To say that Hypertime is 2-B or that DC only has 52 universes IS to be biased and incorrect.
Well, it's certainly not incorrect, since I've objectively substantiated it with nearly 20 direct statements from DC's highest cosmic beings. As far as the word "biased" is concerned, it seems the issue is that you simply don't know what the word bias means.
Hypertime is Low 1-C as a minimum and there are dozens of statements clarifying that the DC Multiverse actually has infinite universes beyond the local 52.
Then post the scans of those statements? Likewise, Perpetua is the topic here, and her own description of her multiverse is that it has a finite 52 universes. Further, the 52 universes aren't "local" the multiverse itself is what is called local. The 52 are called the "known" worlds in Multiversity, but that can be chalked up to the Monitors refraining from concluding there were no more worlds even though they could only find 52. Perpetua rules the Multiverse, so she would know about all of them.
To say that the Sphere of the Gods realms aren't metaphysical when countless statements about that exist on literally every depiction is beyond bias its lying.
Again, a vague reference to some mountain of evidence that has not yet been provided. Countless statements? The only one that has ever been provided is Batman's statement, which is wrong in calling it platonic which already puts its validity into question. Likewise, cool your temper, there's no need to get emotional if the evidence is firmly on your side, as you claim it is.
New Gods come
from a kind of Platonic, archetypal world. Everything you brought up would be contradicted, retconned or irrelevant (since a realm looking physical doesn't mean that it necessarily is.)
First, the world is decidedly not Platonic. Platonism emphasizes two main characteristics of it's concepts are that they are eternal and unchanging. This is not the case for any realm or being in the Sphere, as they were created by either Perpetua or belief itself, and they've changed over time in the case of the New Gods, being recreated by Nix. Further, it's one thing to "look" physical and another for interactions to be based on strictly physical concepts, for physical characters to visit the realm willy nilly.and fight allegedly metaphysical beings, and for the gods of these realms themselves to describe the realms in physical terms. This cannot be overridden by one single character statement or even a handful of them.
We had an entire thread to basically confirm that a timeline is essentially a space-time continuum. I can give you the quote from the guy who made the tiering system if you want.
I mean you can if you want, but you need to prove this is the case in DC comics. This is a purely fictional concept, therefore it's erroneous to apply a hard rule across all verses for how it works. In DC, decidedly not-universal characters have affected and destroyed timelines within a single universe, proving it does not work that way in DC.
Outliers for the league, let's hope they keep being outliers unless we want Low1-C/1-A Superman. In fact Pre-Crisis Supes doesn't even scale to 2-B Darkseid currently due to being considered an outlier.
On what basis is it an outlier for the league rather than a long series of antifeats for the Gods? We can't just call feats we don't like outliers. Many many instances exist of characters going to the Sphere and defeating its natives.
PrinceOfTheMorning's blog. Where it is stated Hypertime does in fact connect all cosmologies/all parts of DC, which can also be seen in Flash War. You could even argue Hypertime binds
The Sphere of The Gods, I am pretty uncertain
The canon creator of Hypertime literally debunks this notion on panel. The number of universes exists independent of Hypertime, proving the cosmologies do not stay forever within Hypertime after being destroyed.
This is further confirmed in the fight between Perpetua and TDK. The imminent end of the multiverse results in the hypertime possibilities dying out, which wouldn't be the case if hypertime maintained the universes despite their destruction in-verse. If it was ever the case, it's clearly been retconned on panel.
Also btw you claim that World Forger is entirely above Hypertime and y'know Perpetua scales to him due to being her son. Yet you also claim Perpetua has to destroy the universes that are a part of Hypertime one by one and that her going to the sixth dimension wouldn't help her get rid of the multiverse. So which is it, is World Forger superior to the multiverse that he created or would he too have to destroy universes one by one? (this isn't even accounting for higher realms)
He's above hypertime in the sense that his perception of the multiverse isn't limited to a single timeline, which means his perception of the multiverse collapsing to 52 universes accounts for the notion that Hypertime keeps the cosmology structures, and debunks it.
Further, Hypertime doesn't contain the multiverse, hypertime is the 4th dimension of the multiverse.
I also think that we are giving the Overvoid's single reality-fiction difference enormous special treatment compared to other fictions in terms of tiering
I would genuinely be hard pressed to support the argument that there is any reality-fiction difference presence in DC. Perpetua and the hands are from the Overvoid, yet clearly consider the lowest beings in DC as "real" and not fictional. The Overvoid literally encroached upon the multiverse when the Source Wall came down, which makes the idea that it is "real" to a "fictional" multiverse difficult to support.
just that the higher tiers of the cosmology remain unchanged. So anything under the Sphere of the Gods gets retconned by these writers and like Deagonx said we see what exactly gets retconned in the comic so we don’t have to guess
Realms from the Sphere and above have likewise decidedly been retconned. There's no reason to think they are immune to it. The Perpetua storyline made a huge retcon to the Sphere, establishing its origin as a realm Perpetua created, first inhabited by the embodiment of the Collective Unconscious -- Hecate -- which was then populated solely by religions and belief systems. Retcons happen at every single level.
Well, speaking as somebody who has actually read a massive amount of stories with these characters, several of the DC and Marvel cosmic entities that we give the highest statistics are not currently portrayed at anywhere near such levels as far as I am aware.
Absolutely agree, and for a good reason. DC writers are absolutely unconcerned with battle boarding or making sure high tiers are "competitive" against the more abstract works of fiction. Concept control and metaphysics quickly become incoherent and unworkable within a story that involves regular physical beings which is one of the reasons why Final Crisis (and much of Morrison's cosmology stories) are considered a slog to read.
A heavy level of emotion is brought to the table by battleboarding fans who are eager for their verse's "top dogs" to be competitive at tiers 0, 1, and 2, even if it requires ignoring tons of evidence to the contrary, and piecing together a handful of character statements across collective decades of continuity and dozens of writers, flying in the face of actual feats, storylines, and well established power systems in the comics.
Again, the notion that DC actually had infinite universes makes Perpetua's storyline incoherent, and if she can destroy infinite universes it makes the fact that she was destroying them one by one, and the fact that she herself said she couldn't, incoherent.
So why fight so hard? It's this simple: the comic both showed us and told us that Perpetua is universal to low multi-universal at best. Who cares if she can fight 3812 or not? Who cares if she can fight The One Above All? Who cares if she can beat Yog-Sothoth? Her storyline is good. That's why we read the comics.
