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laughs in CRT
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Perpetua Downgrade
- Thread starter Deagonx
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The DC cosmology is a topic that affects many characters. What seems to be the rush?
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I want to know the outcome as fast as possible.
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Again, what's the rush?
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I want to know what their current tier will be.
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Yeah, with threads like these, which are for more well known verses, you're not gonna get a definitive result that quickly. Staff needs to give input, there's potentially going to be some debate, and so on. Be patient, it's a virtue.
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I take it that you're trying to make a VS Thread soon.
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Yeah it's not really clear.
That's the name of the game. As storylines develop and characters change, you change tier. If VSBW was around when Dragon Ball Z first came out, they would have to update Goku basically every few months. This is true of any ongoing story, powerlevels tend to change over time.
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You seem to be behind, lucifer 2018 including issues 19 to 24 is released and I have already read it, lol.
No, the events happened in post crisis. Why would I say anything about dates?
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I personally think that here is no solid cosmology foundation for such extreme tiers as High 1-A or 0 for any DC Comics characters, but that can be evaluated later.
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As for High 1-A, I think the most blatant example is https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Leviathan_(The_Unwritten)
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The unwritten isn't canon to DC in vsb (for some reason) plus I do believe that dc has high 1A beings, just have to wait till I get my laptop.
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What about The Filth series?
Rikimarox2
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What was the reason Monitor-Overlord got H1A anyways? Considering the fact there isn't an Infinite 1-A hierarchy, it really seems just like a few levels above baseline.
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I think that's canon. But vsb is vsb, never accepted the enoynimus, so can't see the filth being here.
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You actually can reach high 1A if the trancendense between a certain character is high enough for that special tier.
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What do you mean by the site not accepting the enoynimus?
Rikimarox2
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I know that, but it merely seems like it views them as fiction. That seems just like a one level above them, rather than an entire tier.
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There isn't an enoynimus profile, and I'm pretty sure they disregarded milk wars to be a parody. Not sure tho
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Scaling to the Overvoid.
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Just seeing someone as Fiction is baseline trancendense, but when there's given context to that trancendense it can get higher.
Rikimarox2
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Ah, I messed up. I meant how did The Overvoid get H1A?
Ah okay... and what was the context for The Overvoid?
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I don't know about that. My overvoid scaling is different than vsb's
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From VSB:
High Outerverse level (The Monitor-Mind is the unconscious void of nothingness that lies as the background of all creation, standing utterly devoid of definition, beyond the crumbling ledge of the Source Wall wherein Thought itself ceases to be and all dual concepts are dissolved into unity. Represents the white canvas of the comicbook itself, being the ground of being in which all characters and concepts of DC Comics are drawn in, and acting as the middle ground between the fictional reality occupied by them and the world of the Writer)
The tiering (or the justification) is kinda wonky but seems to scale from the source on this wiki
High Outerverse level (The Monitor-Mind is the unconscious void of nothingness that lies as the background of all creation, standing utterly devoid of definition, beyond the crumbling ledge of the Source Wall wherein Thought itself ceases to be and all dual concepts are dissolved into unity. Represents the white canvas of the comicbook itself, being the ground of being in which all characters and concepts of DC Comics are drawn in, and acting as the middle ground between the fictional reality occupied by them and the world of the Writer)
The tiering (or the justification) is kinda wonky but seems to scale from the source on this wiki
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Good thread. I've tried to made a threat like this one in the past but it had resulted to an upgrade by my fault...
There is however one thing that i disagree with:
''Perpetua's Multiverse Creation was a one time amp''
Her whole power came from the Source, not just the Multiverse Creation ability. The Hands, Perpetua's race, were portrayed to be able to create and destroy a Multiverse and Perpetua should logically scale to them.
Yes, she used the Anti-Crisis Energy the Source entrusted to her to create the Multiverse. At some point, she turned all Humans in the Multiverse into Apex Predators and started to hoard the Crisis Energy, the dark mirror of the Anti-Crisis Energy, from their faith in Doom, allowing her to "Alter the Core of Creation" according to Mar Novu. This is from Justice League #22. When she's nearly at full power, she can destroy one universe at a time and affect Hypertime and At full power, she can create or destroy a Multiverse like the rest of her species and remake the Multiverse in her image.
I agree with the rest though. The 1-A tier is exaggerated for her and her sons.
There is however one thing that i disagree with:
''Perpetua's Multiverse Creation was a one time amp''
Her whole power came from the Source, not just the Multiverse Creation ability. The Hands, Perpetua's race, were portrayed to be able to create and destroy a Multiverse and Perpetua should logically scale to them.
Yes, she used the Anti-Crisis Energy the Source entrusted to her to create the Multiverse. At some point, she turned all Humans in the Multiverse into Apex Predators and started to hoard the Crisis Energy, the dark mirror of the Anti-Crisis Energy, from their faith in Doom, allowing her to "Alter the Core of Creation" according to Mar Novu. This is from Justice League #22. When she's nearly at full power, she can destroy one universe at a time and affect Hypertime and At full power, she can create or destroy a Multiverse like the rest of her species and remake the Multiverse in her image.
I agree with the rest though. The 1-A tier is exaggerated for her and her sons.
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Chasekilleen
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Chase, stop it. He dosen't give one shit about unwritten
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The Leviathan from The Unwritten is definitely High 1-A, but it is not part of the same canon.
My problems lies with that the cosmology of DC Comics does not remotely support that tier, much less tier 0. I also think that we should consider it as one degree of fictional transcendence, as is our usual praxis, and that the current scaling is insanely wanked.
Anyway, can somebody please elaborate about The Filth? I thought that it was an independent work by Morrison, that he once roughly referred to as severe mind-poison unless it is read to the finish, so I have avoided it.
My problems lies with that the cosmology of DC Comics does not remotely support that tier, much less tier 0. I also think that we should consider it as one degree of fictional transcendence, as is our usual praxis, and that the current scaling is insanely wanked.
Anyway, can somebody please elaborate about The Filth? I thought that it was an independent work by Morrison, that he once roughly referred to as severe mind-poison unless it is read to the finish, so I have avoided it.
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From what I have seen and heard is that, there's a realm in filth called the Oversphere, a realm that views the Overvoid/the Paperverse as being merely lower-dimensional, where people can easily retcon, control, create, and dictate the flow of all continuities. The Oversphere is a place within the Crack. Grant Morrison has said that the location of the Crack would be revealed in Issue #12 of the Filth comicline, which shows that the endless excremental plains of The-World-In-The Crack are insignificant to the pen of Greg Feely.
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@Antvasima I think we should remove the writer because the character's tier is out of context. I also think we should make new profiles for Greg freely, enoynimus and such.
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The Filth is sort of connected to the Cosmology Morrison already established in the Core DC Mythos. We should just push that topic to another thread down the line.
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I wasn't aware because the site I usually read them on didnt have them. Nonetheless, the point is that Lucifer is still in canon.
How do you figure this? Because it was published during the post crisis era? That wouldn't necessarily stand to reason, since you just pointed out that Lucifer (2018) isn't taking place in the current era of DC. Likewise, once Lucifer left and created his own multiverse, he would be completely outside the changes of the DC Multiverse.
Fair. We can get into the fine details of it and see what's reasonable. I'm certainly not the type of person to fight for a higher tier just because I like a character/veerse.
In Death Metal, it was said that Super Celestials are entrusted with connective energy to create multiverses. Is there a different scan about this I haven't seen yet? I got caught up with personal stuff while Death Metal was coming out so I didnt read all of it yet.
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@Deagonx spectre volume 4 takes place around post crisis. In this comic, the spectre goes to hell to find the Presence where he meets ramiel and duma. Then he goes to meet lucifer who is sitting on australia's beach chilling. 2018 takes place even prior to this because in volume 17 or 18 or something like that we see lucifer on the beech. 2000 is after 2018, and 2016 is after that
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Again it's this simple. Once Lucifer created his own multiverse, he became temporally separate from the DC multiverse and therefore the crisis events. Also, you should be more thorough in your explanations and fully explain your reasoning and provide scans.
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@Deagonx being not affected by crisis is not big of deal, lol. The sphere of the gods, monitors and beings above the orrery aren't affected by crisis events. Also my argument wasn't that lucifer is not affected by crisis or that he has a multivese but that lucifer was around the time when the local multivese was around 52 Universes. Aswell the size of lucifer's creation is not directly given other than a lillim starting it houses 300 or such world, lucifer saying it's infinte and Mike Carey saying it's a cosmos with different Dimensions in it. You can pick any. Also regarding scans, I currently don't have my laptop where I have my majority of my dc scans and this spectre knowledge is basic af. Spectre meeting lucifer is literally the first thing that comes up if someone ask if that lucifer is canon to DC
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I don't know if there is a different scan.
Death Metal #1 established that the beings like Perpetua used Connective Energy, born from the Source, to create Multiverses.
The name of her species was revealed to be "The Hands" in Death Metal #2. Wally West named the energy used by Perpetua's kind "Connective Energy" only once in Death Metal #1. However, this name was replaced by "Anti-Crisis Energy".
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