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Perpetua “Diminished” State Revision.

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Okay then. I don't mind if we let Perpetua to 2-C, higher with Crisis Energy. Like the Anti-Monitor's tier since both used boosts of energy during their events.
 
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Okay. So have we reached a conclusion here then? And if so, is somebody here willing and able to apply the agreed revisions from this thread?
 
Crisis Energy isn't part of her powers, it had to be gained. So it should affect her AP being just 2-C, higher with Crisis Energy. Honestly, it should be just Universal(higher with Crisis Energy) but I feel people won't agree.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
Crisis Energy isn't part of her powers, it had to be gained. So it should affect her AP being just 2-C, higher with Crisis Energy. Honestly, it should be just Universal(higher with Crisis Energy) but I feel people won't agree.
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No because the Anti-Monitor and the Monitor scale to PC Superman who is 2-C. For a universal Perpetua (without Crisis Energy) who scale to her sons, you'll need to downgrade PC Superman to 3-A or Low 2-C. It's a power scaling chain. Imo PC Superman should be Low 2-C or 3-A given his feats don't seem to match his current tier. They seems more to correspond to be Low 2-C or 3-A tier
 
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Elizio33 said:
No because the Anti-Monitor and the Monitor scale to PC Superman who is 2-C. For a universal Perpetua (without Crisis Energy) who scale to her sons, you'll need to downgrade PC Superman to 3-A or Low 2-C. It's a power scaling chain.
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In the fight, their powers were directed towards each other. They don't actually have the powers to do it unless they specifically focus their powers on something. Perpetua was losing anyways and the Ultra-Monitor only lost due to her achieving her Totality with the help of the Legion of Doom.

I get it but it's not very cohesive to use this chain logic when it doesn't make sense in terms of context within the story. She wasn't even Universal in terms of AP before he had any power boost and her beings as well as her powers should be connected. Tbh, I don't mind downgrading Superman or we don't use the fight as a scaling mechanism.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
In the fight, their powers were directed towards each other. They don't actually have the powers to do it unless they specifically focus their powers on something. Perpetua was losing anyways and the Ultra-Monitor only lost due to her achieving her Totality with the help of the Legion of Doom.

I get it but it's not very cohesive to use this chain logic when it doesn't make sense in terms of context within the story.
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Well, technically, the Ultra-Monitor said that he was equal to Perpetua's power, but was defeated when she regained the power she'd hoarded from the multiverse eons ago. Currently, the Monitor Brothers are 2-C scaling to PC Superman. Ultra-Monitor and Perpetua (without Crisis Energy) scale to the brothers. So, unless the brothers are downgraded to 3-A, Perpetua should be 2-C. If they are downgraded then I'll say that Perpetua should be 3-A, higher with Crisis Energy up to 2-C
 
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Elizio33 said:
Well, technically, the Ultra-Monitor said that he was equal to Perpetua's power, but was defeated when she regained the power she'd hoarded from the multiverse eons ago. Currently, the Monitor Brothers are 2-C scaling to PC Superman and Ultra-Monitor and Perpetua (without Crisis Energy) scale to them. So, unless the brothers are downgraded to 3-A, Perpetua should be 2-C. If they are downgraded then I'll that Perpetua should be 3-A, higher with Crisis Energy up to 2-C
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She was bound to lose. She only kept up with them.

And the second excerpt sounds better. She can't just be Low 2-C at base based on a fight. She didn't have the powers to even destroy Universes before achieving the Totality. If Hawkgirl didn't mess up, Perpetua would have lost there. Plus these beings in their “corporeal” can be hurt by heroes lower than the rating. Superman doesn't just go around with “Low Multiversal” punches.

3-A, higher with Crisis Energy up to 2-C sounds feasible.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
She was bound to lose. She only kept up with them.

And the second excerpt sounds better. She can't just be Low 2-C at base based on a fight. She didn't have the powers to even destroy Universes before achieving the Totality. If Hawkgirl didn't mess up, Perpetua would have lost there. Plus these beings in their “corporeal” can be hurt by heroes lower than the rating. Superman doesn't just go around with “Low Multiversal” punches.

3-A, higher with Crisis Energy up to 2-C sounds feasible.
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Not really since the Ultra-Monitor would need to be 3-A as well. They were equal in power during their fight, before Perpetua regain all but a fraction of the Totality. The Monitor Brothers had to merge to equal her power, meaning she is more powerful than the individual Monitor Brothers who are currently 2-C. 3-A, higher with Crisis Energy up to 2-C is only feasible if the Monitor Brothers are downgraded to 3-A, which in turn is only possible if PC Superman is also downgraded to 3-A. Currently, a 3-A Perpetua wouldn't make any sense if, even without Crisis Energy, she's more powerful than her sons individually.
 
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Elizio33 said:
Not really since the Ultra-Monitor would need to be 3-A as well. They were equal in power during before Perpetua regain all but a fraction of the Totality and the Monitor Brothers had to merge to equal her power, meaning she is more powerful than the individual Monitor Brothers who are currently 2-C. 3-A, higher with Crisis Energy up to 2-C is only feasible if the Monitor Brothers are downgraded to 3-A, which in turn is only possible if PC Superman is downgraded. Currently, a 3-A Perpetua wouldn't make any sense if, even without Crisis Energy, she's more powerful than her sons individually.
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World Foger uses his Hammer and his Anavil to strike out Universes from preexisting ideas. It doesn't naturally come from his powers but rather the Dark Matter Dimension is rich in potential of possibility. Without energy, there is no destroying or creating Universes. They don't naturally do it and I haven't seen any scans or mention of it without the energy, or she would have don't it already.

Also, why are we using Pre-Crisis Superman here? Evidently, the events of the fight are after any Crisis Events excluding Dark Frontier and Metal Wars which happened as is during that time. She was holding them off enough but she wasn't going to win and the Monitors would have won anyway.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
World Foger uses his Hammer and his Anavil to strike out Universes from preexisting ideas. It doesn't naturally come from his powers but rather the Dark Matter Dimension is rich in potential of possibility. Without energy, there is no destroying or creating Universes. They don't naturally do it and I haven't seen any scans or mention of it without the energy, or she would have don't it already.

Also, why are we using Pre-Crisis Superman here? Evidently, the events of the fight are after any Crisis Events excluding Dark Frontier and Metal Wars which happened as is during that time. She was holding them off enough but she wasn't going to win and the Monitors would have won anyway.
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I use PC Superman because base Anti-Monitor scale to him, he defeated him. It's a chain of scaling. If PC Superman is Low 2-C then base Anti-Monitor and Monitor would be Low 2-C to follow the chain. Plus, Mar Novu has his own 2-C feat.
 
Elizio33 said:
I use PC Superman because base Anti-Monitor scale to him, he defeated him. It's a chain of scaling. If PC Superman is Low 2-C then base Anti-Monitor and Monitor would be Low 2-C to follow the chain. Plus, Mar Novu has his own 2-C feat.
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Alright, we can roll with 2-C, higher with Crisis Energy and we just gotta wait to see if the others agree.
 
Okay so here's my suggestion.

Low Multiverse level (Superior to her three children individually and stalemated the Ultra-Monitor), higher with Crisis Energy (Was hoarding Crisis Energy from the multiverse to tear down the Orrery of Worlds universe by universe whose effects echoed backward and forward in time, gradually ending Hypertime's possibilities. Would've restarted the Orrery in her image with Crisis Energy after she's done with the universes defying her ideology) | Low Complex Multiverse level (Comparable to The Hands. Fashioned the cosmological superstructure of the multiverse that exists in four dimensions with the fifth-dimensional imaginary-thought 'blood' between its realms)

We can also add a footnote regarding her feat of gradually ending Hypertime's possibilities which is the collateral damage she caused to the Orrery of Worlds coupled with the destruction of the Source Wall and Perpetua's Justice/Doom War which badly damaged Hypertime. Thus, preventing a Tier 2-B or Tier 2-A based on this feat. It should also be noted that the Darkest Knight was the last straw that burned out the lights of Hypertime, hence why Wonder Woman saw no future when looking forward in time during her battle against him.
 
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The latest suggestion seems good to me.

Also, I do not think that we should retroactively downgrade Pre-Crisis Superman just because comic books almost 40 years later depicted characters who were once comparable or superior to him as less powerful.
 
Thank you for helping out. 🙏🙂

I have done so. Tell me here when you are done please.
 
Okay. Thank you for helping out. 🙏

Are you willing to finish your revision then?
 
Yes. Just one question, should a rate Wonder Woman as 2-C or 2-C, likely Low 1-C like the Darkest Knight?
 
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