A very little revision of Doctor Manhattan

[Elizio33]

From Doctor Manhattan's profile:

High Complex Multiverse level with powers (The Justice League with his powers stalemated Perpetua in a clash which burned out the Sun with Lex Luthor saying Wonder Woman would have won if she hadn't hesitated)

Although this is very good, there should be a little clarification. The Justice League with a fraction of Doctor Manhattan's power stalemated against Perpetua since Doctor Manhattan gave some of his power to the Mobius Chair and some to the boy Clark who was mentioned in Flashpoint Beyond. Other parts of his energies were used to mend the timeline, so I doubt the Justice League was using all of Doctor Manhattan's powers when they fought Perpetua. Even a variant of Bruce Wayne with a power similar to that of Doctor Manhattan but less powerful was powerful enough to worry Perpetua. So the justification should be like this:

(The Justice League with some of his powers stalemated Perpetua in a clash which burned out the Sun with Lex Luthor saying Wonder Woman would have won if she hadn't hesitated)

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Looks fine to me, I agree.

 

[Antvasima]

This seems fine to me as well.

 

[Excellence616]

I agree

 

[LazyMortician]

I'm fine with this.

 

[Elizio33]

To all the people who agree, please know that you agree with Doctor Manhattan > Perpetua by default lol.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

OP looks like a good idea.

 

[Elizio33]

This thread would lead to another question: Is Doctor Manhattan more powerful than the Darkest Knight?

The Justice League, with some of the powers of Doctor Manhattan, stalemated Perpetua wielding all Crisis Energies, Lex Luthor claiming that Wonder Woman would have won if she hadn't hesitated. The Batman Who Laughs had a weaker body of Doctor Manhattan with Crisis Energy collected from the Crisis Worlds of the Dark Multiverse and was only able to kill Perpetua because she was no longer receiving Crisis Energy, but he was, then she became weaker and weaker the more they fought.

So is The Hands > Doctor Manhattan > Darkest Knight > Perpetua more appropriate or The Hands > Darkest Knight > Doctor Manhattan > Perpetua is more accurate ?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

I'm sorry but the scan doesn't mention a fraction of Manhattan’s powers. What was being said was that the Quintessence used the energy that Doctor Manhattan(who is brimming with it) to fight Perpetua. What you're missing comes next as the League didn't just use that but “all connective energy” to fight Perpetua who gathered “all Crisis energy.” This meant it was whatever energy was there with Manhattan and more power of things that fueled connectivity, not Manhattan powers alone.

To give you a better insight. Batman Who Laughs used a Dark Multiverse version and needed to gather Crisis Energy to even battle Perpetual. We are not given how much Manhattan has but just by himself is not enough to warrant anything as you discussed it's not concrete.

 

[Elizio33]

I'm sorry but the scan doesn't mention a fraction of Manhattan’s powers. What was being said was that the Quintessence used the energy that Doctor Manhattan(who is brimming with it) to fight Perpetua. What you're missing comes next as the League didn't just use that but “all connective energy” to fight Perpetua who gathered “all Crisis energy.” This meant it was whatever energy was there with Manhattan and more power of things that fueled connectivity, not Manhattan powers alone.

To give you a better insight. Batman Who Laughs used a Dark Multiverse version and needed to gather Crisis Energy to even battle Perpetual. We are not given how much Manhattan has but just by himself is not enough to warrant anything as you discussed it's not concrete.

The narration does not say that they used other energy sources than those of Doctor Manhattan.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

The narration does not say that they used other energy sources than those of Doctor Manhattan.

It does? The quotation states “you(Diana)” gather all connective while Perpetual gathers “all Crisis energy.” Perpetua doesn't naturally possess Crisis energy and neither does Diana and Quintessence were the ones to take that energy to aid Diana the entire war saga was between Justice and Doom which mirrors Connective and Crisis.

It was not just Manhattan powers alone. The powers of Manhattan were given to the League while Diana harnessed other sources as well.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Let me rehash my argument down to the semantics. Notice how “Crisis Energy” like Connective is born of the Source/Presence. Notice how it's never mentioned as Perpetua “powers” and the energy can stagnate depending on how much of it you use

Manhattan had that accident and given the context would give him his powers. So even if the Quintessence gathered the connective energy to give the League, ultimately it wasn't Manhattan powers, as connective energy comes from uniting all past, present, and future as equal in importance. All Manhattan did was brim the energy, and thus if he used the connective force and there was some remnant, it wouldn't be his power anymore. Not to mention the energy is not quantifiable in powers, just you can get some and lose some.

Darkest Knight scales higher anyway because he has the powers of Manhattan + plus all Crises energy. As for Perpetua, she survived either way, and it was the entire League that possessed all that power against her.

 

[Elizio33]

Let me rehash my argument down to the semantics. Notice how “Crisis Energy” like Connective is born of the Source/Presence. Notice how it's never mentioned as Perpetua “powers” and the energy can stagnate depending on how much of it you use

Manhattan had that accident and given the context would give him his powers. So even if the Quintessence gathered the connective energy to give the League, ultimately it wasn't Manhattan powers, as connective energy comes from uniting all past, present, and future as equal in importance. All Manhattan did was brim the energy, and thus if he used the connective force and there was some remnant, it wouldn't be his power anymore. Not to mention the energy is not quantifiable in powers, just you can get some and lose some.

Darkest Knight scales higher anyway because he has the powers of Manhattan + plus all Crises energy. As for Perpetua, she survived either way, and it was the entire League that possessed all that power against her.

Hmmm. Maybe, but it's still worth saying that the Justice League was only harnessing some of Doctor Manhattan's powers when fighting Perpetua. Doctor Manhattan may not be enough for Perpetua or the Darkest Knight, as a variant of Bruce Wayne from the Dark Multiverse with similar power to Doctor Manhattan was not strong enough to usurp Perpetua. Maybe a footnote would be relevant to add to avoid confusion.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Hmmm. Maybe, but it's still worth saying that the Justice League was only harnessing some of Doctor Manhattan's powers when fighting Perpetua. Doctor Manhattan may not be enough for Perpetua or the Darkest Knight, as a variant of Bruce Wayne from the Dark Multiverse with similar power to Doctor Manhattan was not strong enough to usurp Perpetua. Maybe a footnote would be relevant to add to avoid confusion.

Perhaps, but the idea really just comes down to who has better control over the energy. Given Diana could have won but that’s considering all the members had the power. It should be more so, connective boosted Justice League, rather than Manhattan “powers” or “connective energy.”

 

[Elizio33]

Perhaps, but the idea really just comes down to who has better control over the energy. Given Diana could have won but that’s considering all the members had the power. It should be more so, connective boosted Justice League, rather than Manhattan “powers” or “connective energy.”

Well, the narration clearly said that they used Doctor Manhattan's energies, so it might be better this way: "The Justice League with some of his powers, in conjunction with all Connective Energy in the multiverse, stalemated Perpetua in a clash which burned out the Sun with Lex Luthor saying Wonder Woman would have won if she hadn't hesitated"

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Well, the narration was clearly said that they used Doctor Manhattan's energies, so it might be better this way: "The Justice League with some of his powers, in conjunction with all Connective Energy in the multiverse, stalemated Perpetua in a clash which burned out the Sun with Lex Luthor saying Wonder Woman would have won if she hadn't hesitated"

I think we can end it after Sun. The last part isn’t needed unless we need specifics but that would more so play into that Manhattan is more powerful than Perpetua.

 

[Elizio33]

I think we can end it after Sun. The last part isn’t needed unless we need specifics but that would more so play into that Manhattan is more powerful than Perpetua.

This is why I suggested an explanatory footnote on the page of Doctor Manhattan.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

This is why I suggested an explanatory footnote on the page of Doctor Manhattan.

Yeah, keep it as a footnote not really a feat itself to scale Manhattan.

 

[Elizio33]

And I also think that mentioning that they did so with Doctor Manhattan's power and all connective energies in the multiverse clearly implies that he is not stronger than Perpetua.

 

[Elizio33]

Yeah, keep it as a footnote not really a feat itself to scale Manhattan.

No, but it's still relevant in some ways. It just needs to be explained well to avoid any confusion.

 

[Antvasima]

So have you reached an agreement/conclusion here then?

 

[Elizio33]

Yes

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to apply what was agreed here then.

 

[Elizio33]

Are you okay if I also write a footnote on Doctor Manhattan's profile about his feat?

Do not scale Doctor Manhattan above Perpetua from this. The Justice League not only used some of Doctor Manhattan's energies, but also all the connection energy present in the multiverse when fighting Perpetua. The Batman Who Laughs with the body of a variant of Bruce Wayne having similar powers to Doctor Manhattan needed all crisis energy to usurp Perpetua and Wally West who had some of Doctor Manhattan's energies also needed all crisis energies to kill Perpetua.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine to me at least, but I am not the best person to ask.

 

[Elizio33]

Bump.

 

[Elizio33]

Bump @Antvasima

 

[Antvasima]

Are you okay if I also write a footnote on Doctor Manhattan's profile about his feat?

Do not scale Doctor Manhattan above Perpetua from this. The Justice League not only used some of Doctor Manhattan's energies, but also all the connection energy present in the multiverse when fighting Perpetua. The Batman Who Laughs with the body of a variant of Bruce Wayne having similar powers to Doctor Manhattan needed all crisis energy to usurp Perpetua and Wally West who had some of Doctor Manhattan's energies also needed all crisis energies to kill Perpetua.

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepmeThree @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @MarvelFanatic119 @Catzlaflame @Lightning_XXI @Stefano4444 @LuciferX @Vasco @Excellence616 @Immortalgodd @JohnCenaNation @VeryGoofyToddler @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @Quantu @IdiosyncraticLawyer @PrinceofPein @Maverick_Zero_X @Robo432343 @LordTracer @Alonik @ProfectusInfinity @M3X_2.0 @PrinceStories @Asterotheology @Zensum @Hykuu @KingEzran @Dark-Carioca

What do you think about this?

 

[PrinceofPein]

That is okay

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Sounds good to me.

 

[Excellence616]

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepmeThree @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @MarvelFanatic119 @Catzlaflame @Lightning_XXI @Stefano4444 @LuciferX @Vasco @Excellence616 @Immortalgodd @JohnCenaNation @VeryGoofyToddler @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @Quantu @IdiosyncraticLawyer @PrinceofPein @Maverick_Zero_X @Robo432343 @LordTracer @Alonik @ProfectusInfinity @M3X_2.0 @PrinceStories @Asterotheology @Zensum @Hykuu @KingEzran @Dark-Carioca

What do you think about this?

Make sense

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Since I help with that change then I'll agree with that proposal.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Seems fine

 

[Firestorm808]

I suppose it's okay.

 

[Elizio33]

I think this can be applied then @Antvasima

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that should be fine.

 

[Elizio33]

Yes, that should be fine.

Okay can you unlock the page of Doctor Manhattan please

 

[Elizio33]

I made the edits. Thanks to everyone who helped!