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One Piece High 7-A Field Day (Wano+ Edition)

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Another thing.
(Ignore the Large Mountain Rating if you want to)
KingTempest said:
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Eustass Kid's stated to be At Least Mountain level+. (His profile says likely, whatever).
By my scaling he would be at least Large Mountain via Apoo and Zoro, but we can forget that for now.

Apoo tanked his attack, meaning his dura would scale to Mountain Level+.

And Zoro one shot him, meaning he would upscale.
 
Kin201 said:
I'm pretty sure this is the case. He shouldn't get High 7-A dura from Kizaru. This makes sense to me.
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Yeah I'm fine with the High 7-A proposition to get denied, but my main thing was at least a Mountain level+.

Check my message above, it's another justification for Mountain level+ dura.
 
There is no one shot, Apoo was damaged from Kid and was focused in blocking Hybrid Drake, who is way above himself, it was by no way a 1V1, and iirc even pre timeskip Shishi Sonson is said to use rudimentary levels of haki, so... idk, i really don't understand the way we treat haki.
 
XDragnoir said:
There is no one shot, Apoo was damaged from Kid and was focused in blocking Hybrid Drake, who is way above himself, it was by no way a 1V1, and iirc even pre timeskip Shishi Sonson is said to use rudimentary levels of haki, so... idk, i really don't understand the way we treat haki.
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Apoo had a One Piece random recovery and was perfectly fine.
I can agree that he was off guard, but wasn't he off guard from Kizaru too?

Plus he was fighting them both and he wasn't harmed, so regardless, Zoro (who hit his body while Drake kept hitting his weapon) scales to his dura.
Shishi Sonson wasn't stated to use Rudimentary levels of haki Pre TS, it was crazy because it used Haki in general.
That's why Zoro barely used it post timeskip because he knew how to consciously use haki afterwards for other attacks.
 
KingTempest said:
Did Zoro even get stronger?
From what I know he was just mastering telling Enma "gimme my haki back". In other words, he was controlling the amount of Haki that he used for Enma (since Enma takes mad haki from the user).
He had mad sparring partners, he would've trained with them instead of standing there holding his sword while doing nothing.
And IIRC, the sword he used to hit Apoo wasn't Enma. It looked like Wado.
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Zoro literally said he would become much stronger after getting used to Enma in that same page, and since he was using Enma a few chapters ago, i really doubt there is a big change in strength based in the sword he is using, the haki and arms are still the same after all.
 
What I'm basically seeing is
  1. Apoo should not scale to Kizaru at all, Kizaru completely incapacitated him and took him out.
    1. Not one Supernova was even knocked out from Kizaru's kick. They just got super injured from flying inbetween buildings, but they were all conscious and moaning and such.
    2. My point is that Zoro would upscale off of him, since Zoro knocked him out completely while he survived and was conscious after Kizaru.
    3. Also @Damage, Hawkins was there injured too, he just didn't revive himself since he didn't die.
  2. Downgrade Luffy's dura
    1. Base Luffy has clear dura feats of taking a crap ton of hits from Katakuri, who, by my scaling, is Large Mountain level. He even took hits from Cracker soldiers and Doflamingo, who would be at least Mountain level+.
    2. We can't just say "no" to feats, before someone pops up and makes a CRT requesting the same thing.
  3. Doflamingo's AP does not scale to Bounce-Man Luffy in any way, shape, or form.
    1. I never said it did, I said his Awakened Durability from taking the 2 Handed Culverin with his strings.
  4. That wouldn't make sense since the current rating is mountain level for Fujitora.
    1. Fujitora did a casual feat. You can't scale serious people off of casual feats, that doesn't make sense.
      1. The only reason why we couldn't put it higher is because we had no feats or calcs that gave better results.
        1. I would've given Fujitora "at least" for his current rating since he did a feat with no effort, but they gave him a solid mountain rating. I highly doubt that Oda would want Sanji being new gen Admiral Level.
  5. Zoro post Enma ≠ Zoro pre Enma so he shouldn't scale to Apoo.
    1. Zoro post Enma just learned how to stop getting his haki drained by Oden's sword.
      1. Also, go read that thread where the 3x Asura multiplier was being removed, they talk about how occasionally, Zoro with 1 sword is on par with fighters that match him using 2.
    2. He didn't even have a statement about getting stronger by his crewmates while using Enma afterwards, he was just living.
    3. He used Wado Ichimonji, not Enma. So no.
Damage made a good point about the Apoo "harming" Kizaru point, which I conceded on since it's a valid point. So the Large Mountain for Apoo's Attack Potency has been removed from the OP. We also came to a mini compromise (more people need to agree) that Apoo shouldn't get Large Mountain level Dura.
Other than that, everything stands.
 
What? First, cutting Pica is more impressive than that if we calc both afaik, second, in the next page Hitetsu says Enma cuts more than needed, not more than what would be normally possible to its owner.
 
Fujitora did a casual feat. You can't scale serious people off of casual feats, that doesn't make sense.
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That "casual" feat is the best feat we have for Fujitora. The amount of visible effort we see from him (or lack thereof) shouldn't mean we should assume he is significantly stronger than that, especially since it is a product of his Devil Fruit and not his physical lifting strength.
 
XDragnoir said:
What? First, cutting Pica is more impressive than that if we calc both afaik,
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Zoro cutting Pica got Small City Level+ with 2 hands, 1 head, and 3 swords with full blown haki. Zoro did this by accident with one arm and one sword.
XDragnoir said:
second, in the next page Hitetsu says Enma cuts more than needed, not more than what would be normally possible to its owner.
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Good point, although it wouldn't matter since Zoro learned how to use less Haki in Enma, and his Enma stats wouldn't correlate to his Wado stats (unless you think Zoro's katana in the beginning of the show with crazy haki could do the same thing).
Damage3245 said:
That "casual" feat is the best feat we have for Fujitora. The amount of visible effort we see from him (or lack thereof) shouldn't mean we should assume he is significantly stronger than that, especially since it is a product of his Devil Fruit and not his physical lifting strength.
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I misspoke, my bad.
I meant to say that basically, we have a casual feat for Fujitora.
Fujitora can clearly do stronger feats than that, but nothing shown would give good results, so we're forced to sit there for now.
He should've gotten "at least" since it was casual. We can't assume his rating, so we're stuck with his casual feat.

It's still possible for him to be stronger, so this scaling is basically just saying "he got a casual mountain, he could be up here at full strength, and this scaling means he's stronger than that previous feat".
 
KingTempest said:
Good point, although it wouldn't matter since Zoro learned how to use less Haki in Enma, and his Enma stats wouldn't correlate to his Wado stats (unless you think Zoro's katana in the beginning of the show with crazy haki could do the same thing).
Click to expand...

Enma does not increase it's owner's strength, it takes non-healthy amounts of Haki until you learn to control it better, thus increasing your own control over haki, what makes your haki become stronger, Enma isn't a haki catalyst able to absorb it and release with higher power.
 
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I never claimed that, I claimed that by Zoro's own words that after mastering Enma he would be stronger; this just means his stats are higher than what they were previously.

Also it was a one shot; Despite being a sword draw technique it was never stated to be shishi sonson & rather the same unnamed draw technique he used on Hody Jones. Zoro attacked Apoo from the same direction Drake was attacking from; meaning he attacked an Apoo who's guard was up & cut through his weapon which was able to withstand the constant attacks from Hybrid X Drake.

"Off-guard" only works if the opponent's guard is down or they're being attacked where they're guard isn't up, Neither applies to Apoo.
 
Also, taking damage from Kid was legitimately an off guard hit since Apoo but I don't see anybody arguing that, weird.

Apoo being hit previously before could apply if Apoo was still injured from that encounter, yet, he wasn't.
 
It's pretty clear there's a difference between non-serious Zoro and serious Zoro there.

Previously Apoo was able to block Zoro's attacks and fend off both him and X-Drake for a limited time. When Zoro got pissed off at the sight of Kiku's arm, he just went over to Apoo and one-shot him.
 
I don't think Apoo ever blocked a single attack from Zoro, he just kept dodging
 
I wanted to add these people to the list.
 
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Btw, regarding Jinbe this was while Ace was still considered a rookie and after this point Ace had been trained by Whitebeard during their 100 duals. So Jinbe shouldn't scale to current Ace and rather whatever feats he currently has.
 
I can accept that fully. I'll remove the Jinbe portion and add the rest to the OP.

I found this the other day, but it seems like a stretch.

The other translation says this.
D: About the Whitebeard Pirates, if there are pirates from the "Whitebeard ally groups", is there a possibility of one of them becoming a commander of the real Whitebeard Pirates itself? Or are the commanders all from the real Whitebeard Pirates from the beginning? P.N. amanuts

O: Ok, I'll explain a little about the Whitebeard Pirates. First, captain Whitebeard and the 16 commanders. All 16 commanders, despite numbers and ages have the same rank. All the same. Whitebeard Pirates are just split in 16 groups and the division number does not indicate strength. The 43 ally pirate ships are not any part of the Whitebeard Pirates and are usually all just scattered everywhere living their own little lives. Yet they are loyal to Whitebeard, and help him in desperate times. They are like that. In Ace's case, the Spade Pirates were destroyed, and all the members joined the Whitebeard Pirates, so he was able to become a commander.
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I don't know why, but the OP wiki considers this as strength wise and that they're on equal strength levels.
Ace once stated that Blackbeard could have been a commander when he was recommended for the position, thereby proving that his strength was equivalent with any of the other commanders, which is extremely notable, as he had not yet eaten a Devil Fruit.
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This would be weirdly (I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS) consistent.

Izo is/was a commander of the Whitebeard Pirates who could hurt Kaido. Marco is/was a commander of the Whitebeard Pirates who could match Big Mom.
 
Pretty sure what Oda meant by that is none of the commanders number is ranked by authority/strength.

So Ace being the No.2 commander doesn't grant him more authority or make him stronger than Jozu.
 
It also says equal standing though, so would that mean equal strength? Or would that just mean equal authority?
 
"Standing" usually refers to status, authority, and reputation from what I understand, so I don't think it refers to strength necessarily. Though depending on the context, especially where rank could mean strength, I'd say that could be the case.
 
Marco and Vista's justification for High 7-A in the OP makes no sense to me. Akainu just logia-ed his way around there attacks they didn't harm him at all.

Also the supernovas should not back scale at all from Kizaru when he's fighting casually maybe except from actual AP feats in those specific fights
 
Alright. Since nobody agrees to them backscaling from Kizaru.
  • Scratchmen Apoo
    • Durability: Mountain level+ (Took an attack from Eustass Kid, His tonfas took attacks from a human-allosaurus hybrid form X Drake).
  • X Drake
    • Attack Potency: At least Mountain level+ (Should be at least stronger than Gear Third Luffy, since he could one shot a number, which Luffy had to go Gear Fourth to fight), Large Mountain Level (matched Zoro). Higher with Zoan Form.
  • Wano-Arc Roronoa Zoro
    • Attack Potency: At least Large Mountain Level (Cut through and drew blood from Scratchmen Apooand his tonfas with Ittoryu).
      • He would have to massively upscale from Mountain+ regardless since it was a one shot. The at least is because he only used one sword.
SuperKamiNappa said:
Marco and Vista's justification for High 7-A in the OP makes no sense to me. Akainu just logia-ed his way around there attacks they didn't harm him at all.
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Is this better?
 
While I could see a serious Zoro upscaling to High 7-A, I don't think that's enough for him to warrant an "At least".

I'm pretty sure X-Drake would also just be At least 7-A+.
 
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Agree with damage, at least High 7-A is too much off an increase, even when he's used his weakest sword style. I'm fine for baseline "High 7-A" since it was his weakest sword style.

I'm not sure I agree with X Drake's profile; I guess I do see the justification for his at least 7-A+ since Luffy didn't use gear third and he already should upscale to 7-A+ for pressuring Apoo & scaling to Ulti. But, I'm not sure the Zoro he fought was the same serious Zoro who one shot Apoo.
 
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Damage3245 and CinCameron20:

What are the conclusions so far here?
 
I'll wait till someone can summarize, but I don't see a reason to remove the At least 7-A+, possibly high 7-A ratings so far.
 
Are we really going to upgrade Zoro from 377 to H7A from a single attack against someone who isn't even commander level? But Cracker and Katakuri still need a 7A+ end and Doffy may have his H7A end removed for being mostly unable to damage Boundman? Are we really going to give Zoro stats comparable to Luffy for defeating Apoo? Yeah, Zoro > Katakuri, lets go.
 
XDragnoir said:
Are we really going to upgrade Zoro from 377 to H7A from a single attack against someone who isn't even commander level? But Cracker and Katakuri still need a 7A+ end and Doffy may have his H7A end removed for being mostly unable to damage Boundman? Are we really going to give Zoro stats comparable to Luffy for defeating Apoo? Yeah, Zoro > Katakuri, lets go.
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That seems absurd.
 
XDragnoir said:
Are we really going to upgrade Zoro from 377 to H7A from a single attack against someone who isn't even commander level? But Cracker and Katakuri still need a 7A+ end and Doffy may have his H7A end removed for being mostly unable to damage Boundman? Are we really going to give Zoro stats comparable to Luffy for defeating Apoo? Yeah, Zoro > Katakuri, lets go.
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Can you seriously drop your ad Hominem and constant strawman arguments? You have a tendency to criticize a lot of things due to you not being able to properly comprehend what's being presented, while also acting incredibly condescending.



Firstly it would be due to Zoro massively up scaling from Mountain+, being able to one shot characters who upscale from other Mountain+ characters upon getting remotely serious with a Ittoryu based attack's, and the other styles are stronger.




And we're also proposing getting rid of 7-A+ for Commanders, you seriously need to learn how to read instead of automatically jumping the gun the moment you see "OP upgrades."
 
CinCameron20 said:
The Cracker and Katakuri bit are both wrong. "Punched Gear 4th Luffy to the point he ran away" is wrong as the latter only left due to Gear 4th about to be disabled. Cracker only cut into Luffy's arm via Haki, and the Honey Pretzel only caused a small cut and we don't see it do any more damage.

Doflamingo's "higher with Awakening" is also false since his threads were damaged by Luffy's headbutt while his body could tank through most attacks despite already being wounded. Blocking one attack doesn't automatically boost his thread durability when they were shown tanking ONE strike that his body could withstand without even using Haki.

Don't put false information on the profiles. None of these 3 characters have EVER been shown going equal with Bound-Man in terms of power. If you disagree, prove it.

the 7-A+ rating is not being removed from the profiles because ALL characters who have it get the scaling from either being >>other 7-As like Gear 3rd Luffy, or =/> Doflamingo. The only solid High 7-A is Bound-Man Luffy currently.

Fujitora is NOT getting High 7-A. Jack is 7-A+ and gets the stat from fighting BOTH Fuji + Tsuru and also being suggested as > the Tobi Roppo, who are 7-A+

I'm not going to bother with the other ones like "High 7-A Zoro" because they're just wrong on so many levels. None of this makes any sense and is heavily opinionated.

Why are we scaling Apoo to causing a Logia user to split in two...?
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I agree with @CinCameron20 . I think this thread could focus on a rating for Zoro and then can probably be closed. Also Jack's profile needs an update to 7-A+.
 
XDragnoir said:
Are we really going to upgrade Zoro from 377 to H7A from a single attack against someone who isn't even commander level? But Cracker and Katakuri still need a 7A+ end and Doffy may have his H7A end removed for being mostly unable to damage Boundman? Are we really going to give Zoro stats comparable to Luffy for defeating Apoo? Yeah, Zoro > Katakuri, lets go.
Click to expand...
I'm personally for Katakuri and Cracker not needing 7-A+ since it seems unnecessary and they already showed they scale to the Boundman more than they scale to whatever the 7-A+ shit is.

It would be unfair to limit a character just because they didn't follow the same scaling chain as another, can Zoro never reach High 7-A unless he fights the same opponents Luffy does? Zoro has one shot every 377 megaton character he's fought and now one shot a 550 megaton character; one shotting a 550 megaton is a greater feat than fighting against a possibly High 7-A character imo.
 
Personally I'm fine with Yonko Commanders being "likely High 7-A." since they'd simply downscale from Gear Fourth for being able to harm him and take attacks from him.



The 7-A+ end isn't needed, as they'd scale above Zoro who can one shot other 7-A+ characters, who can shrug off 7-A+ attacks. ( Zoro one shot Appo, who could tank attacks from Kidd.) further support for High 7-A for YC.
 
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