MCU Phase 4 General Discussion Thread

[Lonkitt]

No, they would not. Andrew never got the Arc Reactor Repulsor Whine, neither did Tobey, only Tom did.


Because it's an active amp, though even then I personally myself have issues with this, always did. Iron Man being 8-A with said repulsor blasts and said Arc Reactor shouldn't mean that Electro should have it too, all he uses the reactor for is a near-infinite supply of energy, Stark literally mastered its power use and forged literal 7-B lasers out of it and accidental 8-A explosions from a two-man repulsor clash.

Yeah, there's always been some scaling issues when it comes to the Arc Reactor. Its easy to forget the specific nature regarding its power

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

This? LMAO no, neither Tobey nor Andrew have that signature whine that Iron Man has when he shoots his repulsor blasts, only Tom and Tom alone gets the Repulsor blast (Which you can clearly hear at 5m 42s).

Also no, the 8-A part is not a passive amp, it is an active amp. Electro absorbing energy =/= becoming 8-A automatically unless the charge-up sound is audible.

In case you don't know what the sound is, here you go.

You can literally hear a little whine when his restraining and blasting Andrew.

wasn’t electro already absorbing energy from the arc though?

No, they would not. Andrew never got the Arc Reactor Repulsor Whine, neither did Tobey, only Tom did.


Because it's an active amp, though even then I personally myself have issues with this, always did. Iron Man being 8-A with said repulsor blasts and said Arc Reactor shouldn't mean that Electro should have it too, all he uses the reactor for is a near-infinite supply of energy, Stark literally mastered its power use and forged literal 7-B lasers out of it and accidental 8-A explosions from a two-man repulsor clash.

Why not? If his sucking it’s energy constantly then I don’t see why he wouldn’t be 8-a. And even then wouldn’t they be 8-b at bare minimum considering tobey took a beating from sand man in 3

 

[Propellus]

Why not? If his sucking it’s energy constantly then I don’t see why he wouldn’t be 8-a. And even then wouldn’t they be 8-b at bare minimum considering tobey took a beating from sand man in 3

Tobey literally got stomped by giant sandman lmao and wasn't able to harm him either

 

[Lonkitt]

You can literally hear a little whine when his restraining and blasting Andrew.

You can't

Why not? If his sucking it’s energy constantly then I don’t see why he wouldn’t be 8-a. And even then wouldn’t they be 8-b at bare minimum considering tobey took a beating from sand man in 3

...You do realize the scaling issues there, right? Sandman, who is Base Spider-Man level, having his Giant Form (which wrecked Peter), be the value for Spidey's base stats

 

[DuDE01010]

They gave the strongest Serum to the biggest loser

I will not tolerate John Walker hate

 

[KLOL506]

You can literally hear a little whine when his restraining and blasting Andrew.

Not the same whine. So no.

wasn’t electro already absorbing energy from the arc though?

Absorbing energy =/= weaponizing it into 8-A levels.

Why not? If his sucking it’s energy constantly then I don’t see why he wouldn’t be 8-a. And even then wouldn’t they be 8-b at bare minimum considering tobey took a beating from sand man in 3

Doesn't mean shit if you can't weaponize it for AP like Iron Man and War Machine did.

 

[Coolboy6]

YES. WE DO. The Arc Reactor's signature whine sound is unmistakeable in its usage.

Ok, why is everyone getting so worked up about this? I'm not being stupid here, I just don't know why Electro wouldn't use his full combat power since he wants to kill Spider Man so bad, the dude is angry at him since he felt betrayal from the webhead why wouldn't he be mad? I'm also not talking about his fully charged power. Plus Spider Man still held his own obviously in combat when Electro wasn't using his fully charged power.

No. They aren't. We established that in the threads prior.

What were the exact reasons for it?

 

[Lonkitt]

I will not tolerate John Walker hate

But I will

 

[Coolboy6]

Also to be clear about my thoughts, I feel like Spidey and co should be high 8-C since it’s more consistent than 8-B or 8-A

 

[Lonkitt]

Ok, why is everyone getting so worked up about this? I'm not being stupid here, I just don't know why Electro wouldn't use his full combat power since he wants to kill Spider Man so bad, the dude is angry at him since he felt betrayal from the webhead why wouldn't he be mad? I'm also not talking about his fully charged power. Plus Spider Man still held his own obviously in combat when Electro wasn't using his fully charged power.

We have explained several times by now. I can't tell you why the TASM2 team didn't have Electro use his greater levels of power during the final fight. I can't tell you why the NWH team decided for Electro to specifically use Arc Reactor enhanced blasts less than his casual blasts, but this is what happened. Take it up with Marvel and Sony. Not us

 

[KLOL506]

Ok, why is everyone getting so worked up about this? I'm not being stupid here, I just don't know why Electro wouldn't use his full combat power since he wants to kill Spider Man so bad,

Because he doesn't need to go full-power to kill them anyway, he's just that strong, he was going to do it in TASM2 and he had no Arc Reactor there.

the dude is angry at him since he felt betrayal from the webhead why wouldn't he be mad? I'm also not talking about his fully charged power. Plus Spider Man still held his own obviously in combat when Electro wasn't using his fully charged power.

Spidey didn't hold his own against him, he was getting ragdolled bad. Literally wouldn't have been able to stop him without overloading him.

What were the exact reasons for it?

1. Tony stating Cap would've laid him out flat if he wanted to.

2. Restrained Cap easily knocking back Spidey in pain with a roundhouse kick and even outwrestling his webs

3. Cap withstanding a punch from Quicksilver within the same power metric

4. The other 8-C calcs involving Spidey (Raimi mostly) also falling below the Quicksilver punch but still within 8-C, if Electro's normal lightning is not in the equation

5. NOBODY in the Raimi series ever taking a High 8-C attack head on and surviving, not even the Glider Flames, and we do scale heat to AP and durability, just not in the way you think.

 

[Propellus]

Tobey literally got stomped by giant sandman lmao and wasn't able to harm him either

In fact, not only that, but even normal sandman made Spidey struggle so much until he got access to the black suit

 

[Lonkitt]

Because he doesn't need to go full-power to kill them anyway, he's just that strong, he was going to do it in TASM2 and he had no Arc Reactor there.


Spidey didn't hold his own against him, he was getting ragdolled bad. Literally wouldn't have been able to stop him without overloading him.


1. Tony stating Cap would've laid him out flat if he wanted to.

2. Restrained Cap easily knocking back Spidey in pain with a roundhouse kick and even outwrestling his webs

3. Cap withstanding a punch from Quicksilver within the same power metric

4. The other 8-C calcs involving Spidey (Raimi mostly) also falling below the Quicksilver punch but still within 8-C, if Electro's normal lightning is not in the equation

5. NOBODY in the Raimi series ever taking a High 8-C attack head on and surviving, not even the Glider Flames, and we do scale heat to AP and durability, just not in the way you think.

The lower 8-C calcs from Raimi were also consistent as supporting feats because:

1. Raimi Peter tanking a Pumpkin Bomb point blank while hurt and tired
2. MCU Peter tanking a Pumpkin Bomb point blank with cracked ribs and other injuries
3. New Goblin casually tanking a Pumpkin Bomb and only being injured by one more significantly after Black Suit Peter slapped him around his mansion

Pretty much, guys like MCU Peter are 0.91 tons and have endured lesser 8-C attacks while in injured states

 

[Propellus]

Black Suit Peter slapped him around his mansion

More like bullied

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Tobey literally got stomped by giant sandman lmao and wasn't able to harm him either

You mean after he was already a bit scratched and blooded up from his fight with venom. You mean because his litterly made out of sand

You can't

...You do realize the scaling issues there, right? Sandman, who is Base Spider-Man level, having his Giant Form (which wrecked Peter), be the value for Spidey's base stats

You can it’s at 5:47 specifically

I mean dosen’t tobey take his blows pretty well at a smaller size?

Not the same whine. So no.


Absorbing energy =/= weaponizing it into 8-A levels.


Doesn't mean shit if you can't weaponize it for AP like Iron Man and War Machine did.

i don’t see how it’s not the same whine. The only difference is that you hear it for a second.

electro weaponizes the energy he absorbs soo….

 

[Lonkitt]

You mean after he was already a bit scratched and blooded up from his fight with venom. You mean because his litterly made out of sand



You can it’s at 5:47 specifically

I mean dosen’t tobey take his blows pretty well at a smaller size?

i don’t see how it’s not the same whine. The only difference is that you hear it for a second.

electro weaponizes the energy he absorbs soo….

I feel like you don't know how we scale these guys because this is all incorrect

 

[Propellus]

You mean after he was already a bit scratched and blooded up from his fight with venom. You mean because his litterly made out of sand

Considering how normal Spidey literally had a hard time with sandman in his normal state at his first encounter, and the fact that giant sandman upscales by a lot, what makes you think Spidey would stand a chance against his giant form at all?

 

[KLOL506]

You mean after he was already a bit scratched and blooded up from his fight with venom. You mean because his litterly made out of sand

None of which actually harmed Spidey in those instances as bad as Giant Sandman did.

You can it’s at 5:47 specifically

Literally told you it's not the same whine as Iron Man's repulsors which you can visibly hear being used against Tom at 5:42.

I mean dosen’t tobey take his blows pretty well at a smaller size?

Where the hell is this coming from?

i don’t see how it’s not the same whine. The only difference is that you hear it for a second.

Prolly should get better headphones or get your ears checked, because they're audibly NOT THE SAME. Anyone can instantly recognize Iron Man's repulsors charging up as well as the 5:42 whine that Tom gets to the face which are the exact same, doesn't take rocket science to realize that this isn't the same whine as the one Andrew gets tortured with.

electro weaponizes the energy he absorbs soo….

Yeah no I'm gonna have to stop you right there.

That weaponized energy is not a passive amp, it's an active amp, and it also emerges from both his arms and chest blasting in unison. Every other attack he landed on Tobey and Andrew were not of that type and Tobey was just straight up a one-armed blast without the Arc Reactor ever lighting up on his chest, so you can toss that argument right out.

 

[Coolboy6]

Because he doesn't need to go full-power to kill them anyway, he's just that strong, he was going to do it in TASM2 and he had no Arc Reactor there.

If Electro wanted Peter 3 to be instantly dead, then he would’ve gone full charge immediately. Electro wanted to beat Spider-Man himself so he used his full “in combat” power (High 8-C value)

5. NOBODY in the Raimi series ever taking a High 8-C attack head on and surviving, not even the Glider Flames, and we do scale heat to AP and durability, just not in the way you think.

Glider flames are dura Neg since it turned Sandman’s arm into glass despite him being 8-B. Heck, Peter 2 was still able to fight after multiple hits from Giant Sandman. I wonder if Giant Sandman slamming Peter 2 with his fist can be calced somehow

 

[Lonkitt]

If Electro wanted Peter 3 to be instantly dead, then he would’ve gone full charge immediately. Electro wanted to beat Spider-Man himself so he used his full “in combat” power (High 8-C value)

We've debunked his usage of his greater values so many times now. Simply saying he wanted Peter dead isn't enough given what has been portrayed. Like I said. Take that up with Marvel and Sony, not us. We didn't make that choice

Glider flames are dura Neg since it turned Sandman’s arm into glass despite him being 8-B. Heck, Peter 2 was still able to fight after multiple hits from Giant Sandman. I wonder if Giant Sandman slamming Peter 2 with his fist can be calced somehow

Peter 2 was on his death bed after multiple hits

 

[Propellus]

And also, Sandman would've killed Spidey anyways if Harry didn't save him

 

[Lonkitt]

Raimi's intention was pretty clear with that scene, yeah. No way Peter would've survived more

 

[Newendigo]

Once again, not a simple one-on-one

Yes, it is as simple.

It certainly doesn't. If that were the case, Black Widow would be as skilled as Thor. That would also mean the two other Spider-Men would be as skilled as MCU Peter, which they are not (the Spider-Men are equal in stats of course, but skill is a different story)

Which is why I said in this case it is, because we have two individuals of equal strength fighting a single one who is stronger, on hand to hand, is a isolated brawl in which the twomust directly keep with each other movements to take advantage over the enemy.

And Toby and Andrew can perfectly be around the same level of skill with Tom's Spider-Man when it comes to web swinging and fighting style, experience is another thing.

Bucky performed significantly less effective against Iron Man than Steve did. The fact that the climax of that movie is Steve preventing Bucky from being capped by Tony should support that as well

Of course if you are going to ignore the entire context of the fight and instead reduce it to just the results; bucky lost, Steve won, ergo Steve is better.

I can keep rebutting your points but if you want to call it quits I'm on.

 

[KLOL506]

If Electro wanted Peter 3 to be instantly dead, then he would’ve gone full charge immediately.

He actually did, BY LITERALLY ROARING INTO HIS FACE. Only reason that didn't work is because 1: Spidey's suit was insulated, and 2: He was on the ground, which negs the electrical energy output due to a thing called grounding.

Electro wanted to beat Spider-Man himself so he used his full “in combat” power (High 8-C value)

He didn't go red per his ammeter so no.

Glider flames are dura Neg since it turned Sandman’s arm into glass despite him being 8-B.

Giant Sandman is only 8-B in NWH.

Also getting glassed by extreme heat isn't dura neg, that's how sand works IRL.

Heck, Peter 2 was still able to fight after multiple hits from Giant Sandman.

Final blow would've killed him so that's not saying much.

I wonder if Giant Sandman slamming Peter 2 with his fist can be calced somehow

Proportions too wonky to measure appropriately.

 

[Lonkitt]

Yes, it is as simple.

Not really. There were other factors to the fight, whereas the final one was one-on-one, no additional factors, with Steve winning while holding back

Which is why I said in this case wait it is, because we have two individuals of equal strength fighting a single one who is stronger, on hand to hand, is a isolated brawl in which the twomust directly keep with each other movements to take advantage over the enemy.

And Toby and Andrew can perfectly be around the same level of skill with Tom's Spider-Man when it comes to web swinging and fighting style, experience is another thing.

Cap and Bucky are well coordinated, but certainly not equal in skill. Again, the fight makes it clear that Steve's gotta keep Tony away from Bucky. Bucky only manages to be as successful as he was because Steve picked up the slack

Of course if you are going to ignore the entire context of the fight and instead reduce it to to just the results; bucky lost, Steve won, ergo Steve is better.

I can keep rebutting your points but if you want to call it quits I'm on.

I'm not reducing the fight to that. I'm telling you how it is. Bucky was being chased like prey in that fight. Steve had to play saviour. Besides, its not like Bucky, one-on-one with Iron Man, was such a menace that an A.I. had to butt in to help

I'd recommend not doing the "feel free to quit" thing. Comes off as really cocky

 

[Coolboy6]

We've debunked his usage of his greater values so many times now. Simply saying he wanted Peter dead isn't enough given what has been portrayed. Like I said. Take that up with Marvel and Sony, not us. We didn't make that choice

And I’ve disagreed with this so many times and im sick of saying why over and over again so if you want me to stop, then so b

Peter 2 was on his death bed after multiple hits

Ok then tell me why he was still fighting?

He actually did, BY LITERALLY ROARING INTO HIS FACE. Only reason that didn't work is because 1: Spidey's suit was insulated, and 2: He was on the ground, which negs the electrical energy output due to a thing called grounding.

…do you really think I’m stupid? Chill tf out man, I’m ******* sick of everyone being mad at me here for adding on to the ******* conversation. I can’t even say shit here without someone either clowning on me for it, or acting like I’m the stupidest person on earth which obviously I’m not

He didn't go red per his ammeter so no.

I thought his meter going red was his fully charged power? Or do I just remember it wrong?

Giant Sandman is only 8-B in NWH.

Also getting glassed by extreme heat isn't dura neg, that's how sand works IRL.

So, it’s still dura neg to sand only I guess

Final blow would've killed him so that's not saying much.

Still, the fact that he did survive at all is impressive

Proportions too wonky to measure appropriately.

Ok

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I feel like you don't know how we scale these guys because this is all incorrect

Ok then please enlighten me

Considering how normal Spidey literally had a hard time with sandman in his normal state at his first encounter, and the fact that giant sandman upscales by a lot, what makes you think Spidey would stand a chance against his giant form at all?

Wasn’t that because his litterly made out of sand so he couldn’t hurt him regardless of size. Not that well since he littlery can’t hurt him regardless without water.

None of which actually harmed Spidey in those instances as bad as Giant Sandman did.


Literally told you it's not the same whine as Iron Man's repulsors which you can visibly hear being used against Tom at 5:42.


Where the hell is this coming from?


Prolly should get better headphones or get your ears checked, because they're audibly NOT THE SAME. Anyone can instantly recognize Iron Man's repulsors charging up as well as the 5:42 whine that Tom gets to the face which are the exact same, doesn't take rocket science to realize that this isn't the same whine as the one Andrew gets tortured with.


Yeah no I'm gonna have to stop you right there.

That weaponized energy is not a passive amp, it's an active amp, and it also emerges from both his arms and chest blasting in unison. Every other attack he landed on Tobey and Andrew were not of that type and Tobey was just straight up a one-armed blast without the Arc Reactor ever lighting up on his chest, so you can toss that argument right out.

Cool that doesn’t change the fact he was already hurt prior

Wasn’t even directed at you hear but whatever.

his fight with him in the moving vehicle

It litterly is, this one just didn’t get the whole charge thing. You even get some simalar when Tom gets shot agian

I don’t see why he can’t just blast it out of his arms without the reactor considering his draining it constantly . The reactor is constantly light up wdym?

 

[Propellus]

In fact, why are we even suggesting that peter should scale to giant sandman when it's explicitly clear that giant sandman is way stronger?

 

[Lonkitt]

…do you really think I’m stupid? Chill tf out man, I’m ******* sick of everyone being mad at me here for adding on to the ******* conversation. I can’t even say shit here without someone either clowning on me for it, or acting like I’m the stupidest person on earth which obviously I’m not

I'm not trying to start anything, but none of us are getting mad. You seem to be getting the most angry here. I say this with no intent to escalate anything further

 

[Lonkitt]

Not really. There were other factors to the fight, whereas the final one was one-on-one, no additional factors, with Steve winning while holding back

Cap and Bucky are well coordinated, but certainly not equal in skill. Again, the fight makes it clear that Steve's gotta keep Tony away from Bucky. Bucky only manages to be as successful as he was because Steve picked up the slack

I'm not reducing the fight to that. I'm telling you how it is. Bucky was being chased like prey in that fight. Steve had to play saviour. Besides, its not like Bucky, one-on-one with Iron Man, was such a menace that an A.I. had to butt in to help

I'd recommend not doing the "feel free to quit" thing. Comes off as really cocky

I also forgot to note. I wasn't referring to the experience of the Spider-Men. I was talking about how MCU Spidey was far more skilled combatively than his older selves

 

[Coolboy6]

I'm not trying to start anything, but none of us are getting mad. You seem to be getting the most angry here. I say this with no intent to escalate anything further

Then why was Klol using CAPS IN CERTAIN PARTS?

 

[Lonkitt]

A lot of us do that for emphasis. I've done it too, but it doesn't mean I'm angry

 

[Lonkitt]

 

[Propellus]

I hope it's the actual real FOX professor X this time

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

In fact, why are we even suggesting that peter should scale to giant sandman when it's explicitly clear that giant sandman is way stronger?

And he took multiple blows from him no? I mean part of tobey’s reasoning for his dura is taking a pumpkin bomb straight to the face even though he wasn’t looking spectacular afterwards

 

[Lonkitt]

And he took multiple blows from him no? I mean part of tobey’s reasoning for his dura is taking a pumpkin bomb straight to the face even though he wasn’t looking spectacular afterwards

Scaling Base Spider-Man to a character narratively shown to be far stronger than him. Not how this works. Also Peter was injured before tanking that Bomb. Pumpkin Bombs are supporting feats for the higher value of 0.91 that the Spideys scale to. Pumpkin Bombs are usually endured by characters when they're in weakened states and people forget this all the time

I hope it's the actual real FOX professor X this time

It really depends on what angle Marvel's taking here. We're still fairly in the dark on the X-Men plans

 

[Propellus]

And he took multiple blows from him no?

This is not how it works at all. You don't scale to characters who would completely stomp you

 

[RoTt35]

Scaling Spiderman to giant Sandman would have the same reasoning as scaling Loki to Hulk

 

[Propellus]

Scaling Spiderman to giant Sandman would have the same reasoning as scaling Loki to Hulk

Exactly

 

[Lonkitt]

Scaling Spiderman to giant Sandman would have the same reasoning as scaling Loki to Hulk

This is downplay. Loki to Thanos moments before having his neck snapped