MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread

[Reyne]

I wonder if US Agent's new shield will be made of the same compound as Red Guardian's own. Whatever it is, it's somehow able to dampen kinetic attacks like vibranium can.

Proto adamantium?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I wonder if US Agent's new shield will be made of the same compound as Red Guardian's own. Whatever it is, it's somehow able to dampen kinetic attacks like vibranium can.

Proto adamantium?

Considering the idea that adamentium in the MCU seems to be made from Tiamut's remains, I don't see why the US wouldn't give one of the members of their own Suicide Squad such a powerful tool

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Just realized there'll be another Eternals episode. Wonder what it'll be about since judging by the title, the Emergence does happen this time. I'd really like it if they showed new Eternals like Zuras (probably my favorite Eternals). And of course more Celestials feats and powers (and of course more for my boy Arishem)

Hope Zeus will have nice feats to (maybe he'll appear in the Eternals episode, would be a nice nod to the Eternals - Olympians relationship in the comics)

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Oh crap… I just realized Odin technically has a Power Nullification Resistance feat. It was hiding in plain sight!

Loki didn’t revert to his Jotunheim form in the TVA meaning Odin’s Magic wasn’t nullified.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Oh crap… I just realized Odin technically has a Power Nullification Resistance feat. It was hiding in plain sight!

Loki didn’t revert to his Jotunheim form in the TVA meaning Odin’s Magic wasn’t nullified.

That's actually hilarious

 

[Raincutter]

Have the 5-A changes been applied/accepted? I've got a draft for a CRT to scale Hulk to them, but I don't wanna post too soon Iron Man and Thor both 5-A but somehow the guy they're scaling from is still at 6-B

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Have the 5-A changes been applied/accepted? I've got a draft for a CRT to scale Hulk to them, but I don't wanna post too soon Iron Man and Thor both 5-A but somehow the guy they're scaling from is still at 6-B

Is this based on the new season of What If?

 

[Raincutter]

Is this based on the new season of What If?

No, it's upscaling from a statements that Rocket can create planet busting weapons but considered Thanos impossible to beat, and him tanking the IG power surge

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

No, it's upscaling from a statements that Rocket can create planet busting weapons but considered Thanos impossible to beat, and him tanking the IG power surge

Just read through the CRT. Wild

 

[Raincutter]

**** it imma post it

 

[Raincutter]

Here

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Where's the link?

 

[RoTt35]

By making all the characters scale to 5-A the only thing we are going to achieve is that the feat will be considered an outlier for everyone

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Just watched the first two episodes of What If S3. Super strong entries.

 

[Naeem0304]

Something big (the comic book is linked here):

When teenager Gwen Stacy suits up in her synthetic symbiotic suit and web-shooters, she gains amazing powers: a "Spider-Sense" that warns her of danger, the ability to stick to walls with her adhesive finger tips and toes, the proportional speed and strength of a spider, and the ability to throw and swing from webs, she also is a frequent traveler of the Multiverse, often landing in Earth-616. But recently Gwen had to flee her home, Earth-65, permanently relocate to Earth-616, and abandon her life as a super hero, but you may still know her as... Spider Gwen: The Ghost Spider. Gwen Stack has traveled to other dimensions, battled clones, and saved Dazzler from the deranged scientist and super-fan Bruce Banner of Earth-65. Now she's a teenager girl without a past and with an uncertain future as a newly permanent resident of Earth-616.

Now... This is what Ouroboros (who's from the MCU series Loki) said to Gwen while in Earth-616:

OB: First off, let me say you're not in trouble... thought you did breach almost all of the terms that were required for you to be placed under the protection of the T.V.A. in less than a week.

Gwen says this:

T.V.A. stands for the Time Variance Authority. They're a group of annoyingly bureaucratic nerds in charge of monitoring all of the different realities throughout time and space.

And the TVA was the reason for why Gwen was sent to Earth 616:

OB: We considered that was a risk-- your relationships with the heroes of this earth-- when we chose this location... but...

And OB was able to use the tempad to travel from the comics 616 universe back to the TVA

So for starters, the TVA would have 1-A range, and Gwen stated verbatim the TVA "monitors all of the different realities throughout time and space".

And lastly, this is what OB said:

OB: I need to get back... do Damage Control and readjust our plan given today's events.

This is all official confirmation that the TVA can travel to the 616 Multiverse and possibly affect 616.

Flashforward to the TVA comic, and this is what Gwen says:

Gwen: I'm actually hiding out here after an incident on my home timeline...

Onto the next page, Miss Minutes says this:

Come on. We have a serious PR problem-- (responds to OB's question next) Because we used to prune entire timelines in the name of the one sacred timeline. Then you and your buddy figured out that the timekeepers, the one calling the shots, weren't real.

And Gwen continues later on by saying

For all anyone here knows, I don't have a place on the timeline anymore. But OB and I know the truth. I'm hiding here. And since I don't do "lie low" very well... we figured I might as well be useful.

For context, this is referencing OB sending Gwen to comics 616, and Gwen just flat out said "I don't have a place on the timeline anymore."

That 100% confirms comics 616 is a timeline in the MCU.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Something big (the comic book is linked here):



Now... This is what Ouroboros (who's from the MCU series Loki) said to Gwen while in Earth-616:


Gwen says this:

And the TVA was the reason for why Gwen was sent to Earth 616:

And OB was able to use the tempad to travel from the comics 616 universe back to the TVA

So for starters, the TVA would have 1-A range, and Gwen stated verbatim the TVA "monitors all of the different realities throughout time and space".

And lastly, this is what OB said:



This is all official confirmation that the TVA can travel to the 616 Multiverse and possibly affect 616.

Flashforward to the TVA comic, and this is what Gwen says:



Onto the next page, Miss Minutes says this:



And Gwen continues later on by saying

For context, this is referencing OB sending Gwen to comics 616, and Gwen just flat out said "I don't have a place on the timeline anymore."

That 100% confirms comics 616 is a timeline in the MCU.

That is insane. And doesn't make too much sense given the established cosmology but whatever

1-A TVA ig so that's cool

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

I hope they explain further why the MCU TVA never interferer in any of the comic conflicts that scale way higher than they themselves logically do

 

[Naeem0304]

That is insane. And doesn't make too much sense given the established cosmology but whatever

1-A TVA ig so that's cool

Would also buff up Loki too since it's established he's above what the TVA can do, along with He Who Remains and possibly Alioth too.

 

[Naeem0304]

I hope they explain further why the MCU TVA never interferer in any of the comic conflicts that scale way higher than they themselves logically do

The comic explains that the TVA is still finding new agents (it references the part where Miss Minutes and Rennslayer killed some of them in Season 2) and it's after Deadpool and Wolverine (Deadpool's picture is in one of the comic panels) so they are pretty much in a poor spot. Plus, they seem to be concerned with taking down variants of Kang; probably for good reason too.

 

[Raincutter]

Would this make K.E.V.I.N TOAA tier for seeing the cosmology as fiction?

 

[darkphantom9805]

Would this make K.E.V.I.N TOAA tier for seeing the cosmology as fiction?

Above him as Kevin takes place at Disney head quarters toaa is still inside the comic itself

 

[Excellence616]

Above him as Kevin takes place at Disney head quarters toaa is still inside the comic itself

TOAA is technically writers.

 

[darkphantom9805]

TOAA is technically writers.

he can’t be the writer as he’s still in the comic itself at best in universe represention of one why Kevin exists outside kevin is also the head guy at Disney meaning kevin > writer

 

[Excellence616]

he can’t be the writer as he’s still in the comic itself at best in universe represention of one why Kevin exists outside kevin is also the head guy at Disney meaning kevin > writer

Well since they are part of Marvel comics, they would have to follow Marvel comic rules which is all MCU timelines would be a part of Eternity and TOAA being the superior.


Regardless, TOAA is still the writer.

why Kevin exists outside kevin is also the head guy at Disney meaning kevin > writer

This has already being debunk by Ultima

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Yeah Narrative wise it doesn't make sense for TOAA to be surpassed by KELVIN.

That being said, it's pretty much inarguable to try and say that the MCU and Comics aren't in the same Multiverse at this point. So, as a result: 1-A MCU Top-Tiers/God-Tiers (Top-Tiers being Uatu, Evil Strange [I HATE saying that so much but they made him that way in the end so-], and Infinity Ultron. God Tiers being GoS Loki , What-If Scarlet Witch with the Infinity Gauntlet since she canonically affected all timelines, and KEVIN for being above all of them)

Scarlet Witch will end up with a range feat whether you like it or not sadly. I'm not getting into whether she gets upgraded from this in any other way nope. Spot gets an range upgrade as well from canonically being able to use his portals to jump timelines. Kahhori also gets a range upgrade thanks to her feat in the comics.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Well since they are part of Marvel comics, they would have to follow Marvel comic rules which is all MCU timelines would be a part of Eternity and TOAA being the superior.

Possibly but there’s 2 eternity Mcu and comics every abstract has a Mcu version so who do we think is superior??? Why do we assume comics are if both are representing their thing why should Mcu submit to comic rules and not the other way around

also kevin is superior to that anyway the multiverse only exists because Kevin allows it via plot he controls everything such is the power of a Disney executive

This has already being debunk by Ultima

Not it wasn’t that entire thread was it was just a reference so it doesn’t count but if comics takes place in the multiverse then it’s not a reference and that’s actually Disney head quarters which means they transcend the comics

 

[darkphantom9805]

Yeah Narrative wise it doesn't make sense for TOAA to be surpassed by KELVIN.

Yes it does because 1 lives at irl Disney head quarters the other lives as a comic book character in a comic who is below the actual people drawing him

Scarlet Witch will end up with a range feat whether you like it or not sadly. I'm not getting into whether she gets upgraded from this in any other way nope. Spot gets an range upgrade as well from canonically being able to use his portals to jump timelines. Kahhori also gets a range upgrade thanks to her feat in the comics.

Everyone gets a upgrade ultron stated to the watcher the boundaries of the multiverse are irrelevant to people his tier kahhori only has the power of 1 infinity stone let alone all 6 and the stones are stronger together then individually as they amp each other when combined

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Are we...are we really discussing the original comics where Marvel itself was born being a part of the MCU, which was born FROM Marvel comics rn and saying comcis are inferior to the MCU?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Why do we assume comics are if both are representing their thing why should Mcu submit to comic rules and not the other way around

Because the MCU is just an adaptation of Marvel comics I guess. The MCU only exists because the comics exist in the first place. Without the comics, Disney wouldn't be writing stuff about Marvel.

 

[Naeem0304]

...Besides the extra stuff about KEVIN and all, is all the presented evidence enough for CRT creation for 1-A MCU?

The bulk of the confirmation comes from the Gwen Stacy/Spider Gwen comic, with the new TVA comic supporting it.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Kevin exists outside kevin is also the head guy at Disney meaning kevin > writer

I mean, unless Disney officially retcons everything about Marvel comics itself, it doesn't mean anything. Having higher authority in the real world doesn't magically erases everything established by a lore. The original writer, the one who created the story, is the ultimate authority, they established the rules of what they've been writing. Warner's boss is far higher than JK Rowling in terms of jobs and authority, that doesn't change the fact Rowling is the THE authority when it comes to what is canon to Harry Potter and what's not. Same for H.P. Lovecraft or the writer of Moby Dick. Or what George Lucas established in SW. The words of the original writer of a story matters more in terms of lore and rules than those of the owner that came later to control their work. Irl, you just can't erase everything that's been established.

Unless of course they decide to retcon everything. Which would mean going against everything Marvel has been since its creation. And fans from the entire world plus non-fans would massively gather against that (and I would definitely to, f*** Disney and their attempts to own everything, they already own too many things and have too much power and influence over culture itself, no way they're destroying (because that's exactly what making K.E.V.I.N the supreme being in Marvel would be) Stan Lee and countless other writers's decades of dedication and work to create such a good verse just to make money and say "We are above everything and everyone, WE decide and you shut the hell up").

 

[ArkhamDC06]

...Besides the extra stuff about KEVIN and all, is all the presented evidence enough for CRT creation for 1-A MCU?

The bulk of the confirmation comes from the Gwen Stacy/Spider Gwen comic, with the new TVA comic supporting it.

I think so? I mean, it's MASSIVE gamble and a GIGANTIC upgrade that might cause incredible uproar (and cause the wiki's reputation to sink even more) and what we have here might not be enough to have succeed, we might need to get much more.

....BUT I guess making a CRT is technically "harmless" and this is already a good start so...let's go?

 

[Naeem0304]

I think so? I mean, it's MASSIVE gamble and a GIGANTIC upgrade that might cause incredible uproar (and cause the wiki's reputation to sink even more) and what we have here might not be enough to have succeed, we might need to get much more.

....BUT I guess making a CRT is technically "harmless" and this is already a good start so...let's go?

Okay. Thank you for this response What I'll do is look around for some interviews with the authors for both the Gwen and Kahhori comics; if they mention any big names or official stuff regarding the comics intertwining into the MCU than I'll make note of it.

I was watching a podcast with the dude who made the Kahhori comic (he also worked on What If Seasons 1-3) and he said that he was officiated by someone at Marvel Entertainment (who works in the Comics Department) to get the go ahead to bring his MCU character into the comics universe.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I think so? I mean, it's MASSIVE gamble and a GIGANTIC upgrade that might cause incredible uproar (and cause the wiki's reputation to sink even more) and what we have here might not be enough to have succeed, we might need to get much more.

....BUT I guess making a CRT is technically "harmless" and this is already a good start so...let's go?

WAIT. We have more than enough evidence on the comics side, but we do need evidence on the MCU's side to reference the Comics, so it's a Two-way canon. If anyone can find evidence of that before the thread is made that'd be appreciated. .

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Okay. Thank you for this response What I'll do is look around for some interviews with the authors for both the Gwen and Kahhori comics; if they mention any big names or official stuff regarding the comics intertwining into the MCU than I'll make note of it.

I was watching a podcast with the dude who made the Kahhori comic (he also worked on What If Seasons 1-3) and he said that he was officiated by someone at Marvel Entertainment (who works in the Comics Department) to get the go ahead to bring his MCU character into the comics universe.

PLEASE get that and add it to the evidence. That would be invaluable.

 

[Naeem0304]

WAIT. We have more than enough evidence on the comics side, but we do need evidence on the MCU's side to reference the Comics, so it's a Two-way canon. If anyone can find evidence of that before the thread is made that'd be appreciated. .

I want to ask you something, because of this particular thing I found (from the Art of Deadpool and Wolverine):

Deadpool's tour through the comic book history of Wolverine continues with Weapon X from the dystopian alternate reality of the fan-favorite "Age of Apocalypse" event from 1995.

It does go onto say this though (in the second paragraph, which kind of makes this a bit confusing):

Fellow Concept Illustrator John Staub was a big fan in particular of how comic book superstar Joe Madurera drew the AoA Weapon X. "For my version, though, I thought it would be really interesting to make him sort of like a cyborg, with mechanical outlines across his body," Staub says. "As if the experimentation carried out on him went beyond just his bones and affected the rest of his body."

I say that point C is confusing because now I'm wondering if it's not actually the comic version of this character in live action format, but the statement "tour through the comic book history" could mean one of two things.

If this seems too wonky (or literally just an homage, which it sounds like to me) then we can find something else.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

WAIT. We have more than enough evidence on the comics side, but we do need evidence on the MCU's side to reference the Comics, so it's a Two-way canon. If anyone can find evidence of that before the thread is made that'd be appreciated. .

Yeah, true. Again, it's a MASSIVE goal so this must be rocketproof. Everything is needed.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I want to ask you something, because of this particular thing I found (from the Art of Deadpool and Wolverine):

Proooobably best to find something else. That sort of contradicts it being the true variant from the comics.

Yeah, true. Again, it's a MASSIVE goal so this must be rocketproof. Everything is needed.

Agreed. IF the crossover standards only required just one of the verses officially confirming the crossover is canon then we'd be golden right now, but because of how our Crossover standards work we need to either:
- Have the MCU confirm it's canon to them.
OR
- Have the MCU show that the Marvel Comics are a part of their verse.

If we have evidence of both that'd be huge, but we really only need one or the other.

 

[Naeem0304]

Proooobably best to find something else. That sort of contradicts it being the true variant from the comics.


Agreed. IF the crossover standards only required just one of the verses officially confirming the crossover is canon then we'd be golden right now, but because of how our Crossover standards work we need to either:
- Have the MCU confirm it's canon to them.
OR
- Have the MCU show that the Marvel Comics are a part of their verse.

If we have evidence of both that'd be huge, but we really only need one or the other.

Gotcha boss. Last thing I want to ask. Are statements from podcasts/interviews (even from smaller youtube channels with only 1k subscribers) with the authors or other people in charge of this stuff fair to use as evidence? I can just relisten to the podcasts for the two authors and write down some important notes, then run it back over here to see if it's good.

But anyways, I do appreciate you, @ArkhamDC06, @ThePrimalHunter, @NaturalDestroyer , @darkphantom9805 and @Excellence616 for the discussion and support on this today. (Happy Christmas Eve for y'all too)

 

[darkphantom9805]

WAIT. We have more than enough evidence on the comics side, but we do need evidence on the MCU's side to reference the Comics, so it's a Two-way canon. If anyone can find evidence of that before the thread is made that'd be appreciated. .

We already have it marvel comics is shown in spidey verse