MCU Phase 4 General Discussion Thread

[RoTt35]

This is downplay. Loki to Thanos moments before having his neck snapped

Spiderman and Captain America also took blows from Thanos so they all downscale from him and are 6-B

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Scaling Base Spider-Man to a character narratively shown to be far stronger than him. Not how this works. Also Peter was injured before tanking that Bomb. Pumpkin Bombs are supporting feats for the higher value of 0.91 that the Spideys scale to. Pumpkin Bombs are usually endured by characters when they're in weakened states and people forget this all the time

It really depends on what angle Marvel's taking here. We're still fairly in the dark on the X-Men plans

Then what about peters fight with venom before getting beat on by sandman?

This is not how it works at all. You don't scale to characters who would completely stomp you

if that’s the case then sandy should have one shot peter. Besdies he was already bloody from his fight with venom

 

[Lonkitt]

Then what about peters fight with venom before getting beat on by sandman?

Thats called Eddie torturing Peter before deciding he should kill him (before promptly being interrupted by New Goblin)

if that’s the case then sandy should have one shot peter. Besdies he was already bloody from his fight with venom

I feel like you're missing on the part where you're saying Base Sandman scales to his stronger self

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Thats called Eddie torturing Peter before deciding he should kill him (before promptly being interrupted by New Goblin)

I feel like you're missing on the part where you're saying Base Sandman scales to his stronger self

Ya that still doesn’t invalidate the fact that Peter was fresh before fighting sandy

Oh would he do that exactly? He never did anywhere near the amount of damage his giant self did

 

[Newendigo]

Hey, I gave the " do you want to quit" because I presumed you were getting tired, since you are going to ignore:

Not really. There were other factors to the fight, whereas the final one was one-on-one, no additional factors, with Steve winning while holding back

You keep repeating this without explaining why, what are the factors that makes that fight not a blatant one-on-one.
The fight is just Steve and bucky, none knowing the identity of the other and fight uninterrupted until the end.

Cap and Bucky are well coordinated, but certainly not equal in skill. Again, the fight makes it clear that Steve's gotta keep Tony away from Bucky. Bucky only manages to be as successful as he was because Steve picked up the slack

And again, coordination actually means skill in this situation for the reasons I gave, which you didn't even address. You bring up again the same point about Steve doing better than Bucky without explaining.

Steve is notil picking up any slack, Tony straight up doesn't want to engage with him until certain point.
Bucky does worse because Tony directly aims at him while constantly ignoring cap.

I'm not reducing the fight to that. I'm telling you how it is. Bucky was being chased like prey in that fight. Steve had to play saviour. Besides, its not like Bucky, one-on-one with Iron Man, was such a menace that an A.I. had to butt in to help

Literally what I just said.

Steve not being a hit target at all is the main reason as to why he is doing so much better.
If Tony truly wanted to, he would have made cap struggle for his life in several occasions like Buchanan, but because of reluctance along with the lack of space Steve takes better advantage.

 

[Lonkitt]

Oh would he do that exactly? He never did anywhere near the amount of damage his giant self did

That's the point. Sandman is on Base Peter's level, so why would Base Peter scale to Giant Sandman? You've just proven yourself to be contradictory

 

[KLOL506]

…do you really think I’m stupid? Chill tf out man, I’m ******* sick of everyone being mad at me here for adding on to the ******* conversation. I can’t even say shit here without someone either clowning on me for it, or acting like I’m the stupidest person on earth which obviously I’m not

Jesus Christ my man calm down.

I thought his meter going red was his fully charged power? Or do I just remember it wrong?

It was but he wasn't going all-out when torturing Spider-Man, only in the mouth roar scene, which doesn't mean much because grouding and insulation, would've been a different story if it was in mid-air within melee range but he doesn't go red there so yeah.

So, it’s still dura neg to sand only I guess

Uh no. Dura neg would be like poison, not glassing.

Still, the fact that he did survive at all is impressive

Barely surviving is not grounds for scaling.

Cool that doesn’t change the fact he was already hurt prior

Problem is that "hurt" didn't do a dent on Spidey's overall performance, like, at all.

It litterly is, this one just didn’t get the whole charge thing. You even get some simalar when Tom gets shot agian

Only Tom ever gets shot up with that whine build up twice, Tobey and Andrew don't even get the opportunity to hear that whine build-up. Is that so hard to understand?

I don’t see why he can’t just blast it out of his arms without the reactor considering his draining it constantly.

Because that's not how the Unibeam's power works. You have to explicitly focus all your inner power and the Arc Reactor's power into that one single spot to completely use it up.

The reactor is constantly light up wdym?

There's a difference between "normal light up Arc Reactor" and "charged-up, coil-whining, shining-brighter-than-a-flashbang Arc Reactor".

They are not the same.

 

[Lonkitt]

You keep repeating this without explaining why, what are the factors that makes that fight not a blatant one-on-one.
The fight is just Steve and bucky, none knowing the identity of the other and fight uninterrupted until the end.


And again, coordination actually means skill in this situation for the reasons I gave, which you didn't even address. You bring up again the same point about Steve doing better than Bucky without explaining.

Steve is notil picking up any slack, Tony straight up doesn't want to engage with him until certain point.
Bucky does worse because Tony directly aims at him while constantly ignoring cap.


Literally what I just said.

Steve not being a hit target at all is the main reason as to why he is doing so much better.
If Tony truly wanted to, he would have made cap struggle for his life in several occasions like Buchanan, but because of reluctance along with the lack of space Steve takes better advantage.

I've explained a lot of my counters to this in other threads and frankly, I'm really tired of repeating myself today, but I will comment on that last part

Iron Man's suit in Civil War isn't on the same level as his higher tier suits that reach higher levels of power (such as High 8-C). Tony was using an 8-C suit in this one, so its not like he could've slaughtered them effortlessly

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

That's the point. Sandman is on Base Peter's level, so why would Base Peter scale to Giant Sandman? You've just proven yourself to be contradictory

Not really, I’ve already stated peter took his blows pretty well tbh.

Jesus Christ my man calm down.


It was but he wasn't going all-out when torturing Spider-Man, only in the mouth roar scene, which doesn't mean much because grouding and insulation, would've been a different story if it was in mid-air within melee range but he doesn't go red there so yeah.


Uh no. Dura neg would be like poison, not glassing.


Barely surviving is not grounds for scaling.



Problem is that "hurt" didn't do a dent on Spidey's overall performance, like, at all.


Only Tom ever gets shot up with that whine build up twice, Tobey and Andrew don't even get the opportunity to hear that whine build-up. Is that so hard to understand?


Because that's not how the Unibeam's power works. You have to explicitly focus all your inner power and the Arc Reactor's power into that one single spot to completely use it up.


There's a difference between "normal light up Arc Reactor" and "charged-up, coil-whining, shining-brighter-than-a-flashbang Arc Reactor".

They are not the same.

Ok then what about him getting beat on by goblin before taking a bomb to the face. Despite it meshing him up it’s still part of the reasoning for his dura rating

So you did hear the whine sound. Ok and? Hasn’t tony blasted people without the whine build up? Besdies don’t they all scale to each other?

Maybe for tony or rohdey but electro can take as much as he wants and shoot it out however.

It’s looked the same throughout the fight from what I remember. The only time it kind of looked brighter was when he shot tom but that’s probably electros electricity being converted into a different color

 

[Lonkitt]

Not really, I’ve already stated peter took his blows pretty well tbh.

I’m convinced at this point you’re not reading what I’m saying. Again. You are essentially scaling Base Sandman to Giant Sandman since Base Sandman scales to Spider-Man and you are saying Spider-Man scales to Giant Sandman

 

[KLOL506]

Ok then what about him getting beat on by goblin before taking a bomb to the face. Despite it meshing him up it’s still part of the reasoning for his dura rating

Technically speaking the Script does allude the Goblin to be stronger despite Tom giving it his all but at the end of the day it wouldn't matter much since they're still within 8-C territory.

So you did hear the whine sound.

It's not the same whine sound as the repulsors or the blast that Tom gets hit in the face with. So your point is moot.

Ok and? Hasn’t tony blasted people without the whine build up?

Unless you count the lasers, nope.

Besdies don’t they all scale to each other?

No.

Maybe for tony or rohdey but electro can take as much as he wants and shoot it out however.

Burden of proof is on you to show that he has gotten the same amount of skill weaponizing them like that as Tony did.

It’s looked the same throughout the fight from what I remember. The only time it kind of looked brighter was when he shot tom but that’s probably electros electricity being converted into a different color

Nah, they're not the same, the Arc Reactor amped blast originates from the chest. It's why Tony calls it the Chest RT to begin with.

 

[Newendigo]

I disagree on the last part, but I'm also tired.

Seriously, why every major discussion I have always happens around evening in my place.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I’m convinced at this point you’re not reading what I’m saying. Again. You are essentially scaling Base Sandman to Giant Sandman since Base Sandman scales to Spider-Man and you are saying Spider-Man scales to Giant Sandman

Which


It's not the same whine sound as the repulsors or the blast that Tom gets hit in the face with. So your point is moot.


Unless you count the lasers, nope.


No.


Burden of proof is on you to show that he has gotten the same amount of skill weaponizing them like that as Tony did.


Nah, they're not the same, the Arc Reactor amped blast originates from the chest. It's why Tony calls it the Chest RT to begin with.

Alright imma hit the hay in a min and I don’t feel like dealing with this tomorrow so let’s just agree to disagree

 

[Coolboy6]

Alright imma hit the hay in a min and I don’t feel like dealing with this tomorrow so let’s just agree to disagree

I’m feeling the same way too

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Lonkitt Just go back to Kamen Rider and Super Sentai pls

But yeah, i feel this debate would never end, glad it's over now

 

[Lonkitt]

@Lonkitt Just go back to Kamen Rider and Super Sentai pls

I tend to stick to Kamen Rider and another verse. Can’t really say I’ll stick to Sentai much outside of what I know since I admittedly think it’s not nearly as compelling as Kamen Rider

Recently it’s been harder to make time for this hobby though unfortunately

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

Compelling arguments, however, there is a pipe bomb in your mailbox

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

Compelling arguments, however, there is a pipe bomb in your mailbox

POV: You are the pipe bomb when I find it in my mail

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

POV: You are the pipe bomb when I find it in my mail

Spoiler

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

so I......didn't like Wakanda Forever

 

[Coolboy6]

so I......didn't like Wakanda Forever

You don’t like any movie

 

[Lollipop_The_King]

so I......didn't like Wakanda Forever

Here's a medal for telling us your brave opinion.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

You don’t like any movie

I like like 90% of the MCU.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

You don’t like any movie

You don't like peoples opinions like me

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

You don't like peoples opinions like me

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

Seeing Yondu without the make-up:

 

[KLOL506]

Watched Wakanda Forever BTW, it was decent. Certainly better than L&T, but some of the jokes felt a bit forced, if not outright edgy TBF. The Talokan reveal was absolutely stunning tho. Shame it was ruined by the final Ironheart suit.

 

[Dalesean027]

At some point, the other Eternals should get profiles (with thinkers downscaling to Low 6-B+), and Arthur Harrow's pillar feat still needs to get calced.

Bumping this, if anyone else has it can you please bump the other MCU things that need to be done that we talked about a couple of pages ago and the She-Hulk respect thread

The Spider-Man scaling discussion pushed all that stuff back like 2 or 3 pages and I can't find the rest of it

 

[Propellus]

The Spider-Man scaling discussion pushed all that stuff back like 2 or 3 pages

Glad that's been over with

 

[Dalesean027]

Glad that's been over with

Yeah it came at a bad time though since we just compiled all that stuff and had a plan of things we needed to do and now its lost again and I'd like to get back to that

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

We still have a lot to do before Phase 5

Updates:

Massively Hypersonic+ Scaling for Netflix Characters (Thanks Daredevil and Kingpin)
Fixing Guardian's profiles (Especially Mantis given what she has now)
Updating Shuri and Okoye's page (Also, what conclusion did we reach for Jabari wood?)

New shit:
Calcing some feats in the Guardians movie?
She-Hulk profiles (At the very least, the main character should get one)
She-Hulk feats
Werewolf by Night feats
Werewolf by Night Profiles
Namor and Riri profiles (Anyone else?)

There's also this list of stuff to do

 

[Dalesean027]

There's also this list of stuff to do

Thank you

 

[Lonkitt]

There's also this list of stuff to do

For MHS+ Netflix scaling, we got Kingpin stomping Kate Bishop and Daredevil avoiding She-Hulk’s attacks. We’ve already discussed how the NWH brick catch doesn’t add anything of value. Am I missing anything?

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

For MHS+ Netflix scaling, we got Kingpin stomping Kate Bishop and Daredevil avoiding She-Hulk’s attacks. We’ve already discussed how the NWH brick catch doesn’t add anything of value. Am I missing anything?

I recall in the thread to upgrade the netflix characters to MHS+ for Kingpins fight with Kate, someone (i think Quased) brought up that scaling Kate to Hawkeye doesn't work because he got old or something, that should probably be adressed in the thread, but it shouldn't be too hard since we can just say he fought Yelena so his reactions are still in the MHS+ level

 

[Lacku]

I recall in the thread to upgrade the netflix characters to MHS+ for Kingpins fight with Kate, someone (i think Quased) brought up that scaling Kate to Hawkeye doesn't work because he got old or something, that should probably be adressed in the thread, but it shouldn't be too hard since we can just say he fought Yelena so his reactions are still in the MHS+ level

Sounds like headcanon tbh

 

[Lonkitt]

Hawkeye “getting old” doesn’t seem like a reasonable excuse. Like you said, he fought Yelena and she’s still performing missions. Clint became deaf in one ear, he never got weaker. He still stomps opponents he expectedly should and has no signs of losing any skill

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

nvm checked the thread it was actually efficiente who brought it up

 

[Coolboy6]

nvm checked the thread it was actually efficiente who brought it up

Common Efi L

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

So yeah there should be no problems with the upgrade, especially now that Daredevil also has MHS+ scaling

 

[Lonkitt]

Daredevil is probably the strongest evidence of street crime tiers scaling to MHS+ IMO. I’m neutral on it truthfully