MCU Phase 4 General Discussion Thread

[Lonkitt]

True but even then in tasm2 Andrew still took a beating from electro so even then wouldn’t they be at least high 8-c

TASM Peter is more consistently 8-C and he's portrayed as getting his ass whooped by Electro. High 8-C doesn't fit

 

[Propellus]

Also, Electro's calcs literally has so many variables that we don't even know what is typically being used there

 

[Coolboy6]

As somebody who takes part in lots of sarcasm, I didn't use any during this entire debate

“Tier 1 Luke Cage”

“Not a strong argument”

“”why are having this debate”

Those sayings felt very sarcastic to me, sorry if it sounds stupid but that’s just how I felt. Anyways back to the main discussion that was brought up

 

[Lonkitt]

“Tier 1 Luke Cage”

“Not a strong argument”

“”why are having this debate”

Those sayings felt very sarcastic to me, sorry if it sounds stupid but that’s just how I felt. Anyways back to the main discussion that was brought up

Tier 1 Luke Cage is an example. Not a strong argument is just me being honest. Why are we having this debate is a genuine question. Truthfully, I don't wanna get back into this topic, its very overplayed by now

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

TASM Peter is more consistently 8-C and he's portrayed as getting his ass whooped by Electro. High 8-C doesn't fit

Ya and my point is he can take multiple blows from him and still keep going just like in no way home

 

[Lonkitt]

Ya and my point is he can take multiple blows from him and still keep going just like in no way home

He's more consistently taking his lesser value attacks and hasn't once been hit with an Arc Reactor enhanced blast

 

[Coolboy6]

He's more consistently taking his lesser value attacks and hasn't once been hit with an Arc Reactor enhanced blast

But do we really know that for sure?

 

[Lonkitt]

But do we really know that for sure?

Um...yeah. We do actually, I literally brought up the moments in the film that emphasize the Arc Reactor blasts. This isn't me guessing and shrugging. We literally know. Same goes for the values in TASM2

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

He's more consistently taking his lesser value attacks and hasn't once been hit with an Arc Reactor enhanced blast

You mean in NWH or tasm2, dosen’t matter considering he would scale off of Tom besdies as I said it shouldn’t matter considering his already absorbing energy from the arc. Heck didn’t ock straight up over power electro with the reactor?

 

[Lonkitt]

You mean in NWH or tasm2, dosen’t matter considering he would scale off of Tom besdies as I said it shouldn’t matter considering his already absorbing energy from the arc. Heck didn’t ock straight up over power electro with the reactor?

I mean in both

Ock didn't overpower Electro, he caught him off-guard. Context matters. Lets also remember Electro absolutely wasted Otto earlier when first gaining the Arc Reactor

 

[Coolboy6]

Um...yeah. We do actually, I literally brought up the moments in the film that emphasize the Arc Reactor blasts. This isn't me guessing and shrugging. We literally know. Same goes for the values in TASM2

Because Klol calced too many values

In all seriousness, we can't see when the values increased during battle because of camera angles and stuff, so its hard to tell when he's at a certain power level

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I mean in both

Ock didn't overpower Electro, he caught him off-guard. Context matters. Lets also remember Electro absolutely wasted Otto earlier when first gaining the Arc Reactor

Ok then that doesn’t make much sense tbh considering electro was trying to straight up kill him in both

He kinda did considering electro had more then enough time to break out of his grip

(6:50)

not really, he blasted him out of the building and jumped off just fine seconds later

 

[Lonkitt]

Ok then that doesn’t make much sense tbh considering electro was trying to straight up kill him in both

He kinda did considering electro had more then enough time to break out of his grip

(6:50)

not really, he blasted him out of the building and jumped off just fine seconds later

Again, you're ignoring the evidence I've brought up requiring the context and blasts and the calculated values. This isn't headcanon, this is literally in the movies

 

[Lonkitt]

Because Klol calced too many values

In all seriousness, we can't see when the values increased during battle because of camera angles and stuff, so its hard to tell when he's at a certain power level

Electro's highest value is literally only shown when Electro's about to be absorbed. Yes. We do in fact know that his scuffle with Peter wasn't his peak

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Again, you're ignoring the evidence I've brought up requiring the context and blasts and the calculated values. This isn't headcanon, this is literally in the movies

I’ve literally responded to your evidence ever time you brought it up. Ya and electro trying to murder peter is also in the films

 

[Lonkitt]

I’ve literally responded to your evidence ever time you brought it up. Ya and electro trying to murder peter is also in the films

Look I can’t tell you when Electro didn’t spam Arc Reactor blasts the entire fight and isn’t always fighting exactly at his peak. All I can tell you is that it’s there

 

[KLOL506]

But do we really know that for sure?

YES. WE DO. The Arc Reactor's signature whine sound is unmistakeable in its usage.

I thought it was already established that the Cap tiers are way lower than the Spider-Man tiers at this point?

No. They aren't. We established that in the threads prior.

Also, Electro's calcs literally has so many variables that we don't even know what is typically being used there

8-C has 28 instances and High 8-C has 33, 8-B has 6.

8-C is more or less is normal operating level staying out of the red warning levels, whenever he approaches High 8-C+ or 8-B tho he gets close to overloading and get his ammeter on his head entering the red territory.

 

[KLOL506]

I’ve literally responded to your evidence ever time you brought it up. Ya and electro trying to murder peter is also in the films

Electro doesn't need to go all out to murder Peter. And his Arc Reactor blasts have the signature whine we know and love from Iron Man's suit.

Whine? High 8-C Arc Reactor

No whine? 8-C electric attacks. That simple.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Look I can’t tell you when Electro didn’t spam Arc Reactor blasts the entire fight and isn’t always fighting exactly at his peak. All I can tell you is that it’s there

And you don’t need to I’ve already stated that it shouldn’t matter. His litterly absorbing energy from the reactor constantly, he regular blasts shouldn’t be any different from the one that comes out of the reactor. Heck you can even here it a bit when his blasting Andrew so it shouldn’t matter regardless

(5:45)

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Electro doesn't need to go all out to murder Peter. And his Arc Reactor blasts have the signature whine we know and love from Iron Man's suit.

Whine? High 8-C Arc Reactor

No whine? 8-C electric attacks. That simple.

He litterly blasts them with it a couple of times so it doesn’t matter tbh

don’t you mean 8-a?

 

[Lonkitt]

And you don’t need to I’ve already stated that it shouldn’t matter. His litterly absorbing energy from the reactor constantly, he regular blasts shouldn’t be any different from the one that comes out of the reactor. Heck you can even here it a bit when his blasting Andrew so it shouldn’t matter regardless

(5:45)

KLOL’s argument above counters all of this so I won’t repeat him

 

[Propellus]

The point is, Spidey-level characters are never getting upgraded to 8-A no matter how much you want to slice it up

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

KLOL’s argument above counters all of this so I won’t repeat him

Already counter his

 

[Lonkitt]

You didn’t counter it. You just pointed out outliers in the face of several consistent 8-C showings

 

[Newendigo]

Cap/Black Panther >>> Early Spider-Man >>> Winter Soldier >> Falcon/Black Widow/Yelena/Hawkeye >>> SHIELD Agents/Hydra Agents > Common Military Soldiers

I put “Early Spider-Man” since he definitely gains more skill and experience after Homecoming. I’ve seen people argue either way on whether current Spider-Man would match or surpass Steve’s skill or insist that Steve is still more skilled. But we do know via Tony's word that Cap is significantly more skilled than him at an early stage

I'm pretty sure that bucky is relative to cap and t'challa, no way he could be that below them when he can consistently match the former and is temporally beaten by the latter.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

You didn’t counter it. You just pointed out outliers in the face of several consistent 8-C showings

I did, what severally consistent 8-c showings?

 

[Lonkitt]

I'm pretty sure that bucky is relative to cap and t'challa, no way he could be that below them when he can consistently match the former and is temporally beaten by the latter.

I already brought up that Cap beat him while holding back. He only beat Cap when Steve refused to fight

 

[Lonkitt]

I did, what severally consistent 8-c showings?

…..Have you read our pages or….?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

…..Have you read our pages or….?

….. what pages?

 

[Lonkitt]

….. what pages?

Our profiles. For the Spider-Men. The three of them individually. Have you read them?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Our profiles. For the Spider-Men. The three of them individually. Have you read them?

Oh those ya

 

[Newendigo]

I already brought up that Cap beat him while holding back. He only beat Cap when Steve refused to fight

But Steve was not refusing to fight at the beginning of Winter Soldier when he didn't even know his identity, he was going toe-to-toe with him.

They both were both also fairly coordinated when they cornered Tony in Civil War, if Bucky was as below as your are making out the fight would have been all carried by cap.

 

[Lonkitt]

But Steve was not refusing to fight at the beginning of Winter Soldier when he didn't even know his identity, he was going toe-to-toe with him.

They both were both also fairly coordinated when they cornered Tony in Civil War, if Bucky was as below as your are making out the fight would have been all carried by him.

The first fight wasn’t really a straight forward one-on-one with the full context. The later fights, however (when Steve knows who he is), are

Coordinated =/= equal in skill. Bucky’s arm gave Tony a tough time, but that was through sheer strength, while Steve actually had Tony on the ropes through due to his greater skill

 

[Lonkitt]

Oh those ya

They have all the evidence of consistent 8-C

 

[KLOL506]

He litterly blasts them with it a couple of times so it doesn’t matter tbh

Only one he blasts twice is Tom. Nobody else had an Arc Reactor whine. I'd know, I watched that section of the fight five times in a row.

don’t you mean 8-a?

Nah, Arc Reactor on its own is High 8-C via 10 gigajoule statement. 8-A comes from IM's suit weaponising it.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Only one he blasts twice is Tom. Nobody else had an Arc Reactor whine. I'd know, I watched that section of the fight five times in a row.


Nah, Arc Reactor on its own is High 8-C via 10 gigajoule statement. 8-A comes from IM's suit weaponising it.

And they would still scale regardless. Andrew seemed to have one

(5:45)

Then why is it shown on his profile that he goes up to 8-a?

 

[KLOL506]

And you don’t need to I’ve already stated that it shouldn’t matter. His litterly absorbing energy from the reactor constantly, he regular blasts shouldn’t be any different from the one that comes out of the reactor. Heck you can even here it a bit when his blasting Andrew so it shouldn’t matter regardless

(5:45)

This? LMAO no, neither Tobey nor Andrew have that signature whine that Iron Man has when he shoots his repulsor blasts, only Tom and Tom alone gets the Repulsor blast (Which you can clearly hear at 5m 42s).

Also no, the 8-A part is not a passive amp, it is an active amp. Electro absorbing energy =/= becoming 8-A automatically unless the charge-up sound is audible.

In case you don't know what the sound is, here you go.

 

[KLOL506]

And they would still scale regardless. Andrew seemed to have one

(5:45)

No, they would not. Andrew never got the Arc Reactor Repulsor Whine, neither did Tobey, only Tom did.

Then why is it shown on his profile that he goes up to 8-a?

Because it's an active amp, though even then I personally myself have issues with this, always did. Iron Man being 8-A with said repulsor blasts and said Arc Reactor shouldn't mean that Electro should have it too, all he uses the reactor for is a near-infinite supply of energy, Stark literally mastered its power use and forged literal 7-B lasers out of it and accidental 8-A explosions from a two-man repulsor clash.

 

[Newendigo]

The first fight wasn’t really a straight forward one-on-one with the full context. The later fights, however (when Steve knows who he is), are

Coordinated =/= equal in skill. Bucky’s arm gave Tony a tough time, but that was through sheer strength, while Steve actually had Tony on the ropes through due to his greater skill

Dude, the fight after he attacked Fury and blasted Steve with a Granade launcher, not the rooftop chase.

Coordination absolutely mean equal skill in this context, skill is not merely beaten someone with fancy moves, is also being able to synchronize with someone's else fancy moves on a specific task.

Steve had Tony on the ropes because he was better in hand to hand than him, had a shield that neutralizes his attack while giving him a harder punch, and Tony really refusing to kill or noticeably harm Steve through out the entire battle.
Bucky had the first, but lacked the second and third.

 

[Lonkitt]

Dude, the fight after he attacked Fury and blasted Steve with a Granade launcher, not the rooftop chase.

Once again, not a simple one-on-one

Coordination absolutely mean equal skill in this context, skill is not merely beaten someone with fancy, is also being to synchronize with else someone's fancy moves on a specific task.

It certainly doesn't. If that were the case, Black Widow would be as skilled as Thor. That would also mean the two other Spider-Men would be as skilled as MCU Peter, which they are not (the Spider-Men are equal in stats of course, but skill is a different story)

Steven had Tony on the ropes because he was better in hand to hand than him, had a shield that neutralizes his attack giving him a harder punch, and Tony really refusing to kill or noticeably harm Steve through out the entire battle.
Bucky had the first, but lacked the second and third.

Bucky performed significantly less effective against Iron Man than Steve did. The fact that the climax of that movie is Steve preventing Bucky from being capped by Tony should support that as well