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MCU Phase 4 General Discussion Thread

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Disney+ shows ranking for me so far:
  1. Wandavision (I like the thriller and horror aspect of it, kinda spook me a bit lol)
  2. What If...? (Pretty enjoyable show ngl)
  3. Loki (I like it a lot but the selfcest between Loki and Sylvie is kinda weird for me)
  4. Falcon&Winter Soldier (Meh, the first and second episode bore the hell out of me but third and fourth finally got my attention, especially when John kill that terrorist dude)

What If...? Episode rank for me would be:
  1. Strange Supreme
  2. Ultron won
  3. Hank Pym goes nut
  4. Guardian of the Multiverse
  5. Party Thor
  6. Zombies
  7. Killmonger
  8. Captain Carter
  9. T'Challa
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
What would be the justification for 2-A or 2-B already? And Straneg would get what, Low 2-C or the same tier?
Click to expand...
Statement from wog
"Happy Monday! Just a reminder that Ultron is using the Infinity Stones to power himself (same universe being). Also he's legit punching across multiverses turning them into one messy universe soup. #WhatIf #WhatifMarvel #WeDidOurHW #YouAreAllAmazing"
https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-mcu-fan-complaints-infinity-stones-what-if

probably same tier for being the mvp of the ep
 
The_one_you_least_expect said:
Statement from wog
"Happy Monday! Just a reminder that Ultron is using the Infinity Stones to power himself (same universe being). Also he's legit punching across multiverses turning them into one messy universe soup. #WhatIf #WhatifMarvel #WeDidOurHW #YouAreAllAmazing"
https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-mcu-fan-complaints-infinity-stones-what-if

probably same tier for being the mvp of the ep
Click to expand...
Don't know if that will get accepted but this is definitely really helpful
 
The_one_you_least_expect said:
Statement from wog
"Happy Monday! Just a reminder that Ultron is using the Infinity Stones to power himself (same universe being). Also he's legit punching across multiverses turning them into one messy universe soup. #WhatIf #WhatifMarvel #WeDidOurHW #YouAreAllAmazing"
https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-mcu-fan-complaints-infinity-stones-what-if

probably same tier for being the mvp of the ep
Click to expand...
This and combined with The Watcher statement probably make sense for 2-A rating, I guess let's wait for others opinions.

MCU would get crazy if get accepted for sure, like 3-4 tier 2-A character in a week lol
 
My current What If episode ranking would be:

1. Strange Supreme
2. Infinite Ultron
3. Party Thor
4. T'Challa/Star Lord
5. Killmonger
6. Captain Carter
7. Finale
8. Zombies
9. Hank Pym kills the Avengers
 
Overall. I think What if is a really fun series with cool concepts not really brought out to the max. I think it's main problem is limited run time, and the stories don't really have enough time to flesh themselves out. That and I'm slightly annoyed by some questionable plot holes and stuff. And while the ending is a let down I still have hope for season 2 to improve things.

Superior Iron Man pls uwu
 
Fitz_100 said:
He views the multiverse he observes as stories (this is the fictional part)
Click to expand...
Observing as stories =/= reality-fiction transcendence. The Watcher watches because he's a higher level cosmic being, not because he's transcendent over the multiverse.
Fitz_100 said:
which is basically plot manipulation
Click to expand...
Which is only a Low 2-C showing.
 
My episode ranking:
1) Strange Supreme
2) Infinite Ultron
3) Party Thor
4) Captain Carter
5) T'Challa/Star Lord
6) Zombies
7) Killmonger
8) Finale
9) Hank Pym kills the Avengers

My Disney+ show rankings:
1) WandaVision
2) What If…
3) Loki
4) Falcon and Winter Solider
Personally ive really enjoyed all of the Disney+ shows, from the top to the bottom of my rankings I thought they where all really good if not great shows, I just unfortunately had to rank them lol.
 
Aight. Finally having a break so I can give my review for the episode.

My day is ruined and my disappointment is immeasurable.

As the second biggest Ultron fanboy, why the **** was my boy jobbing to a bunch of gutter trash before getting hacked by a creepy **** virus?

I get looking down on everything not called Strange Simpreme but getting bopped around by hammers and then frisbees, losing an arm to a stupid hammer, getting a sentry hacked by a weeb, the aforementioned **** virus, losing an eye to a USB stick, taking literally any damage etc etc.

Infinity Crusher was dumb, Killmonger and Zola being the “final villains”, Gamora did **** all, the Crusher failing because they were from another universe instead of Ultron simply having found another set while conquering the multiverse, Loki somehow not getting clowned by Carol, Wanda being the only thing Strange wanted to fight Ultron when Thanos and Hulk were also there, lack of T’Challa and Killmonger interactions before they had to fight Ultron, just ditching Tony, Strange being the only relevant guy for the whole ass fight etc etc.

Now as for what I do like …… Strange being the only relevant guy in the whole ass fight cuz let’s face it, the rest are trash and have no purpose being there for the most part besides Natasha for the arrow and ……… yeah just her. And Ultron treating them all like insects, cuz they are, besides Strange. Time Stone scene was the coolest part of the episode, the pathetic scramble for the Soul Stone was the second worst, following their trash pre-game meeting and all of its pointless cuts when a bunch of lines just followed each other naturally and sticking mini timeskip for the plan montage was irrelevant.

At least Low 2-C Strange is back.

Episode rankings
  1. Age of Ultron: The Ultron Cut
  2. Strange Supreme
  3. L’Oréal
  4. Gundam: Armored Adventures
  5. Loki slaps an old guy
  6. Captain Carter ft. Hentai Antagonist
  7. What If … the writers ruined Episode 8
  8. How to ruin Thanos 101
  9. …… probably the worst idea Marvel keeps reusing
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Aight. Finally having a break so I can give my review for the episode.

My day is ruined and my disappointment is immeasurable.

As the second biggest Ultron fanboy, why the **** was my boy jobbing to a bunch of gutter trash before getting hacked by a creepy **** virus?

I get looking down on everything not called Strange Simpreme but getting bopped around by hammers and then frisbees, losing an arm to a stupid hammer, getting a sentry hacked by a weeb, the aforementioned **** virus, losing an eye to a USB stick, taking literally any damage etc etc.

Infinity Crusher was dumb, Killmonger and Zola being the “final villains”, Gamora did **** all, the Crusher failing because they were from another universe instead of Ultron simply having found another set while conquering the multiverse, Loki somehow not getting clowned by Carol, Wanda being the only thing Strange wanted to fight Ultron when Thanos and Hulk were also there, lack of T’Challa and Killmonger interactions before they had to fight Ultron, just ditching Tony, Strange being the only relevant guy for the whole ass fight etc etc.

Now as for what I do like …… Strange being the only relevant guy in the whole ass fight cuz let’s face it, the rest are trash and have no purpose being there for the most part besides Natasha for the arrow and ……… yeah just her. And Ultron treating them all like insects, cuz they are, besides Strange. Time Stone scene was the coolest part of the episode, the pathetic scramble for the Soul Stone was the second worst, following their trash pre-game meeting and all of its pointless cuts when a bunch of lines just followed each other naturally and sticking mini timeskip for the plan montage was irrelevant.

At least Low 2-C Strange is back.

Episode rankings
  1. Age of Ultron: The Ultron Cut
  2. Strange Supreme
  3. L’Oréal
  4. Gundam: Armored Adventures
  5. Loki slaps an old guy
  6. Captain Carter ft. Hentai Antagonist
  7. What If … the writers ruined Episode 8
  8. How to ruin Thanos 101
  9. …… probably the worst idea Marvel keeps reusing
Click to expand...
I enjoyed this episode more than many but I can agree with this review. The Soul Stone is, once again, WASTED.
 
So I was wondering why the Watcher chose those specific people (outside of Strange I mean, the guy is the ONLY one who gets things done for real aside from Natasha) and judging from the ending, it seems it's because he foresaw everything that would go down in the final battle against Ultron, including the Infinity Crusher's failure and Killmonger's betrayal so he knew exactly who he had to recruit and what they needed to do in order to win. At least that's what the episode is trying to tell us (I think)
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
I enjoyed this episode more than many but I can agree with this review. The Soul Stone is, once again, WASTED.
Click to expand...
Speaking of, why tf did they need to get the Soul Stone for the Crusher? Why was that the plan? If it has to be the Soul Stone instead of just any, that is not only a design flaw but also dumb as since the Crusher doesn’t work on alternate Stones, why can it run on alternate Stones?

Also why did the Soul Stone glow when Ultron collapsed the mountain? What part of that has to do with souls?
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Speaking of, why tf did they need to get the Soul Stone for the Crusher? Why was that the plan? If it has to be the Soul Stone instead of just any, that is not only a design flaw but also dumb as since the Crusher doesn’t work on alternate Stones, why can it run on alternate Stones?

Also why did the Soul Stone glow when Ultron collapsed the mountain? What part of that has to do with souls?
Click to expand...
No idea. I just thought the crusher was just there to take the Stones and that's it but since it's the Soul Stone we're talking about and it can control life itself, I guess it somehow connected the machine to the rest of the Stones since they sort of have their own counsciousness? (In case you're wondering, yes I'm trying to imagine an answer)

Honestly, I was more focued on how the Soul Stone was once again a major plot device but is basically the ONLY Stone we never see ANY particular ability associated with it, wich just pisses me off cause it could be the most interesting and OP
 
And about abilities, time for another summary:
  • Ultron: Regeneration (Low-Mid via the Reality Stone), Energy Absorption, Earth Manipulation (the mountain scene), likely Astral Projection (from the scene where the talks to the Guardians before) and Resistance against Fire and Electricity. He gets Low 2-C
  • Strange the Goat: Duplication (the multiple Mjolnirs), Animal Manipulation, very high levels of Power Bestowal, Shapeshifiting and Resistance to Time via the Time Stone. Gets Low 2-C as well (and if that's not accepted, 3-C cause num num galatic explosion snack tastes good)
  • The other Guardians: Get a Low 2-C key for being able to plot armor Ultron in the face cause...plot
 
As for the way the Ultron was defeated, yeah is pretty disappointing but honestly I don't feel angry at all because it was already said in the previous episode that Zola was going to take him out, so I just rolled eyes & rolled with it.

Granted, I think they could have at least tried to make the method of winning more complicated.

Like Ultron being attacked by not just one, but multiple A.Is like Zola, Jarvis and a couple of others from different universes.

Or being attacked by Zola mentally and Strange spiritually with the soul stone, they could have gone with the idea that Ultron's evolved consciusness developed something akin to a soul.

Or tried to take the stones one by one until he was eventually weak enough to be attacked by all sorts of things.
 
Newendigo said:
Like Ultron being attacked by not just one, but multiple A.Is like Zola, Jarvis and a couple of others from different universes.

Or being attacked by Zola mentally and Strange spiritually with the soul stone, they could have gone with the idea that Ultron's evolved consciusness developed something akin to a soul.

Or tried to take the stones one by one until he was eventually weak enough to be attacked by all sorts of things.
Click to expand...
Why is it that some people like us can write better ideas than writers payed for it?

The Zola stuff didn't make me angry though, I accepted it
 
Honestly i disliked how little he used the stones, yeah understkmating and all but the moment he saw they were amped and got one of his stones, he should've used his hax.

He should've used the time stone earlier, he never used the space tone i think, decided to run instead of using it, and never used the mind or soul stones
 
Thelastmlg said:
Honestly i disliked how little he used the stones, yeah understkmating and all but the moment he saw they were amped and got one of his stones, he should've used his hax.

He should've used the time stone earlier, he never used the space tone i think, decided to run instead of using it, and never used the mind or soul stones
Click to expand...
Well, that's the classic weakness: the villain could end everything in an instant but he doesn't because he underestimates his foes or thinks the heroes aren't worthy of his using full power (not thinking about a certain blond Sumerian with a golden armor, absolutely not, really 👀)
 
Just watched the finale and I have to admit seeing The Watcher just grab Party Thor out of battle (Like an action figure) was hilarious and one of my favourite parts of the finale, as for my general thoughts:

*Vultron definitely was hit with the CiS/arrogant villain trope, he rarely used any of the stones in creative ways and when he did start using his powers effectively, it's ofc the one power that's hard countered by Strange Supreme (Time Manipulation). No summoning of sentries, no retcon punches, the soul stone didn't do anything (Again..) etc. He just gets easliy beaten by an old Nazi AI in cyberspace and that's all she wrote.

*Strange Supreme hard carried the finale (Both figuratively and narratively) he used his arsenal to buff his teammates while throwing everything he had at Vultron; Zombies, Dragons, Tentacles, etc. Ofc Strange Supreme stopping another galaxy bust was awesome to watch and his banter with the others was top class (Reminder he is containing countless mystical and demonic entities within himself while all this is going on). MoM can't arrive soon enough.

*The rest of the GotM were hit or miss for me. Gamora being pulled out of a delayed episode really did hurt the plot of the finale since we didn't get a chance to connect with her like the others plus her most important role in the finale (With her infinity destroyer) ended up being useless (Why was she summoned again?), Party Thor was the secondary carry on the team (It really does show how powerful he was even without the awakening/Stormbreaker) also him being the one to accidentally summon the big bad was hilarious, Captain Carter/Survivor Widow got a lot of nice moments (including being the ones to upload Zola.exe Machina) plus them getting good endings felt nice (Albeit Widow's ending felt forced imo) and lastly Starlord T'Challa/Killmonger were kinda "meh" this episode, with T'Challa being on support yet even then his support was rendered pointless when Vultron stole back the soul stone and aside from that he was just mostly "there" (I felt like his intelligence was underplayed while Ego got taken out way too easily and what happened to his core?, yet more evidence that the finale was rushed) meanwhile Killmonger unsurprisingly betrayed the team only to get quickly sealed away along with Zoltron (That betrayal plot point was resolved in record time lol!) and that's really the only notable thing he did in the finale.

*The Watcher was surprisingly absent in the finale (Only appearing in the very beginning to the summon "heroes" and in the end to send them on their way as well as seal away a plot point) it kinda reminded me of an abridged version of Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Kind of a wasted chance to learn more about The Watcher imo (Or at least see him fight alongside the others).

Overall I'll give the finale a 7.5/10. It had epic moments to be sure but it was heavily bogged down by push back, missed opportunities and rushed writing. In retrospect we should've gotten the Iron Man Sakaar episode this season (Which would've built up Gamora's character prior to the finale) and the finale itself should've been roughly 45mins long (it's actually shorter than both ep 2 and 4).

My overall "What if...?" rankings.

1st) Ep 4 (Strange Supreme)
2nd) Ep 8 (Ultron Infinity)
3rd) Ep 7 (Party Thor)
4th) Ep 2 (Starlord T'Challa)
5th) Ep 3 (Avengers Assassinated)
6th) Ep 5 (Zombies)
7th) Ep 9 (Finale)
8th) Ep 1 and 6 (Captain Carter and Killmonger)

Misc notes: At least a version of Tony didn't die in the finale also notice that despite it being a multiverse the characters always end up on some version of the Earth in every episode?(Good thing the greatest "heroes" in the multiversal all speak fluent english lol!).

A shame we didn't get to see Vultron effortless blow up an universe.
 
Last edited:
ArkhamDC06 said:
And about abilities, time for another summary:
  • Ultron: Regeneration (Low-Mid via the Reality Stone), Energy Absorption, Earth Manipulation (the mountain scene), likely Astral Projection (from the scene where the talks to the Guardians before) and Resistance against Fire and Electricity. He gets Low 2-C
  • Strange the Goat: Duplication (the multiple Mjolnirs), Animal Manipulation, very high levels of Power Bestowal, Shapeshifiting and Resistance to Time via the Time Stone. Gets Low 2-C as well (and if that's not accepted, 3-C cause num num galatic explosion snack tastes good)
  • The other Guardians: Get a Low 2-C key for being able to plot armor Ultron in the face cause...plot
Click to expand...
Wouldn't Strange resist time by himself? I thought he used stone just to nullify the field, he was doing fine without it.
Also Creation (creates drinks) and Pocket Reality Manipulation (Sealed villains inside one/may be a Watcher thing, can't say for sure).
 
My ranking would now be:

1) What If... Doctor Strange Lost His Heart Instead of His Hands?
2) What If... Ultron Won?
3) What If... Thor Were an Only Child?
4) What If... Zombies!?
5) What If... The Watcher Broke His Oath?
6) What If... The World Lost Its Mightiest Heroes?
7) What If... T'Challa Became a Star-Lord?
8) What If... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?
9) What If... Captain Carter Were The First Avenger?
 
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