Jubileus and Aesir upgrade?

[Valiant_Abyss]

"Long have two eyes, one light and one dark, watched over the world and its history. It is this power that will allow the creator to start a new cycle of creation."

There is your proof.

If anything this supports that being a low 2-C feat because it's says she can start a new cycle of creation in other words a new space-time continuum

 

[WeeklyBattles]

"It is this power that will allow the creator to start a new cycle of creation."

Right there my boy, it doesnt get any more blatant in saying that its a reset than that.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

If anything this supports that being a low 2-C feat because it's says she can start a new cycle of creation in other words a new space-time continuum

Except there is zero proof the flow of time was a part of the original cycle of creation in Bayonetta, so this is false.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

Refer to the above.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Except there is, because there are worlds that are stated to exist outside of the natural flow of time

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Except there is, because there are worlds that are stated to exist outside of the natural flow of time

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

"It is this power that will allow the creator to start a new cycle of creation."

Right there my boy, it doesnt get any more blatant in saying that its a reset than that.

It is a universal reset, I agree. Yet to see any proof of time being resetted along with it, however.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Cycle=time Creation=space

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

Except there is, because there are worlds that are stated to exist outside of the natural flow of time

And this is relevant how?

So the existence of parallel worlds where time doesn't exist somehow means those worlds were created before time itself began? This is, yet again, a non-sequitur.

There is literally no quote in Bayonetta that establishes time was created by Aesir or anybody else. We never ever give universal creators Low 2-C without direct proof of a space-time continuum being created. This is asking to give the verse special treatment.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The fact that in the same quote they refer to the Word's history and then say that it will start anew is proof my guy

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There is literally no quote in Bayonetta that establishes time was created by Aesir or anybody else. We never ever give universal creators Low 2-C without direct proof of a space-time continuum being created. This is asking to give the verse special treatment.

Actually with our reworking of 3-A and Low 2-C we will be doing so

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

Cycle=time Creation=space

Cycle = "a series of events that are regularly repeated in the same order."

Creation = self-explanatory.

This is headcanon.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Actually with our reworking of 3-A and Low 2-C we will be doing so

That got nope'd unanimously, so no it's not happening.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

Actually with our reworking of 3-A and Low 2-C we will be doing so

I reread those threads two days ago and I don't recall such a thing being decided anywhere. I am fairly sure that part of the proposal was rejcted. Even Kep told me as much a while back.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

The fact that in the same quote they refer to the Word's history and then say that it will start anew is proof my guy

The world's history that every single statement clarifies doesn't mean the time-continuum but just the records of the old history, yes.

The statement I quoted to you doesn't even say that, by the way

 

[WeeklyBattles]

""Long have two eyes, one light and one dark, watched over the world and its history."

Yes, it does

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

> then say that it will start anew

No it doesn't. Even if it did, we have established the context of "history" in Bayonetta.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Three realities once split shall be brought together to create a new universe in the image of the old. To these ends, leading to the Festival of Resurrection 500 years ago, I fanned the flames of terror... spurring on the witch hunts. However, despite the people's belief in the return of Jubileus, the Creator, the Left Eye was out of reach. Since then, I have devoted myself to this town's prosperity, and now it is time for my preparations to bear fruit. Jubileus will be resurrected, we will become the Eyes of the World, and a new universe will take hold!

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Yes, this feat is legit, but it's 3-A and there's nothing suggesting Low 2-C in that quote.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

Indeed. That quote establishes the trinity will be fused into one, a 3-A feat, and establishes the old universe will be replaced by a new one, yet another 3-A feat.

It never states time and space would be recreated.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

6 agree

2 neutral

2 disagree

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

To recapitulate for those coming from the outside:

The Eyes of the World are stated in the lore two different times to be capable of viewing the past, present and future in the form of visions, and to be capable of recording those different moments in time as "memories" that can be sometimes accessed by a multitude of different people. This is the power the Eyes have that allows them to oversee History. Therefore, whenever someone mentions that the Eyes are capable of "creating history" or "giving rise into a new history", they are referring to this power - the power of viewing the past and the future and recording them through hax. Given that those quotes are tangled with the "time will begin anew" quote, the context that is implied is that the memories of history of the old universe would be destroyed, replaced with a new history. This is strongly inferred from the fact that Luka states something among the lines of "you don't need the Eyes to shape your own future" to Bayonetta in Bayo 2, among several quotes I mentioned in my first post in this thread.

The Eyes are the power-source of the two people with the 3-A feats in the verse, Jubileus and Loptr, and it is established they inherit its ability to oversee history and use its visions to mold it as well. Therefore, the context shown by the series strongly infers that the two statements made regarding "recreating history" and the one "time will be reborn" statement are referring to no more than this aspect of the Eyes, not to a space-time reset.

 

[Dienomite22]

I honestly see nothing that warrants low 2-C, 3-A is good though

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

I will be hitting the gym now. I'll return in an hour and a half to argue, so please don't "conclude" this thread until then. Thanks.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Even still the evidence shown would still have jubileus and aesir listed as possibly Low 2-C

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Yeah, I gotta side with Paradox on this one. Nothing here suggests Low 2-C, although 3-A is definitely a go.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I already counted you as disagree

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

I already counted you as disagree

Well, i did say initially that I was neutral, but thanks anyway

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I still agree with Weekly

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Well, i did say initially that I was neutral, but thanks anyway

I could clearly tell which way you were leaning

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

I could clearly tell which way you were leaning

I mean, you can actually argue against the proposition and remain neutral. Not like these two are mutually exclusive.

Btw, you forgot to count Dienomite, I assume he's against Low 2-C as well.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Honestly at this point I'm just fighting for Jubileus and Aesirs page to say possibly low 2-C at least

 

[Kepekley23]

As much as I'd like Low 2-C Bayonetta, Paradox is making more sense here, and being less circular.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

As much as I'd like Low 2-C Bayonetta, Paradox is making more sense here, and being less circular.

I don't think Bayo herself should be low 2-C but I think the gods should be or at least considered to be possibly low 2-C

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't think it was suggested to scale to Bayonetta herself, just the Gods. And Kep was probably referring to the Verse, not the character.

 

[Kepekley23]

I meant both.

Since Weekly was planning to upgrade Bayo herself at some point in the future using these statements and I was waiting for that.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I was waiting for it too as i do plan on scaling bayo to Aesir

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Inb4 Bayonetta 3, while delayed till at least 2020, comes and gives everyone a bunch of upgrades beyond 2-C

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Inb4 Bayonetta 3, while delayed till at least 2020, comes and gives everyone a bunch of upgrades beyond 2-C

I'm hoping

 

[DarkGrath]

Well... for now, I think Paradox and Kepe make the most sense, though I would still like to see the official CRT about scaling Bayo to Aesir from Weekly.