Before Bayonetta 3 : Tier 2 Upgrades

[Comicgyal]

What kind of infinite do the scans mean? Countably or uncountably? Cuz if you were to combine uncountably infinite with the "beyond all space and time" statement, that could be grounds for 5D/Low 1-C as opposed to 2-A

Countable for now.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The problem here is that your explanations go against what the video shows, one of those has loptr lasering Bayo and ragdolling her all around before the eye is activated, another one with the kid slamming her around, so on and so forth.

The trial, like someone said above, contradicts what the story of the game has and its canonicty becomes dubious considering it is basically a bonus arena.

Again, it really, truly doesnt. The clip of Loptr lasering Bayo is not indicative of Bayo being in any way weaker when Bayo not only dominated him the entire fight beforehand, but beat him later on in the muspelheim (which is canon by both the game and by the guidebook's descriptions), beat Jubileus (who is significantly stronger than him in the previous game), and canonically beat both Father Rodin (who is equal to full power Jubileus) and Infinite Rodin (who is stronger than Aesir), as well as Alaune (who became strong enough to match Queen Sheba [Jubileus' equal] by absorbing Jeanne's soul [Jeanne herself being able to damage Jubileus). And again, the claim that young Loptr beat her is automatically debunked when you actually watch the full fight and see Bayo casually bust the city-sized meteor that he threw at her just seconds before he destroyed the battlefield, with the guidebook outright confirming that he had to flee because Bayo would have beaten him otherwise.

So, without knowledge of the verse, tell me what sounds more logical:

1. Bayonetta scales to Aesir and above Loptr and Kid Loptr, which is backed up by the guidebook statements that the later two forms were losing and needed to cheat to win, corroborated by the canon Muspelheim trials where she beat both of them, and consistent with her feats from both games.

or

2. Bayonetta got inexplicably weaker between the end of the first game and the beginning of the second game, is suddenly weaker than a child version of the main villain before he spent all of those aforementioned centuries growing stronger by absorbing hate, and every single boss fight in Bayonetta 2 is just PIS.

As for Jubileus and Bayo 1 stuff, I'm now knowledgeable but someone said the kid has been getting power from hatred for over 500 years, what's to say he isn't already stronger than those guys?

If he was stronger to the point of surpassing them without the need for the Eyes, the entire plot of the game would have been pointless

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Again, she wasnt, as myself, Comic, and Minaj have explained. He only ever beat her with hax or by running away,

Not true as shown above

which is coroborated by both the Musphelheim trials and the game's own guidebook

Canonicity is up in the air on Musphelheim and you have yet to show scans from the guidebook

Loptr is weaker than One-Eye Jubileus

Based on...?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not true as shown above

It is true as myself, Comic, and Minaj have explained. Unless you are arguing that Bayonetta got inexplicably weaker between the end of Bayo 1 and the events of Bayo 2, the only argument that should be made here is if she scales to Aesir, there is no logical reason for her to be weaker than Loptr to any degree.

Based on...?

Based on the fact that Aesir is equal to Jubileus and Sheba. Loki and Kid Loptr are both half of Aesir's power, adult Loptr/Prophet is kid Loptr after spending hundreds of years growing stronger by absorbing hate, but he still needed to steal Loki's Sovereign Power to get back to his original level of power, ie the same level of power that Bayonetta stomped at the end of Bayonetta 1.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Again, it really, truly doesnt. The clip of Loptr lasering Bayo is not indicative of Bayo being in any way weaker when Bayo not only dominated him the entire fight beforehand, but beat him later on in the muspelheim (which is canon by both the game and by the guidebook's descriptions)

Claiming bayo dominated loptr through justification of gameplay is difficult when gameplay experience varies from player to player. The only cutscene that happens is bayo destroying the tower and then hitting Loptr with an infernal weave which knocks him back but doesn't really do anyting to him. The post fight cutscene, our only strictly canon view of the battle shows Loptr with a decent advantage over her.

I don't know why we're assuming here that because a location is canon, the events inside it are to. It's like if I were to argue that all the postgame missions in astral chain involving already dead characters should be considered canon because the locations of the fights are in the canon.

, beat Jubileus (who is significantly stronger than him in the previous game), and canonically beat both Father Rodin (who is equal to full power Jubileus) and Infinite Rodin (who is stronger than Aesir), as well as Alaune (who became strong enough to match Queen Sheba [Jubileus' equal] by absorbing Jeanne's soul [Jeanne herself being able to damage Jubileus).

Prove that Weakened Jubileus > Loptr. Father Rodin scaling to Jubileus was determined to be iffy for scaling reasons and lack of insight on Jubileus' current state when Rodin resided in Paradiso. Alraune has no proof of being strong enough to match queen Sheba aside from her saying "I feel like I can become the queen of this realm." She has utterly no feats to back it up and her credibility is not very good considering that her entire character design is being ******* insane and mentally ill.

And again, the claim that young Loptr beat her is automatically debunked when you actually watch the full fight and see Bayo casually bust the city-sized meteor that he threw at her just seconds before he destroyed the battlefield, with the guidebook outright confirming that he had to flee because Bayo would have beaten him otherwise.

The meteor has less relevance than you're making it out to be. And you still have yet to post scans from the guidebook claiming that loptr would've lost if he hadn't fled.

If he was stronger to the point of surpassing them without the need for the Eyes, the entire plot of the game would have been pointless

His goal isn't to become stronger than Bayonetta. His goal is to ascend to Aesir so he can take free will away from humanity which he needs the eyes to do. Bayo also got multiple bail outs, such as Loki opening the gates of hell, Loptr having other urgent needs (taking out Rosa), the destruction of the eyes.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

It is true as myself, Comic, and Minaj have explained. Unless you are arguing that Bayonetta got inexplicably weaker between the end of Bayo 1 and the events of Bayo 2, the only argument that should be made here is if she scales to Aesir, there is no logical reason for her to be weaker than Loptr to any degree.

This whole point leans on the assumption that weakened Jubileus is stronger than Loptr which has not been proven. Bayo being weaker than Loptr does not imply that Bayo got weaker between 1 and 2.

Based on the fact that Aesir is equal to Jubileus and Sheba. Loki and Kid Loptr are both half of Aesir's power, adult Loptr/Prophet is kid Loptr after spending hundreds of years growing stronger by absorbing hate, but he still needed to steal Loki's Sovereign Power to get back to his original level of power, ie the same level of power that Bayonetta stomped at the end of Bayonetta 1.

Bayo stomped a WEAKENED Jubileus. Not a full power Jubileus, who's equal to Aesir. There is nothing proving weakened Jubileus to be stronger than Loptr.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This whole point leans on the assumption that weakened Jubileus is stronger than Loptr which has not been proven. Bayo being weaker than Loptr does not imply that Bayo got weaker between 1 and 2.

Jubileus wasnt weakened though, on the contrary she was stronger than she would be normally due to posseing one of the Eyes of the world

Bayo stomped a WEAKENED Jubileus. Not a full power Jubileus, who's equal to Aesir. There is nothing proving weakened Jubileus to be stronger than Loptr.

...? My guy, Jubileus had one of the Eyes of the World, she wasnt weakened at all, she was stronger than she is normally.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

What kind of infinite do the scans mean? Countably or uncountably? Cuz if you were to combine uncountably infinite with the "beyond all space and time" statement, that could be grounds for 5D/Low 1-C as opposed to 2-A

Uncountable and countable is something solely userd by us on the wiki for low1C or 2A.

Fiction doesn't care about battleboarding lingo and hyperspecific mathematical terms. So even simple infinite is enough for low1C.
I just wanted comvey.... don't go expecting vswiki jargons from fiction, its usually not fair.

I agree with OP on 2A and Fate Hax. For scaling to hero cast without eyes.... I will defer to consensus at end of thread by Bayo experts, but I lean towards Abyss' evaluation.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I agree with OP on 2A and Fate Hax. For scaling to hero cast without eyes.... I will defer to consensus at end of thread by Bayo experts, but I lean towards Abyss' evaluation.

Abyss' evaluation is currently extrordinarily flawed and not only contradicts the entire power scale of the game but ignores basically every feat Bayo has

 

[Dienomite22]

I don't care about tiering or anything. I just don't buy that Bayonetta scales to Aesir. Whether or not they both are 2-C, 2-A, or hell 1-A I don't care.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Well then keep me.neutral on scaling for now. I'll chime in later at night after dinner.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Jubileus wasnt weakened though, on the contrary she was stronger than she would be normally due to posseing one of the Eyes of the world

...? My guy, Jubileus had one of the Eyes of the World, she wasnt weakened at all, she was stronger than she is normally.

Weekly. Really? One eye Jubileus has been treated as weakened literally since the profile was ******* created. you were the one who made the profile and said I quote, "Is significantly weaker using one eye of the world." Never in the history of this site have we treated Jubileus in the state she was in, in bayo 1 as equal to Aesir. If we were to go off of what you're claiming here, Bayonetta and Balder would be massively stronger than Aesir. Hell if you're claiming that Jubileus is stronger than normal in Bayo 1, than one eye jubileus would be stronger than Aesir.

This is never how we've accepted this and you know it. If you're gonna claim Jubileus in Bayo 1 is equal to Aesir you're gonna have to get that accepted first.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Abyss' evaluation is currently extrordinarily flawed and not only contradicts the entire power scale of the game but ignores basically every feat Bayo has

Your evaluation is currently extrodinarily stubborn and conveniently ignores clear cut showings from interactions throughout the entirety of the second game.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Your evaluation is currently extrodinarily stubborn and conveniently ignores clear cut showings from interactions throughout the entirety of the second game.

The interactions are Bayonetta winning her fights with Loptr, Young Loptr, and Aesir, with them only giving her momentary trouble by using hax or literally just running away. with further context, said wins are backed up by:

• The end of the previous game where she canonically beat an empowered Jubileus
  • Right Eye Jubileus is significantly stronger than her base form which is 2x stronger than Loptr as Loptr is half of base Aesir's power
• The fights in the second game where she beat Jeanne-absorbed Alraune (who was described as rivaling Queen Sheba in power)
• Her fights against Father Rodin (who is comparable to Jubileus in her prime) and Infinite Rodin (who is stronger than Sheba in her prime)
  • (Of note, Rodin himself outright states at the end of his fights with her that she stomped him)
• The fights in Muspelheim where she outright beats both forms of Loptr as well as Aesir
• The guidebook outright confirming that Loptr in both forms had to resort to trickery as Bayo would have won otherwise

So no, the one who is conveniently ignoring evidence here is you.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

The interactions are Bayonetta winning her fights with Loptr, Young Loptr, and Aesir, with them only giving her momentary trouble by using hax or literally just running away. with further context, said wins are backed up by:

• The end of the previous game where she canonically beat an empowered Jubileus
  • Right Eye Jubileus is significantly stronger than her base form which is 2x stronger than Loptr as Loptr is half of base Aesir's power
• The fights in the second game where she beat Jeanne-absorbed Alraune (who was described as rivaling Queen Sheba in power)
• Her fights against Father Rodin (who is comparable to Jubileus in her prime) and Infinite Rodin (who is stronger than Sheba in her prime)
  • (Of note, Rodin himself outright states at the end of his fights with her that she stomped him)
• The fights in Muspelheim where she outright beats both forms of Loptr as well as Aesir
• The guidebook outright confirming that Loptr in both forms had to resort to trickery as Bayo would have won otherwise

So no, the one who is conveniently ignoring evidence here is you.

All of these I have addressed. The audacity to claim I've been ignoring evidence when you have refused to back up your claims with scans, ignoring SEVERAL replies (with scans) debunking your notation that Bayo was only slowed down by hax, and using logic not accepted on profiles.

Several people have already commented backing Glass' and my own skeptism towards scaling Bayo to 2-A

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Need to double check on the translations, last time I checked someone translated the text to say he observed multiple possibilities, not endless or infinite possibilities.

I don't know much about translating personally but this feels like it should be tackled first ^. I'd hate to go through all this arguing just for it to turn out useless anyways.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

All of these I have adressed.

My guy, there is nothing to address, these are all feats that blatantly and canonically happened. You are effectively arguing that Bayo randomly became significantly weaker in the time between the end of Bayonetta 1 and the beginning of Bayonetta 2 to the point of being weaker than someone who is canonically half as strong as multiple bosses that she has canonically casually beaten in both games, with your evidence being that she was hit by a laser and then mindhaxxed in one fight, pushed away by her opponent who then destroyed the arena in the second fight, and then temporarily incapacitated via hax in the third, when the circumstances for all three fights have been explained to you multiple times and the evidence that backs up said circumstances has been presented multiple times.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I don't know much about translating personally but this feels like it should be tackled first ^. I'd hate to go through all this arguing just for it to turn out useless anyways.

Now that I remember I think we had a friend check it in discord, I could maybe get a scan of him

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

My guy, there is nothing to address, these are all feats that blatantly and canonically happened. You are effectively arguing that Bayo randomly became significantly weaker in the time between the end of Bayonetta 1 and the beginning of Bayonetta 2 to the point of being weaker than someone who is canonically half as strong as multiple bosses that she has canonically casually beaten in both games, with your evidence being that she was hit by a laser and then mindhaxxed in one fight, pushed away by her opponent who then destroyed the arena in the second fight, and then temporarily incapacitated in the third, when the circumstances for all three fights have been explained to you multiple times and the evidence that backs up said circumstances has been presented multiple times.

Okay lmao. I'm not wasting my time on this anymore. I'll let people read and decide what they think. I'll just wrap this up by saying these few things. One eye Jubileus being > Loptr is something we've never accepted on profiles. I have never mentioned mindhax as evidence of loptr being stronger than bayo. The arena being destroyed shouldn't have been a problem for bayo in the second fight considering that she can fly. And bayo was clearly overpowered well before being incapacitated through the eye.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The arena being destroyed shouldn't have been a problem for bayo in the second fight considering that she can fly.

Friendly reminder that this happened in literally the same fight


For reference, Rodin in his base form alone is casually stronger than a bloodlusted Madama Butterfly


and Bayo stomped both of his prime forms

And bayo was clearly overpowered well before being incapacitated through the eye.

Again, via the weakness of the Left Eye



Someone else forcibly activating the Left Eye against Bayo's will temporarily incapacitates her

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Friendly reminder that this happened in literally the same fight


For reference, Rodin in his base form alone is casually stronger than a bloodlusted Madama Butterfly


and Bayo stomped both of his prime forms

Why is all that relevant? Like at all? He drags a rock from outer space cool and all but that isn't his own striking strength, heck at the end he just slaps her ass and she stays down.

Again, via the weakness of the Left Eye



Someone else forcibly activating the Left Eye against Bayo's will temporarily incapacitates her

The left eye thing happens after he ragdolls Bayo through all the fight tho, the argument would work if he did that first to defeat her not after he has her eating dirt

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Why is all that relevant? Like at all? He drags a rock from outer space cool and all but that isn't his own striking strength, heck at the end he just slaps her ass and she stays down.


The left eye thing happens after he ragdolls Bayo through all the fight tho, the argument would work if he did that first to defeat her not after he has her eating dirt

I added more videos to the response

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Still waiting for the guidebook scan saying that Loptr would've lost if he didnt flee btw.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

wait 3 years

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

The Bayo 3 wait was just training for this.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Lol

 

[BayonettaxMinaj]

Okay time to settle this.

Loptr being above Bayonetta is equally inconsistent. I’ve addressed the Kid Loptr fight with it’s inconsistencies and Val somewhat agreed. But really, Balder absorbed Loptr’s soul & contained his power prior to being sent 500 years back to the past & becoming Father Balder. This would mean that Father Balder from the 1st game would have his own power-(+500 years to cultivate it making it stronger), Loptr’s power, an additional 500 years of negative energy, and the Right Eye-(via absorbing Young Cereza) putting him WAY above even Right-Eye Loptr.

Jubileus technically should be stronger than every variation of Loptr, including Endgame Loptr with the Right Eye.

2.) The strategy guide says that after the erasure of the eyes it’s not a fight just a beat down. It also states that Bayonetta wore down his vitality and pushed him to the point of exhaustion prior to Loki erasing the Eyes.

3.) Lastly as for the “inconsistency” of my Muspilhiem scan, I’ve proven that Bayonetta scales to Aesir & why using Loptr to debunk that is foolish because his showing go against everything in the 1st game. However, as I’ve stated, Bayonetta has defeated the Loptr variants & Aesir solo in Muspilhiem.
-Muspilhiem is a canonical setting in the lore & we’re introduced to it in the story.
-The Witch Trials are the Lost Chapters with verses & an established setting. Plus they’re only accessible through the story so comparing them to a separate training room like the Void or separate game like the Bloody Palace is asinine. It being extra stages doesn’t take away from the solid fact that it’s a part of the main campaign and lore.

Bayonetta accomplishing the Muspilhiem feat is valid simply due to the fact that the power of the Eyes of the World was replaced by Free Will & spread amongst humanity.

 

[BayonettaxMinaj]

All this being said, I’m happy pretty much everyone agrees with 2-A for Aesir at least.

As for the rest, I’ve dropped scans and receipts as to why Bayonetta is comparable to Aesir in the Final Fight and their rematch in Muspilhiem. You guys find it inconsistent because of Loptr & I find Loptr incredibly inconsistent because he contradicts the entire 1st game. If you guys can provide proof outside of 3 cutscenes, I’ll concede. Til then I stand on 2-A Bayonetta.

 

[Comicgyal]

I’m off now, will be responding to anything worth responding to, and will try not to double back.

Reacting involves speed, I'm not arguing about Bayo being on Loptr's speed level, I agree that she's equal in that regard. We're talking about AP here. Struggling for 15 seconds is quite a lot against someone who people in this thread are portraying to be vastly inferior to Bayo.

Also might I add that this is Loptr at his weakest. He's been feeding off of human hatred to increase his strength for the following 500 years, so this is loptr at his worst.

Since a lot of these instances are left up to interpretation, I won’t automatically discredit anyone’s opinion. However, there are definitely some things that I suppose can be cleared up.

For one, there is no large power difference between any of the Aesir forms, until he gets both eyes. Loptr, Prophet, Aesir, they’re all the same being. To say that one is > the other, I feel is a bit baseless. You could argue that Prophet might have more experience than Loptr, or more hax from what he’s shown, sure. But there is no instance to site, where you could claim a boost in tier happened.

With that in mind, why does Bayonetta struggle? Well, I feel that it’s a bit obvious, to keep the plot moving. Bayonetta cannot beat Loptr in the past, because then he wouldn’t have killed Rosa. It has to progress a certain way. We also have to realize that Bayonetta isn’t fighting to kill all the time, in Bayonetta 1 her serious mode is when she’s going all out. In Bayonetta 2 when she activated her eye against Gomorrah, it shows that she’s being very serious.

Loptr claimed that he wanted to kill Bayonetta, but was ultimately unable to. All he managed to do was blow her back and destroy the tower. If you call that struggling, or him “beating” her, then we clearly have different definitions of beat. If he was blatantly stronger than her, there would be no back and forth. The prophet fight he blasted her and mindhaxxed, and Bayonettas focus was partially directed towards Loki as well. In the Prophet fight he destroyed summons and stole her eye, he didn’t beat her into the ground or anything like that.

Correct, but this performance against Aesir doesn't add up when he's performed better against her in encounters in his SIGNIFICANTLY weaker forms.

This would make sense if she and Balder didn’t perform extraordinarily well against two eyed Aesir. Bayonetta fought aesir by herself for some time as well. So in a situation where the fate of everything is at stake, and she actually understands what’s going on (Bayonetta had made it clear in her previous fights that she’s still out of the loop a bit) she did just fine.

I’m not going to be circular with this thread, so let’s all try not to keep debating how a fight went, when that’s all opinionated.

Prove that Weakened Jubileus > Loptr. Father Rodin scaling to Jubileus was determined to be iffy for scaling reasons and lack of insight on Jubileus' current state when Rodin resided in Paradiso. Alraune has no proof of being strong enough to match queen Sheba aside from her saying "I feel like I can become the queen of this realm." She has utterly no feats to back it up and her credibility is not very good considering that her entire character design is being ******* insane and mentally ill.

Weakened Jubileus was still capable of uniting the trinity, and was able to create multiple universes. That’s more than anything Loptr has shown. Also why was Rodin considered iffy again?
The two are of the exact same rank. I suppose some would have issue of Bayonetta 1 > Father Rodin = Full power Jubileus. But given the beat down that she gave one eyed jubileus, I don’t think it’s an issue.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

All this being said, I’m happy pretty much everyone agrees with 2-A for Aesir at least.

Well based off the translation provided yes, but it seems there could potentially be a contradicting translation so again we might wanna get that out of the way before we get too deep into arguing over scaling.

I’ll try to respond to the points made by comic and you when I can. I’ve got an education to prioritize first after all.

 

[Comicgyal]

Unsure why the translation is being called into question. The person I had translate the scan has translated for this site before.

Unless you’re asking someone with decent Japanese knowledge, I fail to see the reason to wait.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I don’t know the person, I just saw glass mention it and thought it should be addressed.

 

[Comicgyal]

Well until glass comes back, we should continue as normal.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, he does deserve a chance to respond at least.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Uncountable and countable is something solely userd by us on the wiki for low1C or 2A.

Fiction doesn't care about battleboarding lingo and hyperspecific mathematical terms. So even simple infinite is enough for low1C.

I don't expect creators to care about powerscaling or the mathematics of infinity. I'm not asking what kind of infinity the scan is actively implying, I'm just asking what kind it should be construed as given the context.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Well low1C wouldn't be farfetched in this context imo, infinite genuinely works for both L1C or 2A

 

[Comicgyal]

Bump

 

[Ruhyah]

Bump

 

[Theglassman12]

Alright, finally back from exams.

@WeeklyBattles I bring this up because that's what's accepted on the pages in Loptr's base form without the eyes.
> Low Multiverse level (Defeated Bayonetta on several occasions)
If you're going to play dumb again I'm not going to bother discussing this with you as you've shown time and time again to dodge my questions and fail to provide scans for entire discussions. Unless you want to back up your claims and actually post scans, let Comicgyal argue from here on out cause she at least can bother to provide scans for her claims.

@Comicgyal you do realize that putting someone out of commission is the exact same thing as beating them in a fight right? Nothing about this is remotely different as it means the exact same thing. This isn't one situation where she lost to Loptr, she lost like 3 times before he became Aesir, once in his base form in front of Inferno, the second as a child, and the third when he only had one eye, the only time she remotely had a chance against Loptr was when his powers got erased by Loki and had Balder to help her plus a gigantic goddess summon to finish off Loptr. You can say that it's disregarded but the reasonings is still on the page so you have to argue against Loptr being stronger than Bayo, which flies in the face of the entire scaling shown in the game itself.

@BayonettaxMinaj and when exactly is that muspelheim achievable again? Is it at any point in time before you get to the final boss fight? Because if so you shot your argument in the foot as a weaker loptr still stomped Bayonetta in the story cutscenes despite this random muspelheim challenge having her beat a stronger version of Loptr. I'm not taking the muspelheim stuff seriously as that contradicts showings in the game.

Anyways I found the raw text plus translations.

光と闇と混沌。 原初より分かたれた三つの世界のうち、混沌を統べる存在、それがエーシルである。 「「歴史の観測者」たる力を持ったエーシルは、 我々とは全く違う次元に生き、起こり得る複数の可能性が同時に重なり合った状態の歴史を、時空を超越した視点から観測していたとされる。 「エーシル」 という名は、人類の言葉で 「神」を表すが、信仰や崇拝、教や理想の金によるものではなく、単に人類にとって一切の理解が及ばない超自然の存在に対し、他に表現する 言葉が見当たらなかったために用いら れた、というのが実際のところであろう。 そしてノアトゥーンに残る伝承が真実な らば、この混沌の神を、「ロキ」「ロプト」 という2つの人格”に分裂せしめたのは、 人類自身である。 エーシルは自らの“世界の目”の力を人 類に与え、それにより人類は「選択」 の概念を得た。しかしそれは同時に 「勝利」と「敗北」、「真実」と「虚 偽」の概念をも生み出すこととなった。 憎しみ、裏切り、嫉妬、朝り。「選択」 の概念は瞬く間に人類の間で麻薬の ように消費され、やがて人類に力を 与えたエーシル自身も、再び力を求める 「強い情念を呼び覚ましたーー。 「時空超越」の力を持つエーシルが 「観測者」たる力を取り戻すという ことは、現在、過去、未来に至るまで 世界の全ての命運が掌握されると いうことである。だがそのエーシルに心を植え付けたのは、紛れもなく 人類なのだ。力を取り戻したエーシル が何を行おうとも、それは人類全体の 罪であると言えるのではないだろうか...

Light, darkness, and chaos.
Of the three worlds that have been divided since the beginning, Aesir is the one who controls chaos.
It is said that Aesir, who possessed the power to be an "observer of history," lived in a dimension completely different from our own and observed history from a perspective that transcended time and space, a state in which multiple possibilities overlapped at the same time.
The name "Aesir," which means "god" in the language of mankind, was not a term of faith, worship, teaching, or ideals, but rather simply because there was no other word to describe a supernatural being that was beyond the comprehension of mankind. And if the legends of Noatun are true, it was mankind itself that divided the god of chaos into two personalities, "Loki" and "Loput.
Aesir gave humanity the power of his "eye of the world," which gave humanity the concept of "choice. But it also gave rise to the concepts of "victory" and "defeat," "truth" and "falsehood. Hate, betrayal, jealousy, and lust. The concept of "choice"
The concept of "choice" was quickly consumed by mankind like a drug, and eventually Aesir himself, who had empowered mankind, once again awakened a "strong passion" for power.
The Aesir, who possesses the power to "transcend time and space," regains the power of "observer," which means that the fate of the entire world, from the present, to the past, to the future, is in his hands. However, it is unmistakably mankind that has planted its mind in Aesir. Whatever the Aesir does after regaining its power, it will be the sin of humanity as a whole...

The original text never once said endless or infinite possibilities not only that but in the original text they used this kanji here "複数" which translates to multiple, several, plural. These kanji 無限 (infinite) or 無数 (countless/endless) are not present whatsoever in the text. So yeah I hard disagree with 2-A Bayonetta. At best it's just 2-C.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Alright, finally back from exams.

@WeeklyBattles I bring this up because that's what's accepted on the pages in Loptr's base form without the eyes.
> Low Multiverse level (Defeated Bayonetta on several occasions)
If you're going to play dumb again I'm not going to bother discussing this with you as you've shown time and time again to dodge my questions and fail to provide scans for entire discussions. Unless you want to back up your claims and actually post scans, let Comicgyal argue from here on out cause she at least can bother to provide scans for her claims.

You do realize that this thread is revising those pages to change those descriptions right? Because theyre not accurate at all? And i dont appreciate your claim that Comic is the only one posting scans when ive provided just as many clips from the games as proof of my arguments.