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Jubileus and Aesir upgrade?

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WeeklyBattles said:
@Paradox Because you actually learn firsthand what actually happened and what theyre capable of? As opposed to just reading vague interpretations of what happened from documents hundreds of years old?
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She doesn't, Luka has to tell her what happened.

She doesn't ever "learn firsthand" anything about what Loptr or Jubileus are capable of, others have to tell her what they are capable of - which is the exact same thing the documents state
 
Luka and Antonio's credibility i think?

You might want to read Paradox's long response above

Fourth time I ask for people to stop bringing Antonio up and acting like I ever mentioned his name. He has zero relevance to the discussion.
 
I think what weekly is trying to say is that luka hasn't experienced these legends or witnessed them himself, the only thing that luka has to go off of for his work is Antonio notes and potentially Rodin which isn't even confirmed so we can't list him as 100% credible
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Yeah, not reading all that. Anyone got a tl;dr?
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TL;DR of my post is that the statements made about a "new history arising/being created" or "time beginning again" are not referring to space and time being resetted, but rather the traces and records of the history/past of the previous universe being destroyed, and as such the history being replaced with a new one.
 
Looking at the posts as I really had no choice in this matter, I can see both sides honestly. Will remain neutral. As I don't care to heavily debate anything right now...not worth it.
 
Crimson Shadow101 said:
I think what weekly is trying to say is that luka hasn't experienced these legends or witnessed them himself, the only thing that luka has to go off of for his work is Antonio notes and potentially Rodin which isn't even confirmed so we can't list him as 100% credible
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It literally doesn't matter if Luka hasn't seen Jubileus universe-bust for himself. Nobody has. The only reason we even say Jubileus or Loptr can universe-bust and -recreate is because those who know of the ancient legends say they can because of the verse's lore, and Luka has extensive knowledge on the legends and the lore. He is treated as knowledgeable and reliable throughout all of Bayonetta 2. He is the first to recount the legend of Aesir. He accurately describes what Loptr was going to do in the "era" scene and Father Balder, who was literally right there, only adds onto what he says.
 
Yknow what im gonna remain neutral on what Paradox is saying too, i really dont have the time nor the energy to try to pick trhough whatever it is he's trying to argue

Im still in full support of the Low 2-C upgrade
 
I don't think it's that hard to understand Paradox's argument, infact it's surprisingly simple and has points that you can easily pick out in parts if you disagreed, which you did.

I'm with Paradox here, it doesn't sound like low 2-C.
 
It is Low 2-C. There are numerous blatant statements of destroying and recreating time. Paradox has yet to say anything to disprove that.
 
I retract my agreement. Neutral to the argument now, though so far Paradox is making more sense to me just because I don't agree with this "Luka is unreliable" stuff.
 
Weekly, did you actually read my first post in this thread or did you just read the very first quote I put up of the half-dozen within it and that's why this argument exists?

My whole post was meant to disprove that these three quotes Kep posted meant that time and space would be recreated and destroyed, and suggest another interpretation for them based off of surrounding context.

No statement ever explicitly states they would destroy and recreate time and space. If such a statement existed, I wouldn't even be arguing this. Rather, they're all respectively "time will be reborn", "give rise to a new history", "the Eyes can create history"
 
I did read them and nothing you posted disproves the feats being Low 2-C. Aesir escaping through time to be reborn so he could reset the universe at a later time does not disprove the feat itself being Low 2-C.
 
There is no evidence the feat is Low 2-C to begin with. That's the problem.

The two "create history" statements are all explained in-context, and none of them actually mean creating space and time. As I explained, the Eyes possess the ability to record moments in history as "memories", and to view events from the past, present and future in the form of visions, and this is the ability the two clans use to "oversee history". "Creating history" refers to nothing more than this.

The "time will be reborn" statement is tangled with the former two, as well.
 
Dude, we're not even talking about the Eyes here, we're talking about Aesir and Jubileus not the Eyes.

Im getting all of the Low 2-C statements together
 
Low 2-C is described as a character being able to create/destroy an entire timeline balder said with jubileus at full power time will begin anew. Time it self will begin anew that is creating a new timeline how is that not a low 2-C feat
 
The Low 2-C feats being discussed. Prove that the Eyes themselves were what performed the feats rather than just empowering Jubileus and Aesir to be able to do so.
 
Crimson Shadow101 said:
Low 2-C is described as a character being able to create/destroy an entire timeline balder said with jubileus at full power time will begin anew. Time it self will begin anew that is creating a new timeline how is that not a low 2-C feat
Click to expand...
Because, as I have said a dozen times in this thread already, there is no particular reason to interpret that statement as meaning that time and space will be literally resetted, considering other interpretations exist that are backed up by more context and don't require Low 2-C Jubileus.
 
That's like saying "Prove the Triforce turned the Sacred Realm into the Dark World instead of giving Ganondorf the power to do so". How is it relevant at all to the major picture?
 
Because your argument is that the eyes themselves were what caused the feats rather than the characters they empowered, which is wrong.
 
How is this proof that its not a time reset?

Don't shift the goalposts and strawman me. You asked me for proof that the Eyes' powers were going to be responsible instead of Jubileus's own powers after being empowered by them, and that's the quote I'm using.

For the proof that it isn't a time reset...well, I have spent many a long posts in this thread posting it.
 
Paradox

You literally posted a quote that says its a time reset to try to prove that its not a time reset
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Paradox You just saying that its not doesnt make it right
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I perfectly agree with you here that "because I said so!" isn't a valid form of debating. That's why I use "because the game says so" instead, with scans.
 
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