Rosa has no business being Tier 6

[ZXareo]

As can be seen here, Rosa is listed at "At Least High 6-A, Higher with Umbran Armor".



I find this quite bizarre, no doubt a result of dated profiles.



Throughout the Witch Hunts, Bayonetta and Rosa are repeatedly shown as equals, mirroring each other completely.



In her entry in Bayonetta 2, Rosa is described as the possibly the most powerful witch in history: "An Umbra Witch unparalleled in skill, thought to possibly be the strongest in the entire history of the clan."

Whilst you may be inclined to pick at the wording of "thought to possibly be" and "entire history of the clan", the message is plainly put across that Rosa is a powerhouse, and the message is obviously directed at the viewer. Does reading that seriously translate to "An Umbra Witch of unparallelled skill at the time, who may have but not anymore be the strongest in the clan, in the past"?


In her Bayonetta 3 Beta4 entry, she's plain out described as more powerful than Bayonetta, albeit her own Bayonetta.
We must note that in the Beta4 timeline, Balder is the one to perish in what's presumed to be the Sage Hunts, referencing real world events in France. That is to say, Balder was similarly vulnerable as Rosa was in the main timeline during the hunt, except that in the Beta4 timeline there was no Loptr to at the end to finish them off.

Some people downplay Rosa due to her death to Loptr, however in the original timeline this was was due to her saving Balder.
By applying the logic that Jeanne saving Bayonetta from Gomorrah and dying in the process means that Bayonetta would have suffered the same fate, Balder would have been the one to die in this scenario if Rosa didn't body block for him.

In the timeline Bayonetta returned to, Rosa was killed by Loptr after an unknown duration of fighting. We cannot say that Rosa was inferior to Bayonetta here, since Loptr has also beaten Bayonetta on every occassion they have fought.


When Rosa is described to be equal to, and has evidence that implies to Rosa even being superior to Bayonetta and Balder, of whom are a whole five tiers higher than her on this site, I'd say some adjustments are in order.

I propose upgrading Rosa to the common rank of Low 1-C, as well as her general stats (such as speed, durability, etc) matching her husband and daughter once more.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Kinda neutral here. I’ll lean towards agreeing but saying Rosa dying was due to saving Balder is a funny way to work around saying she got one shot. And yes, loptr has beat bayo as well but bayos never been killed by loptr. In Rosa’s 2 showdowns with him, she gets one shot in one scenario and Loptr has no signs of wear down in the other. Both of her interactions with Loptr ends in her being dead on the ground.

The Jeanne analogy also doesn’t apply here because saying the other would have died isn’t a claim we can assert considering it didn’t happen and isn’t just something we can assume simply because they jumped in the way.

Jeanne’s case we can also definitely say is an outlier since Gomorrah one shotting her is clearly contradictory to the showings she’s previously had, whereas Rosa doesn’t have that same resume when it comes to fighting loptr tier people and is only backed up by statements.

 

[ZXareo]

Kinda neutral here. I’ll lean towards agreeing but saying Rosa dying was due to saving Balder is a funny way to work around saying she got one shot. And yes, loptr has beat bayo as well but bayos never been killed by loptr. In Rosa’s 2 showdowns with him, she gets one shot in one scenario and Loptr has no signs of wear down in the other. Both of her interactions with Loptr ends in her being dead on the ground.

The Jeanne analogy also doesn’t apply here because saying the other would have died isn’t a claim we can assert considering it didn’t happen and isn’t just something we can assume simply because they jumped in the way.

Jeanne’s case we can also definitely say is an outlier since Gomorrah one shotting her is clearly contradictory to the showings she’s previously had, whereas Rosa doesn’t have that same resume when it comes to fighting loptr tier people and is only backed up by statements.

She wasn't oneshot by Loptr, she was already injured prior to Loptr appearing at all. In fact, Loptr prioritised killed Rosa over killing Bayonetta despite knocking Bayonetta cleanly out in their second fight. In the first fight, Loki saved her and in the final fight, Balder saved her.
Rosa had no safety net there and Loptr never shows any signs of ware.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

She wasn't oneshot by Loptr, she was already injured prior to Loptr appearing at all.

This is true, I did forget about this, but that begs the question how was she injured enough to the point where she couldn’t stand? In the flashback portrayal Rosa wasn’t fighting Loptr, since he was hiding in the shadows. Rosa was up against purely angels, which we’ve seen Jeanne and Bayo fight and end up unscathed as far up to the point where Rosa is dead/severely injured.

In fact, Loptr prioritised killed Rosa over killing Bayonetta despite knocking Bayonetta cleanly out in their second fight. In the first fight, Loki saved her and in the final fight, Balder saved her.
Rosa had no safety net there and Loptr never shows any signs of ware.

In the first fight, although she did get beat she still withstood a multitude attacks from loptr and did have some back and forth with him at times in the fight as shown in QTE. Final fight, Loptr was already equipped with the Right eye and had an advantage through the sovereign power and was a stronger Loptr than Rosa fought.

Again, I’m neutral since there are some points going for her that kinda indicate her being up with bayo tier folks, but her run ins with loptr still kinda seem big anti-featish

 

[ZXareo]

Final fight, Loptr was already equipped with the Right eye and had an advantage through the sovereign power and was a stronger Loptr than Rosa fought.

Endgame Loptr didn't have the cards, however, and it's repeatedly shown to us that those cards have the potential to oneshot enemies that Bayonetta doesn't. And it's a certainty that Loptr is more powerful than Loki. (Don't get it twisted though, I'm not saying that Loki is beating Bayonetta in a fight.)
From what I can recall, we don't actually see Loki's cards ever hit someone and them not dying.
Here he hits the gate, not Balder. Here his cards are interrupted and hit no one. Here he gets cancelled before he can do anything.

So the only case we've seen Loki's cards do anything is when they open the gates of hell or oneshot someone.
[Edit: he doesn't oneshot Urbane (or is it Gravitas?). Feel free to call me out on this XD Then again, Urbane is a mostly spiritual entity, of which Rosa is not.]
Feel free to argue that because they never do hit someone on Balder's level, but it's a fact that they can't have Loki kill off anyone. That'd be a narrative problem.

In regard to how Rosa was injured enough from just angels, who's to say how many Joys, Gracious and Gloriouses she had to fight. This was an all out angelic invasion to retrieve the Left Eye of Darkness. They would have sent out their most powerful angels, and all it takes is one mistake to bring you to the end.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

You claim here that it's repeatedly shown that these cards can one-shot people, but the only clip you have shown of anyone getting one shot is Rosa. (Btw all your links are the same. I'm sure thats a mistake but based on the description that you put these didnt hit anyone.) So the point is essentially moot. Also the whole thing about the gates of hell thing isn't any indication that these cards have some sort of magical oneshot ability. It's clear Loki's intent with this throw was to hit the gates judging on his reaction not being surprised when he missed Balder and the door lighting up blue before opening, indicating that it wasn't opened through force.

In regard to how Rosa was injured enough from just angels, who's to say how many Joys, Gracious and Gloriouses she had to fight. This was an all out angelic invasion to retrieve the Left Eye of Darkness. They would have sent out their most powerful angels, and all it takes is one mistake to bring you to the end.

If she was Low 1-C though like this thread is advocating for, this literally wouldn't have been an issue. Again, I also have to restate that it wasn't really an issue for Bayo or Jeanne. They both were also traveling in similar areas that Rosa was and were likely to have faced similar enemies here.

 

[ZXareo]

only clip you have shown of anyone getting one shot is Rosa

My bad. I was watching this clip on loop and must have forgot to add it >.< Here.

Also the whole thing about the gates of hell thing isn't any indication that these cards have some sort of magical oneshot ability

That wasn't the point I indended. It was just another instance of the cards not hitting anyone.

They both were also traveling in similar areas that Rosa was and were likely to have faced similar enemies here.

I'll be honest...that's fair XD.
Though you can also argue that Loptr was manipulating events. He said that "The witch and the sage are still alive... / I want what they have.".
Like in present day (well, whenever The World of Chaos chapter takes place) where the angels and demons were being manipulated by Loptr. In the above clip, it's shown that Loptr was prioritising Rosa and Balder, and that he could have been sending the angels towards Rosa specifically.
(He also refers to them with the same term, trifling pests, so at least Loptr agrees with me >:[ )

 

[Grimm's_Fortitude]

BEHOLD THE POWER OF NECROMANCY!!!
Anyways, I agree with this proposal.