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Aesir upgrade
- Thread starter Tony_di_bugalu
- Start date
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Only a single one of the infinite universes would be infinitesimal compared to the infinite Inferno and Paradiso based off that quote.
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Are you meaning this quote? Because all of the universes in chaos would be infinitesimal compared to inferno. They’re all the sun of one original whole, and all got affected by it.
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Yes, which means this quote isn't relevant for this upgrade. The difference would have to be between the whole and Inferno to be relevant here, not a single universe and Inferno.
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Is solid Low 1-C accepted now? If it's still considered too iffy then perhaps an 'At least 2-A, likely Low 1-C' rating might be more fitting?
Also might want to wait for Ovens to reply again, I know he wanted to give a bit more input
Also might want to wait for Ovens to reply again, I know he wanted to give a bit more input
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The whole of chaos would still not be infinite in size in comparison to inferno.
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Still don't think the evidence is enough for even a Likely or Possibly. The quotes given have yet to prove an actual infinite difference between the whole of the World of Chaos and the other two Realms.
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It's not referring to a single universe though, Chaos is the entire realm, an infinite number of universes
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Literally says this.
Can't really be interpreted as any other way that this difference between Realms is because one is split into an infinite number of fragments which only together is comparable to the other two Realms.
It's only the whole that is 2-A, and only by being infinitely beyond that whole that you could get Low 1-C.
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Right, so then the comparison is made between the whole of Chaos, and Inferno. inferno is infinitely beyond it, which is Low 1-C.
Rabbit2002
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Can i ask: Where does "infinite number of parallel universes" come from? 無数 just means countless/immeasurable, as far as I remember we don't default it to infinite. I remember that Aesir's Lore claims to have Chaos' infinite possibilities, but does it really exist in raw as it does in its english translation?
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I fail to see your point. Sure Inferno is infinite in size, sure the World of Chaos is only infinite because of the infinite number of universes. But I don't see any evidence that suggests that Inferno is infinitely beyond the whole or that the whole isn't equal to Inferno.
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And...?
Which they are, as the whole is Chaos, which is what is transcended and what is considered finite in size compared to paradiso and inferno
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Where is your evidence of this? You've posted several quotes, but none of them poit towards the whole World of Chaos being infinitely smaller then the other two Realms.
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Well because the way it’s explained to us, whether Chaos is “whole” or not, it’s still the size of a standard universe, just broken apart. With Paradiso being thousands of times larger than that. Inferno is said to be infinite.
From the way I understood this standard:
Chaos as it’s whole being a standard universe, and Inferno being a higher level of Infinity (due to its size) makes Chaos infinitesimal in comparison.
Rabbit2002
She/Her- 2,631
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Where is this explained. The World of Chaos as a whole is equal to an infinite multiverse as a whole, which is the foundation this upgrade is built upon.
It's only the fragmented nature that makes it lesser then the other two realms, because of it's fragments being smaller then the realms that were equal to it's whole. And it's only by being infinitely larger then the 2-A whole that you could get Low 1-C.
A finite amount, so not relevant here as anything beyond supporting evidence that actually points towards a qualitative difference.
It is, but not in comparison to the World of Chaos' 2-A whole.
Universal models refers to a four dimensional construct when proving Low 1-C, which in this case is the 2-A multiverse of the World of Chaos. Which I have yet to see any evidence of Inferno being infinitely larger than the whole of.
This quotes says that because it's fragmented nature it is weaker then the other parts of the Trinity, which means if it wasn't fragmented it 2oukd be equal to them. Which means the 2-A whole is equal the the other realms.
This is supported by Rodin saying that if Singularity succeeded in his plans of erasing the fragments, that the combination of their power would be enough to upset the Trinity of the other two realms.
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And as the whole Trinity of course includes Inferno and Paradiso, how does this explaintion from Rodin match your proposal that Inferno or Paradiso is qualitatively greater then the whole of the World of Chaos.
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Where did you get this interpretation? Inferno was infinite since the beginning of the Trinity, since the very first game. So why wouldn’t it’s infinite in size, not be in comparison to the whole of chaos? Paradiso is directly compared to its whole, in a finite way, yes, but the same would have to be true for Inferno.
The realms can be superior to Chaos, but the power that Singularity would get from absorbing those Bayonettas can also be enough to destroy the Trinity. Both can be true. The way I see it, a likely could suffice.
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When have I ever said that Inferno and Paradiso aren't infinite, all I've said is that they aren't infinite in comparison to the World of Chaos.
Literally can't. The World of Chaos can't be both inferior and give enough power to destroy the whole thing. It's a illogical paradox. Rodin never mentioned anything about Eve's, neither did Singularity's lore entry. They only serve as a means to fuse the Multiverse together so it's power can be absorbed.
And something that is lesser can not give enough power to destroy two realms that you are proposing are both infinitely superior. Such logic especially won't fly when trying to argue a qualitative difference.
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I’m asking where you got that interpretation. One quote tells us that Paradiso is thousands of times larger, one quote says Inferno is infinite in size. We’re told that an event happened that made the Chaos World split and weaken, and this event wasn’t the first Armageddon, which brought about all three universes in the first place. Meaning that from the beginning, even before Chaos was made into a multiverse, Inferno was infinite in size, which would have to make it infinitely bigger than the whole of chaos. Even Paradiso, which is a standard universe, would be smaller than Inferno as a whole because it’s not stated to be infinite.
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This is where you lost me, where does anything say that Inferno was infinite in comparison to the World of Chaos before the World of Chaos split.
The only quote that mentions about Inferno being bigger is the one that says that the World of Chaos is weaker because the World of Chaos is fragmented.
The quotes that talk about Inferno being infinite simply talk about being endless and infinite and nothing comparing it to the World of Chaos' size.
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That’s the interpretation I get from the quotes. The only time a realm is directly compared to another is Paradiso and Chaos, by saying Paradiso is thousands of times larger. It then says that Inferno is infinite in size. They’re comparing and contrasting the sizes of the realms, in relation to one another. Despite not saying “inferno is infinitely bigger than x” We can assume, or rather we know it’s infinitely bigger, due to being the only realm said to be infinite in size when they’re given.
I know the sites rules are strict, but cmon, you can’t tell me that Inferno isn’t infinitely bigger when the sizes of the whole realms were given to us, and none of the realms are the size of inferno. It’s atleast good enough for some likely or possibly rating imo.
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You do know that thousands of times larger the the human world and Inferno being infinite quotes are completely seperate and not actually connected in the games. Their is no actual comparing and contrasting with these statements.
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No, the thousands of times larger quote is from an entry of an enemy of the first game, and the infinite quote comes from Queen Shebas guidebook entry. Paradiso has a statement of having an endless amount of energy, which has nothing to do with its size. So there is a lot of comparing and constrasting, the realms of compared a lot.
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Tony not being lazy is enough for my agreement by default. Jk, seriously tho I agree with premise of the thread.
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Going to be blunt, you seem very set in your ways and I doubt I am changing your opinion. So I'm just going to say that your logic doesn't hold up in my opinion, that Inferno having statements of being infinite and Paradiso of being thousands of time bigger then the human world is not enough to say that Inferno is infinite in comparison to the whole World of Chaos and Paradiso, and that none of this is proof of qualitative superiority. Especially with the basic premise of Bayonetta 3's story and what the fusion of the Multiverse entails.
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The argument isn’t just about the split, but because of the realm Inferno being infinite in size compared to it. Elaborated here:
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Still not shown actually evidence, only conjecture that isn't actually matched by the scans and quotes you present,
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I don’t understand where the conjecture comes from. It would only be conjecture if the realms were never compared, or placed in a situation where they could be compared. But the fact is, Paradiso and Chaos were both directly compared to one another, which means the realms can be compared to one another. Just because Inferno wasn’t included in their specific quote comparison, doesn’t mean it’s suddenly not comparable to the two of them.
Why would inferno not compare to the other two realms is a better question? What makes it different?
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Thousands of times bigger than the human world is far off from an infinite difference.
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That’s not the point. The point is, Paradiso and Chaos were compared to each other. It’s not an infinite difference, because Paradiso isn’t infinite in size. But Inferno is infinite, so why is it not comparable like the other two are?
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Where is this stated?
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I agree with Tony.
Whether or not Paradiso is infinite or is infinitely above a pre-existing infinite, or compared to the stated outright infinite Inferno, (all of which are compared because of the fact they exist as a Trinity), doesn't matter, because the OP is specifically noting how Aesir undebatably transcends the World of Chaos, something veratim stated to be an infinite multiverse, which is 2-A. So regardless as to how you feel the realities correlate, Aesir's part of the argument remains the same and untouched: He transcends the cosmology he created outright, and that Cosmology is 2-A, likely more. So Low 1-C is definitely understandable.
Given the arguments about the realms themselves being related, depending on the result it might make more sense to be: "At least 2-A, likely Low 1-C."
Whether or not Paradiso is infinite or is infinitely above a pre-existing infinite, or compared to the stated outright infinite Inferno, (all of which are compared because of the fact they exist as a Trinity), doesn't matter, because the OP is specifically noting how Aesir undebatably transcends the World of Chaos, something veratim stated to be an infinite multiverse, which is 2-A. So regardless as to how you feel the realities correlate, Aesir's part of the argument remains the same and untouched: He transcends the cosmology he created outright, and that Cosmology is 2-A, likely more. So Low 1-C is definitely understandable.
Given the arguments about the realms themselves being related, depending on the result it might make more sense to be: "At least 2-A, likely Low 1-C."
