Aesir upgrade

[Everything12]

No i mean, you keep saying it as though chaos is a single universe, when Chaos refers to the multiverse in its entirety

I've referred to the World of Chaos as a multiverse constantly, it's just that single scan is talking about the fact that the World of Chaos is a multiverse that is fragmented into multiple singular universes that constitue the whole.

Characters who can significantly affect spaces of qualitatively greater sizes than ordinary universal models and spaces, usually represented in fiction by higher levels or states of existence (Or "levels of infinity", as referred below) which trivialize everything below them into insignificance, normally by perceiving them as akin to fictional constructs or something infinitesimal.

Low 1-C: Low Complex Multiverse level​

Characters who can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)

Higher levels of infinity referring to uncountable infinity, two times infinity is far far far from enough to reach that.

 

[BayonettaxMinaj]

I could also make the case that each layer of the Matrix is a Multiverse and Thule connects them all. We could also argue each layer of the Human World Matrix has a different Spiritual Wavelength hence why The Umbra Witches & Lumen Sages are the only ones capable of interacting with anything & anyone regardless of realm/wavelength.

 

[Everything12]

As I said earlier about the book:

That whole book thing could just be a case of Immersion, a form of pocket dimension that has no relevance to reality-fiction relationship, would need a more direct statement of such a relationship to be qualified.

Need more elaboration to say their is a reality-fiction relationship here and that it has it's own multiverse and it instead isn’t/wasn't connected to the same Inferno as everything else is.

Or that the book isn't just a pocket dimension that isn't a full universe and contains constructs created based off objects from Inferno or an actual place in the multiverse, and that the Cereza in the book doesn't realise that everything is a fake construct in a less then universal false dimension.

Could even be a full universe sized place but sealed off from the rest of the Trinity in the book. That still wouldn't qualify for a reality-fiction relationship without further expansion.


Where is that quote about "multiverses" from, because without any expansion on this within the game itself or more than a single mention from this from a credible source, I'm more likely to believe that this is a case of mistaken word and they mean universes but are not a person well versef in the cosmology and terminology and conflated universe with the multiverse they heard mentioned in the game beforehand. Not everyone at Platinum and Nintendo are involved in the minute details of the game's creation and know the specific details inside and out.

As for the layers, that ones additional layer to the Trinity (which I already knew about and had in mind with everything zi said in this thread), in addition to each realm of the Tirnity having a different wavelength. Doesn't really tell us anything new or help reach Tier 1.


Basically, my response to pretty much most of the "evidence" you all bring forth, is that they are rather weak and can be interpreted multiple ways and that even combined the most likely option is the lower interpretation.

Plus, all of this just makes the cosmology bigger in a non-qualitative way and doesn't actually help reach Tier 1, as even an infinite multiverse times by a million and with multiple similar size realms outside of it doesn't qualify for a qualitative difference.

 

[Everything12]

After having seen the picture book for myself I say that, based off current evidence, it is more likely an artificially constructed universe/pokect dimension sealed off from the rest of the Trinity than a reality-fiction relationship. Possibly constructed based off a real location in the multiverse, my bet is on the faerie world of Lukaon.

 

[BayonettaxMinaj]

As I said earlier about the book:
Need more elaboration to say their is a reality-fiction relationship here and that it has it's own multiverse and it instead isn’t/wasn't connected to the same Inferno as everything else is.

Or that the book isn't just a pocket dimension that isn't a full universe and contains constructs created based off objects from Inferno and that the Cereza in the book doesn't realise that everything is a fake construct in a less then universal false dimension.

Somebody created a copy of the Trinity of Realities, literally writing those realities into existence in a picture book, and sealed away I don’t know what more elaboration you could need. The fact that she says, “A plant from Inferno…” implying she’s not there is enough to say the Trinity exists within it, especially when the book is about Cereza. The fact that even Rodin can’t break the seal without the keys means someone high-tier did this so I doubt it’s just a simple pocket dimension.

Where is that quote about "multiverses" from, because without any expansion on this within the game itself or more than a single mention from this from a credible source, I'm more likely to believe that this is a case of mistaken word and they mean universes but are not a person well versef in the cosmology and terminology and conflated universe with the multiverse they heard mentioned in the game beforehand. Not everyone at Platinum and Nintendo are involved in the minute details of the game's creation and know the specific details inside and out.

It came from the Game Informer article. They interviewed Kamiya and Miyada as well as the rest of the devs about the gameplay and story.

 

[BayonettaxMinaj]

After having seen the picture book for myself I say that, based off current evidence, it is more likely an artificially constructed universe/pokect dimension sealed off from the rest of the Trinity than a reality-fiction relationship. Possibly constructed based off a real location in the multiverse, my bet is on the faerie world of Lukaon.

You’re entitled to you’re interpretation but I have to strongly disagree due to more than one realm of the Trinity existing within it. She refers to herself as an Umbra Witch and mentions Inferno, therefore Purgatorio must exist there too. Plus, there’s no mention of/reference to Lukaon or the Fae so I’ll have to disregard that too. Not all fairytales have faeries after all.

 

[BayonettaxMinaj]

It’s a replica of the Trinity of Realities in Viola’s room, sealed within a picture book. Rodin couldn’t break the seal meaning someone comparable or higher made it. I understand you wanting more clarification & straightforward statements but the implications are present.

 

[Everything12]

Somebody created a copy of the Trinity of Realities, literally writing those realities into existence in a picture book, and sealed away I don’t know what more elaboration you could need. The fact that she says, “A plant from Inferno…” implying she’s not there is enough to say the Trinity exists within it, especially when the book is about Cereza. The fact that even Rodin can’t break the seal without the keys means someone high-tier did this so I doubt it’s just a simple pocket dimension.

Well no doubt Rodin not being able to break the seal means it is impressive stuff, why I say it is sealed off from the whole Trinity. But just some fauna from Inferno alone isn't enough to jump towards "their is a whole copy of the entire Trinity in that book!" when they could be just artificial constructs of Inferno fauna that was located in the section of the multiverse the book was based on.

Personally my opinion on the book is to wait to see how Platinum expands on it later, as their is little concrete known about it now and it ends on a To Be Continued.

It came from the Game Informer article. They interviewed Kamiya and Miyada as well as the rest of the devs about the gameplay and story.

I read the article, it was the person writing the article who talked about the "multiverses", not the devs being interviewed. This can be written off as a news site not understanding the minute details in cosmology and terminology. Well that or they used the wrong word, which considering their usage of the terms multiverse and universe in the other sections of the articles, is likely.

It’s a replica of the Trinity of Realities in Viola’s room, sealed within a picture book. Rodin couldn’t break the seal meaning someone comparable or higher made it. I understand you wanting more clarification & straightforward statements but the implications are present.

Less wanting and more the Wiki needs more than mere implications for such a cosmology change. So best wait for how this plot point progresses in the future and we receive actual concrete information and evidence.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bump, so is this good to apply or?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Being infinite in size compared to an infinite multiverse would be Low 1-C

Wrong, the former need to be bigger to get low 1-C

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Wrong, the former need to be bigger to get low 1-C

Thats literally not true, the tiering system page even says so

Tiering System

The following is a comprehensive overview of the hierarchical system the VS Battles Wiki utilizes to properly categorize and index fictional characters, entities, and objects based on the scale of their feats and the varying scopes that they can affect or create/destroy. Though Destructive...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Tier 1: Extradimensional​

Characters who can significantly affect spaces of qualitatively greater sizes than ordinary universal models and spaces, usually represented in fiction by higher levels or states of existence (Or "levels of infinity", as referred below) which trivialize everything below them into insignificance, normally by perceiving them as akin to fictional constructs or something infinitesimal.

Low 1-C: Low Complex Multiverse level​

Characters who can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)

 

[ImmortalDread]

You just quoted the whole tiering system, you did not refute what I said.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Also, you already answered yourself

qualitatively greater sizes than ordinary universal models and spaces

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You just quoted the whole tiering system, you did not refute what I said.

Also, you already answered yourself:
qualitatively greater sizes than ordinary universal models and spaces

In Bayonetta, Chaos is a multiverse made up of an infinite number of universes, with each universe in said multiverse paralleled by a mirror universe in the multiverse of Purgatorio. Aesir transcends this multiverse entirely, described as existing on a higher layer of space-time, as well as being on the same level as Queen Sheba, who embodies the realm of Inferno, which is described as being infinite in size compared to Chaos as a whole.

 

[ImmortalDread]

In Bayonetta, Chaos is a multiverse made up of an infinite number of universes, with each universe in said multiverse paralleled by a mirror universe in the multiverse of Purgatorio. Aesir transcends this multiverse entirely, described as existing on a higher layer of space-time, as well as being on the same level as Queen Sheba, who embodies the realm of Inferno, which is described as being infinite in size compared to Chaos as a whole.

Is that the one you talked about it in discord, or different?

Irrelevant right now, and how does he transcend it? Because being on a higher layer of space-time is kinda vague.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I also would like to quote this
"Transcend" space and time can also refer to a spacetime continuum being different to a "regular" spacetime continuum or slightly more complex, but not infinitely so."

 

[ImmortalDread]

This put me in disagreement for the same reasons as @Everything12 presented. Nothing here I see is qualitative, and superior to get tier 1.

The current Aesir (Loptr) is trying to regain its original power, the power to transcend time and space in which all the world will be in his hands to do as he pleases.

Nothing here implies tier 1.

Basically, all this proves that Aesir (the original) was a being that transcended time and space, he created the human world through visions and then gave part of his power to the humans whom he pitied. Loptr, the evil half of the God, was trying to reclaim this power and become the "observer" and when he does, he will end the world of chaos.

Nonentity here implies tier 1

Among the trinity worlds, the "chaos world" is an infinite amount of universes each overlapping each other in a multi-layered structure.
That is the "multiverse"
If you were to annihilate those universes one by one...no, annihilate isn't the exact word.
In reality, you are breaking up the multiverse...and trying to merge it into one
Like taking a thinly slice ham and shredding it...lumping it into a big chunk of mince.
If one were to really do that, they'd have the power to wipe out demons and the heavens in an instant.

Complicated 2-A structure (I find it interesting, is there any cosmology page for this)

We are told that Aesir (the original) has the power to make reality anything he sees and he spent an eternity quietly looking upon the world from his holy mountain, his "completely different dimension" from where he does so from a perspective that transcends space and time. The world was created through his visions, reality was created through his eyes.

Why are you using another fandom wiki that has absolutely no relation with the linked statement?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Irrelevant right now, and how does he transcend it? Because being on a higher layer of space-time is kinda vague.

What do you mean how? He is stated outright to transcend it and exist on a higher layer of space-time, theres not really much else to say

I wish yall were this picky with the literal definitions of singular words in other Tier 1 upgrade CRTs lol

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I have no idea of what is going on here but the whole point is that Aesir is and exists in a higher level than any regular 4D construct or even infinite of those.

That is pretty much the definition of Low 1-C as far as I can tell

 

[ImmortalDread]

What do you mean how? He is stated outright to transcend it and exist on a higher layer of space-time, theres not really much else to say

I wish yall were this picky with the literal definitions of singular words in other Tier 1 upgrade CRTs lol

Did it state infinitely, lol?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Nothing here implies tier 1.

Nonentity here implies tier 1

My mans, transcending space-time on a 2-A (Technically 2x 2-A factoring in Purgatorio) scale to the point of it being finite to you and also existing in a higher level of space-time is Low 1-C by default. At this point it feels like youre just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing lol

Complicated 2-A structure (I find it interesting, is there any cosmology page for this)

Not at the moment but there will be yes. As for the first half, that 2-A structure is only a fraction of the structure of the overall bayonetta multiverse

Why are you using another fandom wiki that has absolutely no relation with the linked statement?

Because its a direct transcript from the game?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Did it state infinitely, lol?

In what part?

 

[ImmortalDread]

My mans, transcending space-time on a 2-A (Technically 2x 2-A factoring in Purgatorio) scale to the point of it being finite to you and also existing in a higher level of space-time is Low 1-C by default. At this point it feels like youre just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing lol

Infinite x infinite is not low 1-C, where do you get this from? Not even 2-A x 2-A HUH? Ignore this part, I did not read latter.
I still need to prove that it is qualitative superior transcendence

Not at the moment but there will be yes. As for the first half, that 2-A structure is only a fraction of the structure of the overall bayonetta multiverse

It would actually be better to create one rather than creating separate CRTs for a nonexistent cosmology, hell, this will help numerous people to read through them all and see all evidence by themselves. I literally created as far 4 cosmology pages (rn doing one for Pokémon, done with the rest)

I can help you to create one, IDM.

Because its a direct transcript from the game?

So what? It shows me a whole page of the game rather than showing me shreds of evidence of the statement, tf? No one will read this.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

So what? It shows me a whole page of the game rather showing me evidences of the statement, tf? No one will read this.

IIRC the whole transcript shows the moment you open the link and I was lazy to post all of that here but we can get the scans hence why I mentioned comic in the op

 

[ImmortalDread]

IIRC the whole transcript shows the moment you open the link and I was lazy to post all of that here but we can get the scans hence why I mentioned comic in the op

Really? Let me show you the link and the statement.

The statement:

The world was created through his visions, reality was created through his eyes

The page redirects to this:

Like really? In which way is this evidence? Really? Who will read this?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Really? Let me show you the link and the statement.

The statement:

The page redirects to this:

Like really? In which way is this evidence? Really? Who will read this?

Scroll down : T

 

[ImmortalDread]

Scroll down : T

 

[PainKiller07]

scale to the point of it being finite to you

can i have the scan

 

[ImmortalDread]

can i have the scan

No