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I'm doing this again: Fire Dragon vs Dragon of Wrath
- Thread starter The_Calaca
- Start date
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Ignoring the fact he has been fighting for whole day and at one point having some of his magic drained. The fact he can still pack a punch after all the ***** he has been through is impressive enough to me.Delta3000 said:
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Re reading the arguments above, did someone equate dragon fire to normal fire? Because all they say is Natsu only eats normal flames and thus can't eat the Hellfire.
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Yes, people are calling Natsus dragon slayer fire magic the same as normal fire. They're also equalizing God Flames and Hellfire which have nothing in common besides the color.
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I wouldn't call fire came from magic as "regular fire", especially said fire can melt stone when being used by some fodder. DS fire is on higher level than that, Natsu ate GS fire with a simple trick.
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Can you find them? They're comparable in both AP and Skill. Full Counter doesn't help in melee and Natsu can eat Mel's hellfire. I don't know what they could possibly be FRAing for.Calaca Vs said:
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He fought Tempester before Mard so by your admission he was only fighting Mard for a few minutes which isn't that long, also by your admission Natsu's powered up forms drain his power which would explain why his powered up forms don't seem to last long; Hence why I say he has a stamina problem.
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- Thread starter
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I'm busy at work right now.
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Actually, LFDM specifically drains him but even that barely drains him after 2nd Origin. Natsu basically fought a bunch of fodder, fought Franmalth, fought Tempester, fought Etherious Tempester, fought Mard, fought Etherious Mard, this basically happened all day.
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In the scenario that Natsu couldn't eat Mel's flames (I'm just saying this as a possibility), Natsu would still just burn away the flames with his own. They're not dura negging, there are no special properties to them and Natsu would just burn them like he could to any basic fire magic user. Also with the fairy forest example that people keep bringing up. Saying normal fire can't burn it doesn't mean the forest has fire resistance. If Natsu couldn't burn Goku, does that mean that Goku has fire resistance? No, it means that Goku's Durability is better than Natsu's fire. (I only used Goku as an analogy to the tree to represent that with better durability, you will not be hurt by an attack weaker than yourself.) The Red Demon just had greater AP than the Forest had dura. That's all there was to it.
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^ What Blank said. He literally was having his soul absorbed and was constantly fighting. That's not bad for his stamina, that shows how good his stamina is.AnonymousBlank said:
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Delta3000 wrote:
He fought Tempester before Mard so by your admission he was only fighting Mard for a few minutes which isn't that long, also by your admission Natsu's powered up forms drain his power which would explain why his powered up forms don't seem to last long; Hence why I say he has a stamina problem.
Got captured by Silver and had his magic sealed. Fought Franmalt and got some his magic drained. Fought Tempester (more like beating the shit outta him with LFD) before Torafuzar drop an ocean onto them. Fought Mard Geer until the end. (btw the arc last long until night so it was more than few minutes).
He fought Tempester before Mard so by your admission he was only fighting Mard for a few minutes which isn't that long, also by your admission Natsu's powered up forms drain his power which would explain why his powered up forms don't seem to last long; Hence why I say he has a stamina problem.
Got captured by Silver and had his magic sealed. Fought Franmalt and got some his magic drained. Fought Tempester (more like beating the shit outta him with LFD) before Torafuzar drop an ocean onto them. Fought Mard Geer until the end. (btw the arc last long until night so it was more than few minutes).
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Probably hours.
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Also this version of Mel don't got OP Regen, since this form of Mel was cut and it didn't heal till Elizabeth healed him, the reasons for Meliodas were debunked, all he has here is his physical attacks, which is not good enough to put Natsu Down
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aye garg, no regen for mel in this form, also no flightGargoyle One said:
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Wait, was it quoted that Demon Mark and Wrath are restricted?
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If they weren't then this would be an AP stomp.
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Well, how many Gigatons would Meliodas have with Demon Mark? Incidentally, the OP is quoting "Meliodas (Unarmed)" while that key no longer exists
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I don't get the scaling. It says demon mel is high 7-a for beating Ban and Ban is high 7-a for ripping off mel's arm and then there's a bunch of the other characters with the same reasoning.
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Mel for the reasons above.
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Could you be specific? The reasons have all been debunked for Mel and the reason they're still in the OP is because the OP is at work and can't look at the thread rn.Rin The Dragon Empress said:
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I don't see anything that suggests the votes for Mel being debunked. At best they're being argued which the Mel voters haven't responded to. And my main reasons are for Full Counter, allowing Mel to hit Natsu with twice the strength, clones and better experience. I won't go into who's more skilled since both fight differently thus we can't say who's the better fighter.
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1. Natsu is not hurt by his own flames, he's been attacked by an attack that does the exact same thing as Full Counter and was completely unaffected. It multiplies the power of the opponent's attack and sends it back at them. Natsu tanked it like a joke.
Mel doesn't have clones in this form.
Better experience at what?
Mel doesn't have clones in this form.
Better experience at what?
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1: That's the thing, they won't be his flames anymore, they'll be a attack that's doubled in AP and sent back at him. I'm also curious to see when that's ever happened, I don't recall Natsu ever tanking a attack that was thrown back at him with double the force or he'd be High 7-A.
2: My bad.
3: Better experience in overall combat, he's been fighting for much longer than Natsu has and that's obvious due to his age.
2: My bad.
3: Better experience in overall combat, he's been fighting for much longer than Natsu has and that's obvious due to his age.
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I agree Natsu would be rated higher also Mel full counter has multipliers
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Overall combat doesn't really help when Natsu fights a specific way. Even if he has been fighting for longer, the soldiers during the war used swords and the angels used ark. Not much for expierence vs melee users.Rin The Dragon Empress said:
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im grabbing the multiplier thing
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I'll post the rest of the things that have been discussed.Calaca Vs said:
- Even if Natsu can eat Hellfire this Mel doesn't use it in-character. He didn't do it until he got Liz's Sword and I asked before if this would be better with Mel having said weapon but nobody answered so he'll keep unarmed.
- I don't see enough evidence to say that Mel can't FC melee attacks given that he deflected Guila's when it made contact with him and Natsu always covers his body with fire so it's easy target for Mel's FC. And no, Guila's attack wasn't a projectile because Mel deflected at close range when it made contact.
- Mel's fighting style heavily relies on counters so Natsu can't properly anticipate an enemy who waits for him to move to do his best tricks.
- I'll say it again: Mel's Full Counter can't affect Natsu but Natsu's stamina'll decrease more easily. and Mel'll be unaffected by Natsu's attacks if he can deflects they. The AP difference is negligible and Natsu has no ways to 'lol nope' Mel's attacks the same way Mel has. He'll lose energy quicker than Mel and both'll take damage due to the fact that Mel apparently has no regen in this form. But still he'll took less damage than all of you are suggesting.
- I don't know if he can use Revenge Counter if he gets too pushed or even if he can do it w/o Lostvayne. I don't remember if somebody tried to debunk this either.
Is there anything else? I probably missed something.
Mel: 8
Nat: 4
The vote count may change if someone quotes a vote without good reasons.
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Why would he lose stamina more easily because Mel used Full Counter? After the first attack he would just not cover his fists in flames. Mel wouldn't be able to reflect the flames off of Natsu's torso because he to touch the torso to to do that and Natsu would punch him before he can reach it.
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IIRC Natsu only spams his flames in every form, even against characters who can nullify/absorb/reflect them.
What did he do after he tanked his own reflected attack?
What did he do after he tanked his own reflected attack?
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The pan brothers were the only one who could and he used the surprise of tanking attack to hit them before the dude with the reflection pan could reflect it again.Calaca Vs said:
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How did he defeated them?
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They were weak, the Reflect attack was just their main trick. After Natsu dodged the pan that could Reflect, he oneshot them. Another thing to factor into this fight is that Natsu has Rage Power and will get stronger as the fight goes on. Multiple things could piss him off, like the reflection of his attacks and the enemy being annoying to fight.
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Mel FRA
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What reasons?
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What I meant is HOW did he defeated them.DragonEmperor23 said:
Rage Power is a boost yeah but when Natsu's rages he uses his magic even more. A good hit'll damage Mel but that doesn't null the FC. And being angry make you use more energy in your attacks so he'll be wasting more energy.
And stop asking every single person what reasons are they voting. I wrote a summary above and the majority has read the thread.
@Astral
Counted.
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Except when Natsu gets angry, he will hit harder and defeat Mel before he gets tired.
Your summary was just that Natsu would run out of stamina first and Mel would win.
Your summary was just that Natsu would run out of stamina first and Mel would win.
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I said that Natsu'll hit harder. IDK why are you pointing this. Rage Power only increases his power unless you prove that speed gets increased aswell to blitz Meliodas turning the FC useless.DragonEmperor23 said:
Of course you're missing the part where I stated that Natsu could eat Hellfire but Mel's unlikely to do it in this key.
Or the fact that Natsu is a better fighter despite Mel's experience. I'll add that if Mel goes offensive he'll fall at Natsu's best department.
He's stronger and more skilled and can win if Mel goes crazy or underestimate Natsu.
Current situation is Mel winning cause he has some advantages that doesn't entirely counter Natsu but still works. I just summarized the thread. That's why I went to that end.
