Natsu vs Meliodas rematch

[Robo432343]

Natsu slams

 

[ByAsura]

Ngl, I think this should be closed until the hax CRTs and the current NNT stuff is concluded.

Night amp is 2x MAGIC it won’t hold no weight except maybe in RC.

That's for vampires, who also receive an amp to their physical abilities and not just magic. We haven't accepted that for Demons.

 

[Makai641001]

Also Mel doesn't fight skill gods in NNT either so this point isn't very convincing for why it's some sort of edge on Natsu.

Excalibur/Chaos Arthur
We agreed on skills not being an interesting part to the conversation anyway so idek why Speedster would keep going with skill feats.

Meliodas has:
AP advantage
RC one shot
Huge rage amp boost
Outlasting Natsu (depends if we argue about FC not being his main magic to start the fight with)
LS advantage

And maybe other wincons

I think we should close this thread it’ll probably be filled with trolling etc…

 

[Makai641001]

Ngl, I think this should be closed until the hax CRTs and the current CRT is concluded.

Agreed

That's for vampires. We haven't accepted that for Demons.

Didn’t we accept it amping Magic and physicals for Vamps and just magic for demons ?

 

[ByAsura]

No. We just accepted a vague night amp for Demons, which is currently on the profiles.

Speed argued for it a bunch, but we literally had no evidence and they're a different species.

 

[ByAsura]

Also, what doubles at night is a Vampire's power level.

So, we're not even sure if that's a linear 2x boost (examples in the series show that it can be linear or non-linear).

 

[Makai641001]

No. We just accepted a vague night amp for Demons, which is currently on the profiles.

Speed argued for it a bunch, but we literally had no evidence and they're a different species.

Okay I misremembered Chandler’s statement being a 2 times night amp.

Also, what doubles at night is a Vampire's power level.

So, we're not even sure if that's a linear 2x boost (examples in the series show that it can be linear or non-linear).

We should look at the raw to see if the kanjis that are used differ from the « combat class » ones.

 

[ByAsura]

I think the raws are in the databook. I'll try to find them.

 

[ByAsura]

Combat Class is 闘級.

This says 闘級 with the same highlighting as the translated scan above.

 

[Makai641001]

Combat Class is 闘級.

This says 闘級 with the same highlighting as the translated scan above.

Yeah I think we shouldn’t use the 2x amp for vamps.

I think closing this until the profiles are completed is a good idea

 

[Deceived3596]

I don't see much of a difference from the high 6-C scaling they scale to

Natsu scales to 130 gigatons in his Black Fire Dragon Mode.

Meliodas downscales from 640 in base, and has access to a 2x amp which he uses in-character and can activate with a thought.

Meliodas having a nearly 5x AP advantage in just base alone isn't something that's small, at that level basic attacks from Meliodas would heavily injure or even kill Natsu while Natsu's physical attacks would do next to no damage, like Meliodas's air pressure would split Natsu in half similarly how it did against Drole. It also doesn't help Natsu's case that, just like Meliodas, he's a primarily close range fighter. Which wouldn't bode well for him in this instance given the massive AP disparity.

People need to read these values before making conclusions, y'all acting like these mfs have comparable AP when they don't.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

 

[Makai641001]

Natsu scales to 130 gigatons in his Black Fire Dragon Mode.

Meliodas downscales from 640 in base, and has access to a 2x amp which he uses in-character and can activate with a thought.

Meliodas having a nearly 5x AP advantage in just base alone isn't something that's small, at that level basic attacks from Meliodas would heavily injure or even kill Natsu while Natsu's physical attacks would do next to no damage, like Meliodas's air pressure would split Natsu in half similarly how it did against Drole. It also doesn't help Natsu's case that, just like Meliodas, he's a primarily close range fighter. Which wouldn't bode well for him in this instance given the massive AP disparity.

People need to read these values before making conclusions, y'all acting like these mfs have comparable AP when they don't.

They just didn’t state the value for Natsu

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

They just didn’t state the value for Natsu

I normally avoid participating in NNT threads with important characters so sorry for not helping here with either side

Decieved giving the AP value would postpone the votes and the grace unless the FT side can argue back

 

[speedster352]

Ngl, I think this should be closed until the hax CRTs and the current NNT stuff is concluded.

If only we could tag the staff to look at the nnt crt but oh well

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The argument for why the AP originally didn’t matter was that Natsu can just nom one of Mel’s moves and scale above him.

The alternative and logical approach would just be to switch it to Natsu’s 4th key where we can go back to ignoring the AP difference in it’s entirety and also toss out the stamina wincon for Mel. No way in hell Speed just happened to pick a form with a time limit that drops Natsu to a tier below when it runs out, didn’t even give the strongest form in that key, and also missed the key right next to it that scales to the same stuff but lacks the stamina issue. Oh and him making the match at night where Mel is amped and Natsu’s BFDM isn’t passively getting stronger from absorbing sources of light.

Man is pretty clearly fishing for a dub on Mel’s profile lmao

 

[Deceived3596]

The argument for why the AP originally didn’t matter was that Natsu can just nom one of Mel’s moves and scale above him.

I'm pretty sure Natsu only gets unquantifiably stronger after consuming some flames (could be wrong), like being unquantifiably stronger than previously doesn't really negate the massive quantifiable AP differential between the characters, even ignoring the facts that:

1. Meliodas doesn't really use Darkness attacks like Purgatory Fire in this key, he mostly uses his physical AP and skill, alongside his Demon Mark. So it's unlikely that Natsu would even get this amp in the first place.

2. Meliodas can activate his Demon Mark and negate any unquantifiable amp Natsu gets from eating his darkness or flames. It would also be in that oneshot range when compared to Natsu's BFDM as it would make Meliodas nearly 10x stronger than Natsu.

Man is pretty clearly fishing for a dub on Mel’s profile lmao

Speedster moment.

 

[Makai641001]

The argument for why the AP originally didn’t matter was that Natsu can just nom one of Mel’s moves and scale above him.

From what Deceived said it doesn’t add up the 640 gt value to Natsu’s AP.
Rage amps will anyway kick in

The alternative and logical approach would just be to switch it to Natsu’s 4th key where we can go back to ignoring the AP difference in it’s entirety and also toss out the stamina wincon for Mel.

We asked Speedster already

No way in hell Speed just happened to pick a form with a time limit that drops Natsu to a tier below when it runs out, didn’t even give the strongest form in that key, and also missed the key right next to it that scales to the same stuff but lacks the stamina issue.

I think we better use that 4th key

Oh and him making the match at night where Mel is amped and Natsu’s BFDM isn’t passively getting stronger from absorbing sources of light.

Let’s make it day then but night is an unquantifiable amp anyway

Man is pretty clearly fishing for a dub on Mel’s profile lmao

I don’t think so else he wouldn’t have restricted enchantments and Demon marks Mel would’ve one shotted.

 

[Makai641001]

2. Meliodas can activate his Demon Mark and negate any unquantifiable amp Natsu gets from eating his darkness or flames. It would also be in that oneshot range when compared to Natsu's BFDM as it would make Meliodas nearly 10x stronger than Natsu.

Speedster had restricted Demon marks and enchantments.

Meliodas stays at 640 gt far higher with rage power.

If Natsu’s 4th key stays at the same value Rage amped Meli would one shot anyway.

I think it’s a stomp and shouldn’t be added to either profiles.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I'm pretty sure Natsu only gets unquantifiably stronger after consuming some flames (could be wrong), like being unquantifiably stronger than previously doesn't really negate the massive quantifiable AP differential between the characters, even ignoring the facts that:

Nah. Every Slayer consuming an element from an outside source stronger than them scales above the source to a ridiculous degree of one shotting. A tiny fragment of Etherion had Natsu clowning Jellal, Flames of Rebuke from an exhausted Jellal had an empty Natsu back to x3 his base, eating Laxus’ lightning let an exhausted Natsu pinball Hades around despite Hades being pretty much unharmed by Laxus seconds ago, eating Possessed Rogue’s Shadows let Gajeel reverse the stomp in their fight, Natsu ate Atlas Flame’s fire and one shot WSDM FR and Motherglare (Motherglare tanked all of Atlas’ attacks without a scratch), Natsu gets rid of all his magic to absorbs some of Zancrow’s flames and one shots him, Sting eats Rogue’s shadows and can stomp Larcade who was stomping both of them and Kagura, Ice Devil Gray absorbs Invel’s True Ice Kamui and one shots the latter etc. For the profiles, we just say the two APs are added together for Initial Dual Element Modes since we don’t know exactly how much stronger they get.

1. Meliodas doesn't really use Darkness attacks like Purgatory Fire in this key, he mostly uses his physical AP and skill, alongside his Demon Mark. So it's unlikely that Natsu would get this amp.

Aka Speed knowingly made a spite match lol

2. Meliodas can activate his Demon Mark and negate any unquantifiable amp Natsu gets from eating his darkness or flames. It would also be in that oneshot range of AP different when compared to Natsu's BFDM.

Agree it one taps BFDM Natsu.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

From what Deceived said it doesn’t add up the 640 gt value to Natsu’s AP.
Rage amps will anyway kick in

No offense to Deceived but I think I know FT better than him lmao

 

[Makai641001]

No offense to Deceived but I think I know FT better than him lmao

So how do we proceed with Meli having different one shot gaps ?

I think we should consider it a stomp and not add it anywhere.

 

[ByAsura]

So it's a complete stomp if even base Meliodas, who is mainly a physical fighter at this point, doesn't use Hellblaze or Darkness?

And a total one-shot if he uses Lostvayne?

 

[Makai641001]

So it's a complete stomp if even base Meliodas, who is mainly a physical fighter at this point, doesn't use Hellblaze?

And a total one-shot if he uses Lostvayne or his Demon Marks, if not both?

From what Deceived said even his air slashes could one shot even though it’s not a 7.5x gap

 

[ByAsura]

It's not a 7.5x gap with his fists in base form, but Lostvayne's airslashes alone can one-shot/dismember opponents as durable as himself.

 

[Makai641001]

It's not a 7.5x gap with his fists in base form, but Lostvayne's airslashes alone can one-shot/dismember opponents as durable as himself.

Yeah, I don’t think this should stay open it will end being a stomp like Chaos vs Gremmy and we won’t put it on the profiles anyway

 

[LordGinSama]

What's the range of the air slashes?

 

[ByAsura]

He cut a mountain in two with a twig's airslash, and ****** up fat Albion's arm (see here for their height so you can get an idea of their arm size) from a distance.

So, a few hundred metres at the beginning of the series.

 

[KingNanaya]

Natsu FRA.

 

[Majinere566]

I retract my vote. Gonna switch to neutral

 

[ByAsura]

Anyway, I'm unfollowing.

This should just be closed outright, imo, since half of the NNT CRTs aren't done and it's kind of a stomp.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Gonna point out that Natsu's heat disperses air based attacks since right after BoS. So Lostvayne really only matters in cqc where Natsu is used to weaving sword attacks.

 

[Makai641001]

Anyway, I'm unfollowing.

This should just be closed outright, imo, since half of the NNT CRTs aren't done and it's kind of a stomp.

Agreed

 

[Makai641001]

Gonna point out that Natsu's heat disperses air based attacks since right after BoS. So Lostvayne really only matters in cqc where Natsu is used to weaving sword attacks.

Being used to it doesn’t mean he’s untouchable especially since apparently Demon mark can be used which means Meli is 2x faster.
His rage amp made him blitz red demon Hendrikson despite being previously fatigued to the point of not being able to stand up and being beat up by base Ban even in demon mark.

Basically:
Non fatigued Meli = Ban = Diamond ranks

Fatigued Demon Mark Meli < Base Ban
Fatigued Base Meli < 50% Ban
Red demon Hendrikson can easily blitz Diamond ranks like Dreyfus and Griamore.

Rage amp is so broken that Fatigued Base Meli blitzed red demon Hendrikson multiple times.

Just ask to close this for stomp reasons at this point Speedster promised he will wait for the end of the upgrades before starting more vs.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Being used to it doesn’t mean he’s untouchable especially since apparently Demon mark can be used which means Meli is 2x faster.
His rage amp made him blitz red demon Hendrikson despite being previously fatigued to the point of not being able to stand up and being beat up by base Ban even in demon mark.

Basically:
Non fatigued Meli = Ban = Diamond ranks

Fatigued Demon Mark Meli < Base Ban
Fatigued Base Meli < 50% Ban
Red demon Hendrikson can easily blitz Diamond ranks like Dreyfus and Griamore.

Rage amp is so broken that Fatigued Base Meli blitzed red demon Hendrikson multiple times.

Just ask to close this for stomp reasons at this point Speedster promised he will wait for the end of the upgrades before starting more vs.

I’m not saying to keep it open, just pointing out that some of what people say is wrong.

Also Demon Mark is still restricted according to the OP.

 

[Makai641001]

I’m not saying to keep it open, just pointing out that some of what people say is wrong.

Also Demon Mark is still restricted according to the OP.

Yeah idk why Asura and Deceived used it I thought it wasn’t restricted anymore

Rage amp is enough.

Asura should close this

 

[ByAsura]

I removed it from my comment hours ago.

Gonna point out that Natsu's heat disperses air based attacks since right after BoS.

Does it disperse attacks far, far superior to himself?

So Lostvayne really only matters in cqc where Natsu is used to weaving sword attacks.

Ok, so Meliodas literally just has to land a singular hit, not even a direct one, and it's over.

Unless weaponry is restricted as well (which Speedster hasn't said).

 

[speedster352]

Gonna point out that Natsu's heat disperses air based attacks since right after BoS. So Lostvayne really only matters in cqc where Natsu is used to weaving sword attacks.

Wasn’t Natsu having trouble with a guy that can control wind?

I removed it from my comment hours ago.

Does it disperse attacks far, far superior to himself?

Ok, so Meliodas literally just has to land a singular hit, not even a direct one, and it's over.

Unless weaponry is restricted as well (which Speedster hasn't said).

If this is a stomp please close this

 

[Makai641001]

I removed it from my comment hours ago.

Does it disperse attacks far, far superior to himself?

Ok, so Meliodas literally just has to land a singular hit, not even a direct one, and it's over.

Unless weaponry is restricted as well (which Speedster hasn't said).

Only enchantments and demon marks are

 

[Qawsedf234]

Closed until that previously mentioned CRT is finished