HST Showdown - (Round 7 - Prodigies)

[MinatoSparkle]

What?

Does he have a counter to the regular kind of sealing that just puts someone away in an object?

 

[Excellence616]

Does it not? I recall someone arguing that Haki resists soul hax cuz of willpower or some shit.

It can but not all Soul hax.

 

[ZKillerz]

Does he have a counter to the regular kind of sealing that just puts someone away in an object?

I dont think minato can do that, and if he can its probably out of character for him
Either way reverse tetragram seal requires direct contact with the fighter which I don't think he'll be able to do since logia intang

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I dont think minato can do that, and if he can its probably out of character for him
Either way reverse tetragram seal requires direct contact with the fighter which I don't think he'll be able to do since logia intang

That's one of Minato's biggest strengths, he literally sealed away half of Kurama, a 6-B+ character, with a simple ritual altar he summoned with a tap, and he learned a ton of Uzumaki fuinjutsu from Kushina, who were so feared in wars for their sealing abilities that they were wiped out.

Who mentioned Reverse Tetragram Seal? That's Danzo's jutsu, not Minato's.

 

[ZKillerz]

Who mentioned Reverse Tetragram Seal? That's Danzo's jutsu, not Minato's.

Mb I meant eight tetragram seal

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Mb I meant eight tetragram seal

Is that stated to require physical contact? All we know is that he said the name of the jutsu and it was completed.

 

[ZKillerz]

That's one of Minato's biggest strengths, he literally sealed away half of Kurama, a 6-B+ character, with a simple ritual altar he summoned with a tap, and he learned a ton of Uzumaki fuinjutsu from Kushina, who were so feared in wars for their sealing abilities that they were wiped out.

Who mentioned Reverse Tetragram Seal? That's Danzo's jutsu, not Minato's.

Yeah but sealing a mass of charka (tailed beasts are essentially just clumps of charka) inside a living person is different from what your proposing
(that he can seal living people inside non living objects) and as I said even if he can do this it doesn't seem in character for him to do so, probably because it cant actually be used as a weapon mid combat.

 

[ZKillerz]

Is that stated to require physical contact? All we know is that he said the name of the jutsu and it was completed.

I'm actually not so sure about that, I remember jiraya touching naruto's stomach and naruto gripping his chest tightly to undo the seal. So I assumed it worked that way

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah but sealing a mass of charka (tailed beasts are essentially just clumps of charka) inside a living person is different from what your proposing
(that he can seal living people that aren't tailed beasts inside non living objects) and as I said even if he can do this it doesn't seem in character for him to do so, probably because it cant actually be used as a weapon mid combat.

Well the Four Symbols Seal is stated to either work on a person or object

Or because he hasn't needed to/it wouldn't have been effective in any of the situations we've seen. Against Obito, he clearly did just fine with the Rasengan. Against Ay, he seemingly did use sealing to some effect, given his knowledge on Minato's skill with it.

And when he was revived, just sealing jutsu obviously wasn't gonna be enough against the Juubi, Juubito, or Juubidara.

 

[ZKillerz]

Well the Four Symbols Seal is stated to either work on a person or object

Or because he hasn't needed to/it wouldn't have been effective in any of the situations we've seen. Against Obito, he clearly did just fine with the Rasengan. Against Ay, he seemingly did use sealing to some effect, given his knowledge on Minato's skill with it.

And when he was revived, just sealing jutsu obviously wasn't gonna be enough against the Juubi, Juubito, or Juubidara.

Where is the first scan you posted from? Is it a canon source?

Minato is undoubtedly skilled with sealing, but sealing someone inside a non living object is just something we've never seen any naruto character do ever (disregarding the six paths sealing jutsu). Even if he can theoretically do that in character, it doesn't seem like a viable wincon since he has to summon an alter and pray that whoever he's fighting against stands still.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Haki does resist soul manipulation, but I'm just confused on how that's relevant here.

Minato can seal souls and shit via Reaper Death and others iirc. Anyway, would Ace have a way to prevent getting sealed by a fire seal?

 

[Kachon123]

would Ace have a way to prevent getting sealed by a fire seal?

I have no idea what this is.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Jiraiya was able to seal Amaterasu inside a fire seal. Ace turns into fire so Minato who is superior to Jiraiya in seals would be able to seal him away despite his logia.

 

[ZKillerz]

Jiraiya was able to seal Amaterasu inside a fire seal. Ace turns into fire so Minato who is superior to Jiraiya in seals would be able to seal him away despite his logia.

uuuh I dont know if you can prove minato has that specific hacks to begin with

 

[ZKillerz]

Assuming minato can use this ability to begin with
It took jiraya an entire page of prep to seal a small amount of fire
The chances of him getting this off mid battle is low, making the ability impractical

Not to mention we just dont know the limitations of this ability, What is the range? How much fire can he seal? Can the seal be blitzed/outsped? These are questions we need the answers to in order to say its a valid wincon.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Where is the first scan you posted from? Is it a canon source?

The first databook

Minato is undoubtedly skilled with sealing, but sealing someone inside a non living object is just something we've never seen any naruto character do ever (disregarding the six paths sealing jutsu). Even if he can theoretically do that in character, it doesn't seem like a viable wincon since he has to summon an alter and pray that whoever he's fighting against stands still.

The Six Paths tools, one of which is routinely used to seal Gyuki, Chibaku Tensei essentially does that, sealing someone within rocks, Sai can bite someone and seal them in his scrolls, Gaara can seal people in his Grand Sand Mausoleum, fodder shinobi can seal Edos inside bandages with sealing tags, the Gedo Mazo can seal Bijuu, etc.

 

[Nierre]

Following

 

[ZKillerz]

The first databook

The Six Paths tools, one of which is routinely used to seal Gyuki, Chibaku Tensei essentially does that, sealing someone within rocks, Sai can bite someone and seal them in his scrolls, Gaara can seal people in his Grand Sand Mausoleum, fodder shinobi can seal Edos inside bandages with sealing tags, the Gedo Mazo can seal Bijuu

Trapping someone with sand/rock or covering them in bandages with sealing tags is different from imbuing their soul into an inanimate object.
As for the other examples you gave, I already acknowledged six paths abilities can do this to some extent, Sai is a special case due to his drawing hacks (literally nobody else has access to this ability in the series).
Gedo statues is a living creature and is only ever shown sealing bijuu/taking chakra from people.

 

[ZKillerz]

Again as I said even if he can theoretically do this its not a viable wincon due to the fact he needs his target to stand within an alter in order to perform the seal which is not happened mid fight. Also I'm not so sure whether or not he can perform the seal without making contact with the target since the scan you posted stated that he needs to physically carve the seal.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Trapping someone with sand/rock or covering them in bandages with sealing tags is different from imbuing their soul into an inanimate object.
As for the other examples you gave, I already acknowledged six paths abilities can do this to some extent, Sai is a special case due to his drawing hacks (literally nobody else has access to this ability in the series).
Gedo statues is a living creature and is only ever shown sealing bijuu/taking chakra from people.

They are somewhat different yes, but it does show a precedence for shinobi being able to seal things in inanimate objects, so someone with the seals of a clan so feared that they were wiped out for having advanced sealing jutsu being able to do that isn't a stretch at all.

Again as I said even if he can theoretically do this its not a viable wincon due to the fact he needs his target to stand within an alter in order to perform the seal which is not happened mid fight. Also I'm not so sure whether or not he can perform the seal without making contact with the target since the scan you posted stated that he needs to physically carve the seal.

Uh I don't think the target specifically needs to stand in an altar, that's the thing the target is being sealed into. And again, the seal needs to be carved into whatever the target's being put inside, not the target themselves.

 

[ZKillerz]

They are somewhat different yes, but it does show a precedence for shinobi being able to seal things in inanimate objects, so someone with the seals of a clan so feared that they were wiped out for having advanced sealing jutsu being able to do that isn't a stretch at all.

Uh I don't think the target specifically needs to stand in an altar, that's the thing the target is being sealed into. And again, the seal needs to be carved into whatever the target's being put inside, not the target themselves.

Fair

If the target is being sealed into an alter why would he summon the alter in order to seal kurama within naruto? Also I'm pretty sure minato is shown touching/making contact with naruto in order to fulfil the seal.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Fair

If the target is being sealed into an alter why would he summon the alter in order to seal kurama within naruto? Also I'm pretty sure minato is shown touching/making contact with naruto in order to fulfil the seal.

I meant that the thing Minato's sealing his target in needs contact and to have a seal carved into it. In Kurama's case, this was Naruto, in this case, it'll be whatever object or scroll Minato seals Ace in.

 

[ZKillerz]

I meant that the thing Minato's sealing his target in needs contact and to have a seal carved into it. In Kurama's case, this was Naruto, in this case, it'll be whatever object or scroll Minato seals Ace in.

Ok so he has to summon an alter and go through the ritual with the inanimate object that he wants to seal the person in.
Makes more sense although I don't think he'll be capable of doing this mid battle. Also does the jutsu have a specified range?

 

[Kachon123]

Yeah I really don't see Minato pulling that off on Ace of all people. Especially when Toshiro is also in the equation.

 

[Robo432343]

bro these vinland saga goons...

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Ok so he has to summon an alter and go through the ritual with the inanimate object that he wants to seal the person in.
Makes more sense although I don't think he'll be capable of doing this mid battle. Also does the jutsu have a specified range?

Possibly, that was the process for the Eight Signed Seal, but it might not be as complex for a less powerful seal, as we've seen much faster seals when not involving a character as powerful as Kurama. Not quite the same thing, but we've also seen that Minato can enhance a seal with a simple touch.

He might have difficulties pulling it off mid battle, but he could have a clone do it or teleport between kunai to keep distance while preparing it. As for range, we really don't know, but considering he can teleport basically anywhere if he marks the battlefield, getting in close range shouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[ZKillerz]

Possibly, that was the process for the Eight Signed Seal, but it might not be as complex for a less powerful seal, as we've seen much faster seals when not involving a character as powerful as Kurama. Not quite the same thing, but we've also seen that Minato can enhance a seal with a simple touch.

He might have difficulties pulling it off mid battle, but he could have a clone do it or teleport between kunai to keep distance while preparing it. As for range, we really don't know, but considering he can teleport basically anywhere if he marks the battlefield, getting in close range shouldn't be much of an issue.

Idk I think augmenting the seal is different from casting it to being with. As for teleporting I dont think thats the problem here, the problem is him casting the jutsu within range which I don't think he can do due to ace's dc and intent reading with observation haki.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Idk I think augmenting the seal is different from casting it to being with. As for teleporting I dont think thats the problem here, the problem is him casting the jutsu within range which I don't think he can do due to ace's dc and intent reading with observation haki.

Fair enough but I still imagine the setup is shorter for simpler sealing jutsu.

If he does all the setup beforehand, then teleports close to Ace just for an instant to cast the jutsu would that work? Also how does Observation Haki work?

 

[ZKillerz]

Fair enough but I still imagine the setup is shorter for simpler sealing jutsu.

If he does all the setup beforehand, then teleports close to Ace just for an instant to cast the jutsu would that work? Also how does Observation Haki work?

Potentially.
Observation haki can sense one's intent so he would be able to know what minato is about to do or at least that he's trying to cast a jutsu

 

[Kachon123]

then teleports close to Ace just for an instant to cast the jutsu would that work? Also how does Observation Haki work?

No, Ace's observation haki would allow him to know where Minato would teleport before he even does so, which would prompt ace to just step back and use his fire aoe to scorch him.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Uh.. What's the arguments for each side?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

No, Ace's observation haki would allow him to know where Minato would teleport before he even does so, which would prompt ace to just step back and use his fire aoe to scorch him.

How good is it and how far in advance is it? If Minato rapid fire teleports between the kunai a bunch of times, would that disorient him and mess up his precog?

Eh idt he'd get hit cause if he sees Ace about to use fire he won't teleport next to him, and if he uses it after Minato teleports in, it only takes a thought to escape and his reactions are much faster than his physical speed.

 

[Kachon123]

How good is it and how far in advance is it?

This should probably help.

If Minato rapid fire teleports between the kunai a bunch of times, would that disorient him and mess up his precog?

It wouldn't.

Eh idt he'd get hit cause if he sees Ace about to use fire he won't teleport next to him

Ace would only use his fire if Minato gets close to him. Also, because Minato is unable to actually touch Ace, attacking close would just burn him.

and if he uses it after Minato teleports in, it only takes a thought to escape and his reactions are much faster than his physical speed.

Ace would just place his fire all around Minato's kunai's so that he won't be able to escape.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This should probably help.

The person is able to dodge all of them

It wouldn't.

Mk

Ace would only use his fire if Minato gets close to him. Also, because Minato is unable to actually touch Ace, attacking close would just burn him.

What if Minato uses a Bijuudama to just try vaporizing Ace?

Ace would just place his fire all around Minato's kunai's so that he won't be able to escape.

Idt burning the kunai actually erases the marking, just makes it so Minato can't grab them. Shunshin is also an option to evade.

 

[Mamaroza]

How cold is Toshiro's ice?

-273.15 Absolute Zero

 

[Mamaroza]

Obviously, none of them can stand up to Toshiro's Passive.

 

[Mamaroza]

And toshiro has conceptual manipulation type 3

 

[DaReaperMan]

-273.15 Absolute Zero

This is first key Toshiro.

 

[zylieo]

And toshiro has conceptual manipulation type 3

Toshiro - Post Training Base - Adult Form Restricted

Bleach fans cannot read.

 

[Robo432343]

the goonery