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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 57: 5 minutes namek meme is back and All shirts are off
- Thread starter TISSG7Redgrave
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Ryukama said:
Not gonna lie, at that part I was like: "That thing you could do ever since base, extremely casually at that...? ...Yeaaah 'k, that's totally going to work. Go for it. Yaaay"
For a second I thought they were trying to make him waste that aura of destruction by making rubble fall on him, so I (non ironically) thought "Yeah, throwing the rocks will keep making him waste energy of destruction on pointless targets until it wears off or something." LOL
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One thing I really don't like, episodes 110 and 111 made it seem like remotely approaching Jiren is absolutely hopeless unless you have Ultra Instinct. Now you have SSBKK Goku, Vegeta and even 17 appearing to do alright against him, or at least not being utterly demolished. I know it's weird, but to me it makes this intimidating aura surrounding Jiren's immense power seem greatly lessened.
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Anyone notice the morality of this episode.
Toppo fights for his whole universe
Vegeta fights for his family (and race)
Toppo is willing to "cast aside things" for the greater good
Vegeta is not wiling to cast aside anything
Toppo accepts it when it's over
Vegeta doesn't
In the end, It is Toppo who loses and It is Jiren who shames him (for unknown reasons). Toppo clearly shows a logical side of the brain, protecting the majority of people, including the means to sacrifice some things to protect greater things. Vegeta shows an emotional side. Despite it being "illogical" to win (As Toppo said, it was pointless trying to defeat him,) Vegeta still uses his determination to win. values the minority close to him instead of the majority (being the whole universe).
Is Toei trying to send a message here, that illogical determination > logical sacrifice?
Toppo fights for his whole universe
Vegeta fights for his family (and race)
Toppo is willing to "cast aside things" for the greater good
Vegeta is not wiling to cast aside anything
Toppo accepts it when it's over
Vegeta doesn't
In the end, It is Toppo who loses and It is Jiren who shames him (for unknown reasons). Toppo clearly shows a logical side of the brain, protecting the majority of people, including the means to sacrifice some things to protect greater things. Vegeta shows an emotional side. Despite it being "illogical" to win (As Toppo said, it was pointless trying to defeat him,) Vegeta still uses his determination to win. values the minority close to him instead of the majority (being the whole universe).
Is Toei trying to send a message here, that illogical determination > logical sacrifice?
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Jiren is pissed like that guy who ends up doing 99% of the teamwork at school because the other group members rely too much on him ovo
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But he's actually more like the guy who's the smartest student in class, but decides to sit and meditate while his partners [attempt to] do the majority of the work.FateAlbane said:
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was wondering about that tooHuesito88 said:
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In such cases I'm pretty sure the character who punched through it gets resistance to said hax rather than we outright labeling that the hax isn't hax.
That would be assuming just about anyone would be able to punch through existence erasure when it's actually Vegeta who has a feat of doing something he shouldn't be able to based on sheer strength/0 resistances.
That would be assuming just about anyone would be able to punch through existence erasure when it's actually Vegeta who has a feat of doing something he shouldn't be able to based on sheer strength/0 resistances.
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It's a good day, vegeta gets some love.
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He also had his energy around his fist AND said type of existence erasure was tangible and punchable. So I'd say he gets resistance, but I hope people keep in mind HOW he has such a resistance.
Unless you think Vegeta could punch away Monika or Bernkastel's (if he was on her tier level)
Unless you think Vegeta could punch away Monika or Bernkastel's (if he was on her tier level)
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Yep. Pretty much unless especified otherwise.Geova2507 said:
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lel at someone even making Vegeta vs B E R N K A S T E L of all people.
That would be the day.
I mean.
She's extremely high at 1-A scales.
But yeah, of course every resistance has its levels.
That would be the day.
I mean.
She's extremely high at 1-A scales.
But yeah, of course every resistance has its levels.
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@Megamangohan I'm pretty sure Toppo doesn't care about the greater good rather his own survival at the moment. Also what he cast away was justice itself. He essentially gave up his morality for the sake of survival. He also shows contempt and a desire for other universes, which host innocent people, to be destroyed. I think Toei's intent is more to show that Toppo abandonned his identity (which was a righteous idenitity that cared for others) whereas Vegeta stayed true to who he is and continued to fight for those close to him.
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I think when he said "survival," he ment the survival of his own universe and not just himself.
my proof is way before the tournament he was sitting next to Kahseral and another looking worried.
my proof is way before the tournament he was sitting next to Kahseral and another looking worried.
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If he says that he doesn't care about justice anymore, that he's beyond the notions of what's right or wrong and he wants other universes filled with innocent people to get destroyed, I feel like that he cares far more about himself than any greater good or the well being of his universe.
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- Thread starter
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what I do to the smart ppl of my group OVOFateAlbane said:
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Make Frieza low 2-C, he got his ass beat by GoD Toppo and wasn't impressed.
HOHOHOHOHOHO YOOOOOOOOOOO!
HOHOHOHOHOHO YOOOOOOOOOOO!
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when I said "greater good," I did not mean "greater" as in saving one universe and destroying seven. I actually meant his desire was "greater" than Vegeta's. Vegeta wants to protect his family and the Sayian race, which is not bad don't get me wrong. But Toppo is after his own universe.
I personally believe Toppo's desires are rooted in the lesser evil, while Vegeta's desires are based on an even lesser evil than Toppos already and in it of itslef lesser evil.
Vegeta was definitly portayed as a good guy in the eyes of the viewer this episode. But despite his desires being more selfless than usual Vegeta, I think they are rooted in emotion, while Toppo's are rooted in logic.
As for why Toppo appears to not care about the other universes, this I can't answer.
I personally believe Toppo's desires are rooted in the lesser evil, while Vegeta's desires are based on an even lesser evil than Toppos already and in it of itslef lesser evil.
Vegeta was definitly portayed as a good guy in the eyes of the viewer this episode. But despite his desires being more selfless than usual Vegeta, I think they are rooted in emotion, while Toppo's are rooted in logic.
As for why Toppo appears to not care about the other universes, this I can't answer.
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Ryukama said:
I'm going to put a stupid question out there, does Frieza even know that he is a universe buster?
Considering his ridiculously fast growth i can believe that he doesn't, he went from being planet level to universe in a few months, he may not be aware of that.
Edit: I think something is wrong with the website today, had to publish my comment twice, first time didn't appear.
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In terms of how this episode looked, it can be praised. But this episode can burn in F***ing hell for all I care, in terms of writting. Toppos character was threaded like sh*t and jiren is a GENERIC VILLIAN TYPE CHARACTER NOW? DEFUQ?!?!? Who wrote this episode? I honestly hope they get explosive diarrhea tonight.
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@Megaman Both of them want their universes spared. Toppo, at least in most likelihood, only wants his universe spared for himself. Vegeta wants his universe spared for his family, to keep his promise, and for the saiyan race. Toppo originally wanted his universe saved for selfless reasons, but he abandonned those selfless reasons. Vegeta never abdandonned his selfless reasons. That's why Vegeta is being portrayed as the good one.
@Gr8Gr3yM Frieza at his absolute weakest is a dwarf star buster, not a planet buster. And he should have some idea what he's capable of, as nearly every DB character does. Also the writers obviously didn't write that line in thinking "Frieza's actually a universe buster but he probably wouldn't know that since he became a universe buster so suddenly therefore he's going to downplay himself and claim his universe busting attack is only planet busting"
It's just inconsistent writing and a low end outlier for the series.
@Gr8Gr3yM Frieza at his absolute weakest is a dwarf star buster, not a planet buster. And he should have some idea what he's capable of, as nearly every DB character does. Also the writers obviously didn't write that line in thinking "Frieza's actually a universe buster but he probably wouldn't know that since he became a universe buster so suddenly therefore he's going to downplay himself and claim his universe busting attack is only planet busting"
It's just inconsistent writing and a low end outlier for the series.
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interesting perspectiveRyukama said:
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> Vegeta smashes hakai ball with his ki punch
> Vegeta smashes bigger hakai ball from the inside with his ki release
And people still say having sufficient enough ki doesn't provide any resistance to some hax.
> Vegeta smashes bigger hakai ball from the inside with his ki release
And people still say having sufficient enough ki doesn't provide any resistance to some hax.
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What really irks me is seeing Vegeta powered back up to Beyond Blue in the next episode preview. What was all that about him using up his energy and barely being able to stand? I would have actually liked if him being completely drained to be a real comprimise, but so much for that.
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Jiren has been in more episodes than most anime main characters and had the personality of a wooden plank until this episode where he shows a generic, cocky bad guy attitude. I think it's fair to judge him for now. If his character actually becomes decent in the final few episodes DBS has then great. However I'm not withholding from criticisms until then.
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That has been happening recently...
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