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To be canon or not to be that is the question.A Dragon ball Super revision
- Thread starter Killerdrone123
- Start date
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Did the scene with freeza and all other vilains seeing Goku fight Kid Buu still happened?
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it did, although it can be considered a retcon. only the scene, not Hell itself because in DBS, there's layers of Hell that do look similar to what we've seen throughout the Z Anime (and the frozen Hell/Cocytus from GT even)
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there's no reason to believe Hell itself doesn't exist. the one we see Frieza in is merely "earth's Hell", and the very reason he was put there was because normal Hell would've been too good for him. another thing to keep in mind, as I said, is that DBS still shows multiple layers of Hell with spiky hills and bloody rivers, which do bear a resemblance to the Hell we saw in the Z anime.
DivineAura44
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I thought the plan was that you impatient mfs wait for DDM to respond? We dropped that or you guys got itchy fingers?
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Huh, i arrived just now to this thread, was that brought up beforehand?
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Huh, pretty sure that Freeza not being in a cocoon and all other Vilains not also being there is a contradiction as well, pretty sure that ia defined everytime Hell is shown......altho i dunno the differences in the scenes of the Kai version vs the Toei version
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Iirc it was "his" hell, as in, his personal one that he is in since he refused to repent for his sins
Oh.....didn't knew that, ok then, sorry
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Where are the multiple layers of Hell shown? I just rewatched the episode where Goku recruits Frieza and none of that is displayed to us. Is it earlier like in the RoF arc by any chance?
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that's the retcon, but only the scene itself, not Hell as a whole since both from the RoF movie and DBS, we see a structure that looks very much like it still exists.
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yeah its in RoF and in the movie as well. you'll see the bloody river and spiky mountainous structure, and a frozen Hell like what we saw in GT
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Can you link the scene in the DBS Anime?
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too lazy to post it but its the starting sequence of episode 19
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Last edited:
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This seems pretty direct and to the point
I mean I already thought we accepted Kai as canon to Super, so I already agreed, but yeah, I agree with DBZ Kai being canon to Super Anime
I mean I already thought we accepted Kai as canon to Super, so I already agreed, but yeah, I agree with DBZ Kai being canon to Super Anime
Killerdrone123
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Well this would be the third and final vote since it has been more than 48 hours the thread is accepted so this can be closed a note would be added to the verse page that Kai is canon to dbs anime as accepted in this thread
The changes and scaling would be handled in separate thread
Thank you to all the members and staff who participated in the thread
The changes and scaling would be handled in separate thread
Thank you to all the members and staff who participated in the thread
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Actually, my arguments were a lot deeper than that. It wasn't as simple as that, for the Bardock retcon. I know full well that the OG TV special was implied to be the canonical backstory regardless of Dragon Ball timeline at the time; which was later retconned for the primary canon specifically as of DBS Broly. But that's not where my concerns end.
What happened in the backstory of the DBZ Anime is literally all over the place. As in, it's literally in our faces throughout the Anime what the Saiyan race was like and nearly every character who talks about the Saiyan origin. Such as the Saiyan-Tuffle War; the Toei Anime had that be quite blunt about how the Saiyan race was. Where they were just pure barbaric races who lived for nothing but fighting but incapable of building space ships or establishing civilization. Which in turn paved the way for the Machine Mutants from Dragon Ball GT. And if I remember correctly, Dragon Ball Z Kai also repeated the same basic description for the Saiyans and both the first episode's prologue and in King Kai's story. Bardock's reaction is still the same as it was in the TV special; where he perceived his visions of Goku's ferociousness as "Nightmares" until his final one depicting Goku confronting Frieza. And King Kai's origin story he told Goku of the Saiyans still implies it's the same thing as what happened in the Saiyan Tuffle War; such as them being Space Pirates working alongside another race for currency and technology that Saiyans themselves were incapable of. I know Raditz' story basically describes Saiyans that way. And in the original manga, there was no Tuffle Race, and full details about saiyans besides them being called "Warrior Race" or the destruction of planet Vegeta were never mentioned. And Raditz telling Goku that "His orders to wipe out all humans" was nowadays something assumed by Raditz, Vegeta, and Frieza rather than what his actual orders were. But of course, the TV special had it where he was sent there without Bardock's consent with those orders specifically from Vegeta and/or Frieza.
The DBS Movie did more than just retcon the TV Special from the primary canon, but also outright contradicts everything ever said about the purpose of Sayians in both Toei Anime, which was also more or less paralleled in Kai. But the original manga didn't really have any of those details that needed retconning in the first place. Bardock was mentioned in the manga, but there was never showings on what he was like or character dynamic. And Saiyans were warriors, but never implied "All of them were brawns over brains barbarians;" Toei Anime for sure did, and Kai also did iirc.
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Well this backstory isn't actually in kai by the way, we only have raditz and vegeta's statement, which even then still holds true even in modern DB. Where saiyans were sent away as children after their battle power was test, to conquer worlds and wipe out the civilians. But the difference now is that they enslaved by frieza. Toriyama clearly changed the story also, first it was that saiyans and the tuffles always lived on planet vegeta, but this is no longer the case right now since we know that the saiyans had a conflict on sadala, and then moved onto another planet, which was planet plant I think, and took over that one. Cold enslaved the frieza force before age 731, maybe before vegeta and goku we're even born that is. We don't know if the saiyans buy and sell planets because of frieza's rule, or if they did that even before cold was there. Fact of the matter is that both the manga and the anime, things get changed because of the existence of dbs broly and minus, it doesn't change kai being canon to the dbs anime. Since the back story wasn't included in kai, even if it was, it would've been something changed by toryiama anyway. Simply, the saiyans could have did the same thing as frieza even before enslavement, but frieza wanted his empire to be the biggest obviously, so he took over the saiyans and made them do it for him. Its here or there, but the result is the same. Your concerns just seem to be your problems with dbs broly and what that means for the saiyans rather than the actual canonicity being wrong. When vegeta mentions they took over another planet when they left planet sadala, its speculated he meant planet plant potentially, and then renamed to planet vegeta.
