Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 57: 5 minutes namek meme is back and All shirts are off

[Golden_Void]

>Jiren at 0.0000000000000000000000000001 power destroys everyone

>Next episode Jiren at full power shows everyone still alive


Love how DB drastically weakens the antagonist by 99% near the end of every arc. :^)

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Love how DB drastically weakens the antagonist by 99% near the end of every arc. :^)

Every arc? This is probably the only arc ever where they actually did that.

 

[Ryukama]

This arc was turning into The Goku Show again with Jiren being able to absolutely demolish anyone except Ultra Instinct with a fart. Now they want to start making the others relevant again.

 

[Ovrhide]

>Jiren at 0.0000000000000000000000000001 power destroys everyone

>Next episode Jiren at full power shows everyone still alive

I'm pretty sure jiren is only showing his true power, and not going all out. Plus we see goku and vegeta knocked out on the floor in the preview, meaning jiren will beat them.

Honestly, everything seems the same with jiren in terms of powerscaling, it's just that goku and vegeta keep getting stronger, far too fast in my opinion.


Love how DB drastically weakens the antagonist by 99% near the end of every arc. :^)

 

[Ovrhide]

Damn, I wrote how jiren has been consistent in power scaling, yet it doesn't show up when I quoted. Has been happening quite a lot lately, is this normal?

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

This arc was turning into The Goku Show again with Jiren being able to absolutely demolish anyone except Ultra Instinct with a fart. Now they want to start making the others relevant again.

It's funny how Super manages to make it The Goku Show without him ever beating the main antagonist. lol

 

[JackJoyce]

Topp is not pathetic
Vegeta is just too badass~

Toppo's Hakaishin transformation was useless. He could've at least killed Android 17 or Frieza getting himself disqualified in the process

 

[AKM sama]

Jiren is still holding back. He is saving himself for GP.

Wait, that didn't come out right.

 

[Saint_rider_890]

This arc was turning into The Goku Show again with Jiren being able to absolutely demolish anyone except Ultra Instinct with a fart. Now they want to start making the others relevant again.

Goku almost never beat main protagonist . How cam the hell this is Goku show ? Can you at least have more sympaty for him

Goku win record is really suck compare to any shonen protagonist

 

[AKM sama]

I liked Z where Goku was not around for the most part and then made an intimidating entry at the key moments. Same with original DB in the tournaments.

Good times.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Goku almost never beat main protagonist . How cam the hell this is Goku show ? Can you at least have more sympaty for him

Goku win record is really suck compare to any shonen protagonist

It's because Goku takes the spotlight a lot. Even though he often doens't beat the main antagonist, he's still always in the spotlight. And Vegeta getting shoved aside is usually there to excentuate that.

Goku is the one who got to do the SSG ritual to fight Beerus. Not Vegeta. Not Gohan. Not anyone else. Goku is the one who mostly fought Golden Frieza. Vegeta got to kick his ass briefly, but then Goku was the one who ultimately finished him. Vegeta got fodderized by Hit. Goku gets the opportunity to observe Hit's fighting style. Because of that, he got to fight him at a competitive level. Did he beat Hit? No. But he still got three or so episodes where he fougth Hit competitively. He had the spotlight. Not anyone else.

The Zamasu arc was sort of a nice change. Goku, Vegeta and Trunks more-or-less had equal spotlight from what I remember, though there were still moments when Vegeta got his ass kicked in seconds only for Goku to come in and fight in his place.

ToP almost achieves this but it's still somewhat The Goku Show. He's the one who got Ultra Instinct. He's the one who got to fight Jiren alone for two episodes straight. He's the one who has the most eliminations (I think), though Vegeta was ahead for a while.

 

[ZERO7772]

Goku almost never beat main protagonist

That not the point tho it's about Goku always stealing the spotlights from everyone to the point, whatever he win or not doesn't matter

In BoG he is the one who fights and makes beerus change his opinion about destroying the earth, he also get new form

in RoF he's the one who beat up Frieza and while Frieza do his dirty trick Goku later comes and destroy him

in U6 he's the one who fights Hit in the final battle after Vegeta took the L just to build up Hit as a threat

in Black arc, he's the one who started the whole thing with Zamasu although the arc was more about Trunks

ToP try to give everyone their shine which is nice but Goku still steam most of the spotlight

Not that I am complaining though since Goku is my fav character and it doesn't bother me as much as it does with others fans

 

[Ryukama]

Exactly what Zero said. Also since when does a character losing a lot of fights mean the show isn't about them? Goku is the main character and Dragon Ball is first and foremost about the story of Goku. (Which obviously aren't bad things)

And at many points of the series he gets all the spotlight and is pretty much the only relevant one in the cast of Z Fighters. That's where "The Goku Show" joke comes from.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Exactly what Zero said.

I said it first, dammit! =P

 

[Ryukama]

Sorry :/

 

[Warren_Valion]

Goku got his ass handed to him by Vegeta.

He also had Gohan, Krillin, Yajirobe, and the Earth's energy to destroy Vegeta and he still got every bone in his body crushed.

And Hit fight was a tie because they both gave up.

 

[Ryukama]

Goku majorly contributed to an assisted defeat of Vegeta, yet got ****** up in the process. I guess one might not count that as a win for him.

Goku seemed to have been considerably overpowering Hit and likely would've won had they not given up. But yeah technically that one was a tie.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Technically he lost against Hit. He gave up, and that counts as conceding defeat. The second time they fought was more of a tie.

 

[Ryukama]

Both of them decided to surrender, after Goku was overpowering Hit. It's a loss in terms of the tournament but I think in more practicality he was the superior fighter.

 

[ZERO7772]

Well thing about Goku's fight is while he doesn't win all the time, it's rare to see him completely and fully losing as well

Goku defeated Frieza until Frieza pulled dirty trick

Goku had Hit on the robes actually but because Beerus wasted so much time his time in KK ran out and he just threw the match after that

Beerus and Jiren the only people to defeat officially Goku to the point where he has nothing more to put on the able

Unlike Vegeta who get total and complete defeat from every villain hence why the fans call him the jobber of the series

 

[Warren_Valion]

Both of them decided to surrender, after Goku was overpowering Hit. It's a loss in terms of the tournament but I think in more practicality he was the superior fighter.

Didn't Hit adapt to Goku's Kaio-Ken while still not utilizing his best techniques?

I'm pretty sure Hit would have won that fight.

 

[Megamangohan]

Now that Gohan is out, Vegeta is going to take over his selfless legacy, Vegeta will win the tournament, who is with me

 

[Ryukama]

@Warren Yeah considering Hit didn't use his killing techniques he might have won in a real fight.

 

[AKM sama]

Goku has always been written like this.

• He didn't technically win against Pilaf gang in the very first encounter. But AT didn't let him lose also.

• He gave a close fight to Roshi in the 21st TB, but lost in the end.

• He lost to the first lethal villain of DB (Tao Pai Pai) before coming back and winning.

• He did win against the RR Army.

• He stalemated Tien in the 22nd TB, but AT made him lose due to technicalities.

• He lost to King Piccolo first, before coming back and winning.

*He got his first major straight win, without losing beforehand, in the 23rd TB against Piccolo Jr in the end of DB.

• He sacrificed himself against Raditz. Neither a win, nor a loss.

• He beat Vegeta in a straight up fight. Vegeta turned Oozaru and Goku lost. Neither a win, nor a loss.

*He got his second major straight win against Frieza. Because of plot transformation.

• Neither a win, nor a loss against the androids.

• Lost to Cell after putting up a fight.

• Stalemated Vegeta in ssj2.

• Assisted win against Kid Buu.

• Lost to Beerus.

• Won against Golden Frieza, but lost because of cheating.

• Won against Botamo because of technicalities.

• Lost against Frost because of cheating.

• Lost against Hit after almost stalemating him.

• Lost against Black, many times.

• Stalemated Hit.

• Won against Bergamo in a straight up fight. It wasn't a major win though.

• No result against Toppo.

*Won against Kefla in a straight up fight. Call it a major win if you want. But for me it's not.


In total he got 1 major straight victory in DB (Piccolo Jr), 1 in DBZ (Frieza) and none in DBS (count Kefla if you want).

1 straight loss in DB (Roshi), 1 in DBZ (Cell) and 2(technically 3 if you count Hit) in DBS (Beerus and Zamasu).

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

damn lol just noticed this kek

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Is Paralysis Inducement not already included in Freeza's power list? If not, it needs to be.

 

[AKM sama]

Is Paralysis Inducement not already included in Freeza's power list? If not, it needs to be.

It is included now.

 

[AKM sama]

I like how the journey of Goku is consistently progressive according to our tiering system too.

9-A (Kid Goku)

High 8-C (Oozaru and 21st TB)

8-B (RR Army)

8-A (22nd TB)

7-B (King Piccolo)

Low 6-B (23rd TB)

5-B (Saiyan and Ginyu Saga)

Low 4-C (Frieza saga)

4-C (w/ Spirit Bomb and ssj1)

High 4-C (as mastered ssj1)

4-B (as ssj2 and ssj3)

4-A (GT Goku)

3-C (as ssj4)

3-B (w/ Spirit Bomb and Dragon Fist)

3-A (after God stuff)

Low 2-C (Ultra Instinct)

2-C (Shin Budokai)

2-B (XV and DBH)

Unknow (End of GT)

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

He is 2-B in Xenoverse too tho.

 

[AKM sama]

Fixed it. The thing is that you can find a "Goku" in almost every tier. Is there any other character who has been in so many tiers in one continuity?

 

[Jobbo]

Huh, there's no 5-A Goku? Namek Goku ought to make the cut.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@AKM sama

For 2-C you can put Shin Budokai Goku.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Is Jiren flying or levitating?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

levitating likely...unless he ****** up power null somehow

 

[AppleLord]

Didn't Toriyama sell the rights to Dragon Ball? Who has them now? And what is canon according to the new owner? I'm lost.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Knowing Jiren then it's likely that yes

 

[Ssr4vegito]

If he is flying then Jiren>GP confirmed OvO

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Knowing Jiren he likely ****** up power null

 

[Ovrhide]

Didn't Toriyama sell the rights to Dragon Ball? Who has them now? And what is canon according to the new owner? I'm lost.

Shueisha is the the one with complete control, and they can do as they please with dragon ball, but Akira Toriyama has been given the rights to do with the series as he pleases, probably respect for being the original author.

 

[AKM sama]

Maybe he is falling with style.