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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 57: 5 minutes namek meme is back and All shirts are off

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Toppo is explicitly stated by the narrator to be far superior to 17. Goku and Vegeta are holding their own against a far more powered up Jiren than the one who fought UI Goku.
 
And they have yet to even hurt him. Jiren has literally no-sold a Kamehameha/Final Flash combo, and then glared away a Final Flash while his arms were held behind his back. Goku and Vegeta are struggling to keep up against a surpressed Jiren. UI Goku made him somewhat serious by the end, shown by the red aura Jiren had when he caught Goku's punch.
 
That just means Jiren is using even more power than he previously did. We even see at the end of Episode 123 that Jiren was getting somewhat pushed back by their team attacks. Episode 124 and beyond Jiren most likely slowly powered up even further off screen as the fight goes on.
 
Goku and Vegeta struggling to keep up against a powered up Jiren>>>Goku hurting a supressed Jiren once.

Making Jiren power up more than he did against UI Goku is more than enough for Low 2-C. If they where weaker than Pre-Jiren UI Goku then he wounldt have needed to power up.
 
Jiren only powered up ONCE against SSB Goku (when he used the ki blast punches), scared Goku out of SSB, and then he powered down against Kaioken x20 Goku and Vegeta, shown by his current lack of red aura. There has been no hint Jiren has powered up since 123 yet he has taken on two Kaioken x20 tier characters despite getting "serious" against current SSB Goku. I thought it was obvious neither Goku or Vegeta are at initial UI Goku level currently so Im surprised people actually think that there. I might just agree to disagree on the rating.
 
This is the current correct scaling for Goku.

Post-Kefla SSBKKx20 >= Post-Jiren UIO > Post-Kefla SSB > Pre-Jiren UIO > Spirit Bomb > Post-Jiren SSBKKx20 > Post-Kefla SSG > Post-Jiren SSB > Pre-Jiren SSBKKx20 > Post-Jiren SSG > Pre-Jiren SSB > Pre-Jiren SSG

And even if you ignore the SSB fighting Episode 123 Jiren thing. There's still Grand Priest's statement about Vegeta "Broke through his shell" that makes him at minimum equal to Pre-Jiren UIO Goku. So it's impossible for them to be weaker than Pre-Jiren UIO Goku.
 
I completely disagree with that rating.

Post-Jiren UI Goku>Pre-Jiren UI Goku>Current Kaioken x20 SSB Goku>Current SSB Goku>Current SSG Goku.

That's a very simple chain but I don't think Current SSG Goku is weaker than Pre-Tournament SSB Goku or anything like that. SSG is like a 50x multipler imo and Goku hasn't gotten 50x stronger during the tournament.

I also don't think current Vegeta is above any version of UI Goku. Disagreed on that as well.
 
SuperDragoon978 said:
I completely disagree with that rating.

Post-Jiren UI Goku>Pre-Jiren UI Goku>Current Kaioken x20 SSB Goku>Current SSB Goku>Current SSG Goku.

That's a very simple chain but I don't think Current SSG Goku is weaker than Pre-Tournament SSB Goku or anything like that. SSG is like a 50x multipler imo and Goku hasn't gotten 50x stronger during the tournament.

I also don't think current Vegeta is above any version of UI Goku. Disagreed on that as well.
Click to expand...
You learned to disagree, congratulations. now you need to learn to handle other people's opinion.


Current ssb Kaioken x20 Goku > pre jiren UI Goku...
 
FAD52121-7A48-4A01-BF0D-BDB2FFEE4B12
Whis said the same thing when Goku first achieved UIO. And Current Vegeta's SSB Form is already stronger than Pre-Jiren SSB Goku. So for his new form to not even be Pre-Jiren UIO Lvl is just ridiculous.
 
And where the heck did you get that 50x multiplier for ssg? There no official multipliers, so don't bring up any
 
What is with the attitude you guys are giving me? I've never insulted anyone or attacked you guys for disagreeing. I just don't understand where your opinion has gotten from.

Vegeta broke through his shell. So that means he's above UI Goku why exactly?

Super Saiyan is a 50x multipler. Super Saiyan Blue is the God version of Super Saiyan. Therefore I would assume SSG is the same multipler. Either way its a huge increase imo.

Ill say it against: Pre-Jiren UI Goku>Current Kaioken x20 SSB Goku. If you guys refuse to accept my opinion than thats not my fault.
 
SuperDragoon978 said:
What is with the attitude you guys are giving me? I've never insulted anyone or attacked you guys for disagreeing. I just don't understand where your opinion has gotten from.

Vegeta broke through his shell. So that means he's above UI Goku why exactly?

Super Saiyan is a 50x multipler. Super Saiyan Blue is the God version of Super Saiyan. Therefore I would assume SSG is the same multipler. Either way its a huge increase imo.

Ill say it against: Pre-Jiren UI Goku>Current Kaioken x20 SSB Goku. If you guys refuse to accept my opinion than thats not my fault.
Click to expand...
Don't complain. No one is giving you an attitude for disagreeing. But you simply have to know that vegetas current low 2-C tier is due to having to match a more powered up jiren than he was at 110. So in this site, vegeta is 2-C due to scaling to jiren. Ssb Kaioken x20 Goku also scales to vegeta, who is equal to him.

And barely anyone here is going to accept your opinion, cause it doesn't match the ratings. So that's on you
 
LMAO Vegeta was just punishing those hakai shit Toppo kept spamming around, get the **** out of here Toppo it's the prince time

Also Shirtless Vegeta holy shit ~

Freaking Jiren can smile wow
 
ZERO7772 said:
Can't Goku just grab Jiren, do instant transformation outside of the arena then go back to the arena? or hell just grab the dude and go down with him, that will leave Vegeta\17\Frieza to team up on Toppo instead of this stupid 1on 1 fights
Click to expand...


Nope, it would require a ki signature to lock onto, all of which are out of bounds and Goku would put himself out, and he wouldnt want that.
 
So...I notice Frieza is just not even a thing in the latter half of the episoe or in the up next for next episode.
 
By the way is the first UIO Goku really stronger than the GoDs? Cause I'm starting to have doubts after this episode.
 
Peter1129 said:
By the way is the first UIO Goku really stronger than the GoDs? Cause I'm starting to have doubts after this episode.
Click to expand...
I never thought the first UI was > any god.
 
Frieza is gonna be the villain of this arc

I'm calling it

Because remember: The winning Universe doesn't get erased, the winning PERSON gets the Super Dragon Balls

After Jiren is off, it's open season for the Dragon Balls
 
Peter1129 said:
By the way is the first UIO Goku really stronger than the GoDs? Cause I'm starting to have doubts after this episode.
Click to expand...
Probably not. Although I think he is still think he is above Infinite Zamasu.

Thanks to Toppo the GoD's are far superior than we initially though since he fought on par against BSSJB Vegeta who is => SSJBKKx20 Goku who is>>>>>>>SSJB Goku(Current) who is=>UIO Goku(First)
 
right now after seeing the episode i feel happy as hell (spoiler so you will know what i mean :) )
 
Ovrhide said:
SuperDragoon978 said:
What is with the attitude you guys are giving me? I've never insulted anyone or attacked you guys for disagreeing. I just don't understand where your opinion has gotten from.

Vegeta broke through his shell. So that means he's above UI Goku why exactly?

Super Saiyan is a 50x multipler. Super Saiyan Blue is the God version of Super Saiyan. Therefore I would assume SSG is the same multipler. Either way its a huge increase imo.

Ill say it against: Pre-Jiren UI Goku>Current Kaioken x20 SSB Goku. If you guys refuse to accept my opinion than thats not my fault.
Click to expand...
Don't complain. No one is giving you an attitude for disagreeing. But you simply have to know that vegetas current low 2-C tier is due to having to match a more powered up jiren than he was at 110. So in this site, vegeta is 2-C due to scaling to jiren. Ssb Kaioken x20 Goku also scales to vegeta, who is equal to him.

And barely anyone here is going to accept your opinion, cause it doesn't match the ratings. So that's on you
Click to expand...


I refuse to accept your bullshit opinion now. I already told you to stop attacking me and you continue to devalue me and my opinion (which is not wrong btw). Current Vegeta is NOT above the likes of SSB Vegetto or Fused Zamasu going by the BS ratings. So THAT'S ON YOU.
 
People originally thought of that because a causal Jiren was stated to be stronger than Infinite Zamasu and than all of a sudden Whis chimed in and said he was on par with a GoD if not stronger. But now it turns out Whis wasn't referring to casual Jiren being GoD Lvl or above.
 
I love how excited everyone got thinking that having rubble fall on Toppo was a good move.

I'm sorry but the show's writing can be pretty trash some times. "I feel like I could blow away a universe in one shot" one episode to "This attack can destroy a planet!" a few later.
 
MeleeniumRXJ said:
Wow, Jiren is actually a dick. I didn't expect him to disrespect his own comrades like that.
Click to expand...
Didn't Jiren say that cause toppo through his pride away for Power and didn't even Eliminate anyone
 
So it seems that the description for Hakai needs to be redone, because now apparently you can just punch through it if you're really strong. Doesn't deny conventional durability.
 
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