• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

DB to DBZ Re-Scalling thread

If we're going this route I'll make the same suggestion as last time: scale SSJ3 Goku above the Father-Son Kamehameha, as SSJ3 Goku's energy from simply transforming was such that it was felt by King Kai in the Otherworld, whereas this was not the case for the Father-Son Kamehameha despite the fact that King Kai was actively watching both

We're not having scaling so scuffed that Vegito dies to the Solar Kamehameha, that is objectively a horrible decision that would make current DB scaling look like more of a joke that it already is
 
I strongly disagree with the idea that "Kamehamehas always turn oneshot gaps around".
Good, because not only is that not being proposed here, it wasn't the proposal accepted before

There is no singular gap that a Kamehameha can be, it varies, blatantly stated so, check the profiles, they are only extremely one shotting gaps above the user at their maximum output, it naturally varying makes any example you gave of it having different gaps a simple case of its variable power nature, which was the point of the last thread

You are disagreeing based on something that wasn't, isn't and was never proposed... i am trully confused on how you somehow got that the blatant "it varies in power" rating in the profiles as "it doesm't vary, it is always that strong", seriously DDM, have you even read last thread? Or the profiles? Not meaning to be rude here, i am just puzzled on how you could have misinterpreted the proposals of last thread's so much
 
We're not having scaling so scuffed that Vegito dies to the Solar Kamehameha, that is objectively a horrible decision that would make current DB scaling look like more of a joke that it already is
You guys......didn't read the new scalling blog linked? Gotenks alone is already superior to that via multipliers

Edit: oh, you meant to say Goku instead of Vegitto? Yeah... i agreed to that already, why is everyone talking about things i agree as if i disagree with them? Odd
 
Last edited:
You guys......didn't read the new scalling blog linked? Gotenks alone is already superior to that via multipliers
Dude, what? SSJ3 Goku is 198 Foe in your blog, I'm proposing scaling him above the Father-Son Kamehameha, which is 2.106 KiloFoe

Edit: Oh wait, I'm referring to the wrong thing. My bad, I just don't want DB scaling to turn into a joke
 
Father Son Kamehameha >>> Super Vegito
Jokes are the biggest lore afterall.

Hmm moving on.

No issues with Father Son kamehameha almost one-shotting SSJ2 Buu Saga characters.

They were training for 7 years so the gap is explainable. It would even make more sense given how strong the characters (saiyans) get.

Buu Saga Gohan was also constantly ridiculed by Vegeta iirc so there is no inconsistency from what I feel.
 
Ssj2 Goku was outright sated to be above cell arc Gohan by someone who witnessed the father -son Kamehameha

Buu arc ssj2 Goku and Vegeta and up should naturally upscale
They already do with their Kamehameha / charged attacks.
 
They already do with their Kamehameha / charged attacks.
They would upscale with their regular power, not just with charged attacks.

Especially when Vegeta statement was for Goku just after transforming into his SSj2 Form without doing anything else.
 
They would upscale with their regular power, not just with charged attacks.

Especially when Vegeta statement was for Goku just after transforming into his SSj2 Form without doing anything else.
Okay, well so far as I'm aware Vegeta doesn't compare Goku specifically to Gohan's Kamehameha so I disagree with that.
 
The would also upscale with their regular attacks, as Vegeta straight up says he isn't stronger, he didn't say "you're stronger than Gohan except when he uses a Kamehameha"
He doesn't need to say that for it to be the case.
 
As of this thread of mine, the Kamehameha got a very big upgrade, in which it can get strong enough to turn one shot gaps around and be far, FAR superior to the user, as such, several scalling moments get changed because of it, so alongside previous accepted threads that were never applied, i will now propose some re-scallings to the verse
This was literally the OP's first paragraph; which was hardly something I ever agreed to in the first place. Or at least, it's something I see more with Special Beam Cannon or Tri Beam than I do the Kamehameha.

I don't disagree with everything brought up in the OP; a key split for Piccolo seems reasonable is an example. But I strongly disagree with downgrading the SSJ2's and beyond for anyone in Buu saga given Goku and Vegeta both got much stronger to the point where SPC is a joke to them now. Final Explosion from Majin Vegeta was far stronger than Solar Kamehameha or Father-Son Kamehameha, but Majin Buu tanked it. SSJ3 Goku, is like even his sheer presence was above everything mentioned in this paragraph. And it was implied he could have destroyed Buu just from his most basic attacks alone, but wanted Goten and Trunks to take over as the new heroes and/or it had something to do with "accelerating the sands in his hourglass" if he transforms.
 
But I strongly disagree with downgrading the SSJ2's and beyond for anyone in Buu saga given Goku and Vegeta both got much stronger to the point where SPC is a joke to them now. Final Explosion from Majin Vegeta was far stronger than Solar Kamehameha or Father-Son Kamehameha, but Majin Buu tanked it.
Majin Buu definitely didn't tank it. He was blown to smithereens by it. (Though Buu's durability is always an iffy thing)

And when is Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha just a joke to them?
 
Don't have much to say about the OP, but I def agree that SS3 Goku and above at the very least scale to Cells big kamehameha.


Final Explosion from Majin Vegeta was far stronger than Solar Kamehameha or Father-Son Kamehameha, but Majin Buu tanked it.
Buu didn't tank it, he got blasted apart into dozens of tiny chunks and regenerated afterwards
 
I do believe we currently treat SPC as about as powerful as SSJ2 Gohan, who only gets surpassed when Goku and Vegeta themsleves go SSJ2, so he's definitely not a joke lol

Everything else is already the case if you read the thread.
 
This was literally the OP's first paragraph; which was hardly something I ever agreed to in the first place. Or at least, it's something I see more with Special Beam Cannon or Tri Beam than I do the Kamehameha.
Earlier you said "Kamehamehas always turn oneshot gaps around". Is what i had proposed and applied... which is false, it CAN get strong enough to turn one shots around, hence why i proposed and applied a VARIES rating

I don't disagree with everything brought up in the OP; a key split for Piccolo seems reasonable is an example. But I strongly disagree with downgrading the SSJ2's and beyond for anyone in Buu saga given Goku and Vegeta both got much stronger to the point where SPC is a joke to them now.
And SPC doesn't scale to his strongest attack physically, as i can consistently showed that when one uses the Kamehameha at its strongest capacity, it far outacales the user

Final Explosion from Majin Vegeta was far stronger than Solar Kamehameha or Father-Son Kamehameha, but Majin Buu tanked it.
No he didn't? He had his body complotely destroyed... what are you talking about?

SSJ3 Goku, is like even his sheer presence was above everything mentioned in this paragraph.
Read the OP, he upscales the Solar Kamehameha

And it was implied he could have destroyed Buu just from his most basic attacks alone, but wanted Goten and Trunks to take over as the new heroes and/or it had something to do with "accelerating the sands in his hourglass" if he transforms.
This is true... But since you only think Buu's scaling comes from Final Explosion, an attack that destroyed his body to little pieces, the reasoning is not the best
 
Goku's kamehameha Vs Vegeta (as I hate to admit it) was weakened severely by Vegeta's own Galick Gun during the Beam Clash.

I am neutral about Max Charged Ki Blast attacks being 20 times stronger then the user for instance but it can definitely oneshot relative characters (For instance Kid buu and Cell who only survived dued to regen). Infact in both those instances Goku didn't need to charge for too long
either for it to oneshot said character
 
Cell def doesn't scale 1:1 to his shit, I mean, it's literally how he died.
That isn't to say the gap is insanely huge, in DBZ they've shown time and time again you can evaporate or obliterfuck dudes with a few times gap (Vegeta's gauntlet on Namek having like 5 examples, Vegeta vs Nappa, Krillin vs Saibamen, etc, all were casual attacks from a less than 10x difference, some of which even 2x which seems to tie into the whole 2x ki to invalidate attacks/tank statement) so it isn't like it needs to be 1000s of times stronger or anything, but there def be a gap.

SSJ3 Goku should scale above it, but iirc, even working on that framework and working back to figure out the difference of SSJ2 Gohan/Cell to SSJ3 Goku, that would still be over a 10x gap between them and their kamehameha.
 
Last edited:
Majin Buu definitely didn't tank it. He was blown to smithereens by it. (Though Buu's durability is always an iffy thing)
Case by case, but even regeneration potency is often linked to Ki.
And when is Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha just a joke to them?
Goku was confident that Gohan should have been "Much stronger than he was when he fought Cell" only to be corrected. But that implies a rematch with Cell would have been considered easy for their standards; then sense the Ki of Solar Kamehameha and thus know how to measure it.
And SPC doesn't scale to his strongest attack physically, as i can consistently showed that when one uses the Kamehameha at its strongest capacity, it far outacales the user
Even a held back Teen Gohan was able to stop the blast though; which is worth considering. And the usual cases of Kamehameha's well exceeding physical strength is usually demonstrated by characters getting pushed back far while trying to keep the wave running; which didn't happen in the Teen Gohan vs SPC fight.
Earlier you said "Kamehamehas always turn oneshot gaps around". Is what i had proposed and applied... which is false, it CAN get strong enough to turn one shots around, hence why i proposed and applied a VARIES rating
That still implied by reading your first paragraph; and especially the case of what you appear proposing for Cell and Gohan
No he didn't? He had his body complotely destroyed
Was worded poorly on my end, but his regeneration's ki still outweighed it. It couldn't bypass his healing factor unlike Spirit Bomb; and doubt Solar Kamehameha would either.
Read the OP, he upscales the Solar Kamehameha
Ok, thanks for clarification.
This is true... But since you only think Buu's scaling comes from Final Explosion, an attack that destroyed his body to little pieces, the reasoning is not the best
Not the "Only" example. But there are plenty of cases where Gotenks and Super Buu exchanged Ki blasts and repelled with hands. Kid Buu also initially repeled the Spirit Bomb with hands is another example, and Goku was able to push it back into Kid Buu after his energy was restored by Porunga and he went SSJ.
 
Case by case, but even regeneration potency is often linked to Ki.
... we are talking about 1 case, Buu vs Final explosion. Wdym it is "case by case" when we are talking about 1 case?

Also... Buu's regen being Ki based, which i don't remember ever being said, matters for the fact that he doesn't scale in durability at all to it as it obliterates his body, because?

Goku was confident that Gohan should have been "Much stronger than he was when he fought Cell" only to be corrected. But that implies a rematch with Cell would have been considered easy for their standards; then sense the Ki of Solar Kamehameha and thus know how to measure it.
No, it means Goku thinks Gohan would have been stronger than Cell, and since the Kamehameha from Cell was matched by Gohan, his Kamehameha when stronger would be obviously be stronger than Cell's as well

If Gohan didn't had the exact same amp move Cell had for his Kamehameha, i would sorta get it, but currenty? I see nothing that would make such a vague statement mean "he scales above absolutely everything we ever saw before" instead of just talking about Cell's general power

Even a held back Teen Gohan was able to stop the blast though; which is worth considering.
No? A far weaker casual attack did, to a stronger Teen Gohan, devasting damage and broke his arm and had him waste half his Ki, even wheb Cell was "fooling around", Gohan only matched the Solar Kamehameha, with his, verbatim stated, strongest Kamehameha. Aka it is the type of Kamehameha that far outscales the user's own power, as showed by the many, MANY examples i showed before

And the usual cases of Kamehameha's well exceeding physical strength is usually demonstrated by characters getting pushed back far while trying to keep the wave running; which didn't happen in the Teen Gohan vs SPC fight.
... what are you talking about? Not only did that happened in the clash in question, but are you really ignoring the verbatim statements of the Kamehameha's being the "strongest" ones either of them could make? That is verbatim stated and i put it in the OP

Also you are ignoring Cell breaking the arm of a stronger Gohan with a casual held back ki blast, because?

That still implied by reading your first paragraph; and especially the case of what you appear proposing for Cell and Gohan
No it isn't, if you read the last thread, which given you voted there, i assume you did. You would know that the Kamehameha gained a "varies" rating, it CAN get that strong, it doesn't ALWAYS

Really, have you even read the profiles? Why do you think it has a "varies" instead of just a "far higher"? Even in my first paragraph here i say "it CAN" never "IT IS ALWAYS" when describing what was accepted in the last thread

Was worded poorly on my end, but his regeneration's ki still outweighed it. It couldn't bypass his healing factor unlike Spirit Bomb; and doubt Solar Kamehameha would either.
... his regen matters for a talk about his Durabilitt because? Yeah, the regen is broken... so what? His durability still doesn't scale

Ok, thanks for clarification.

Not the "Only" example. But there are plenty of cases where Gotenks and Super Buu exchanged Ki blasts and repelled with hands.
1 Gotenks and Super Buu are already stronger than the FSK via multipliers

2 Ki blasts are NOT the kamehameha, so idk why you are talking as if they were as steong as it, cause they are not

Kid Buu also initially repeled the Spirit Bomb with hands is another example, and Goku was able to push it back into Kid Buu after his energy was restored by Porunga and he went SSJ.
Goku specifically didn't had enough power to unleash the Spirit Bomb's power against Buu, hence why he needed his energy restored, this is not a feat for Kid Buu, it was purely because the Spirit Bomb was not unleashing all its power due to Goku being unable to do so at the time

Also... i don't see how this matters for the topic of Fat Buu's dura not scalling to Final explosion?
 
He doesn't need to say that for it to be the case.
Why would the statement for Goku be only referring to Goku with charged attacks? That doesn’t make sense. Vegeta compares Gohan’s peak power to Goku when he merely transforms.

Also, the guides consistently refer to Gohan putting all his effort into his kamehameha at his true power against Cell. There’s no reason to assume it wouldn’t be referring to that.
 
Why would the statement for Goku be only referring to Goku with charged attacks? That doesn’t make sense. Vegeta compares Gohan’s peak power to Goku when he merely transforms.
No, Vegeta compares Gohan's power in general, no specifics about his absolutely strongest attack or anything, to Goku's power power, also in general, not specifying

the statement is simply too vague to say it is refering to anything other than Gohan's overall power, it is only said "You are stronger than Gohan back then" no specification whatsoever, no evidence of him meaning "you are stronger than Gohan, including the attack that is several one shots worth above him"

Also, the guides consistently refer to Gohan putting all his effort into his kamehameha at his true power against Cell.
Which is the basis of the thread as to why it doesn't scale to his physicals, yes, really don't get your point here

There’s no reason to assume it wouldn’t be referring to that.
there is no reason to assume that IT WOULD be refering to that to begin with, you are basing it on a non specific generic "you are stronger than X character", which doesn't mean at all "you are stronger than ALL THINGS X could ever do no matter what", the statement is simply too non specific for us to assume anything other than it being talking about Gohan's overall power
 
No, Vegeta compares Gohan's power in general, no specifics about his absolutely strongest attack or anything, to Goku's power power, also in general, not specifying
Gohan's power in general... so since it's in general, why should he arbitrarily exclude a part of it?
 
Gohan's power in general... so since it's in general, why should he arbitrarily exclude a part of it?
equally, why would we arbitrarily include an massive amp that is completely outside of his normal stats to begin with? specially when, again, the statement is vague and non specific

also... i wouldn't consider a "i can close and turn several one shot worth of difference in power" move as a character's general power level, it is too outside of Gohan's normal statistics for it to be the standard assumption here
 
equally, why would we arbitrarily include an massive amp that is completely outside of his normal stats to begin with? specially when, again, the statement is vague and non specific

also... i wouldn't consider a "i can close and turn several one shot worth of difference in power" move as a character's general power level, it is too outside of Gohan's normal statistics for it to be the standard assumption here
Because he's talking generally about Gohan's power, especially when, you know... He saw the Father-Son Kamehameha in question???

Honestly, looking at this objectively, my viewpoint has substantially more merit
 
Because he's talking generally about Gohan's power, especially when, you know... He saw the Father-Son Kamehameha in question???

Honestly, looking at this objectively, my viewpoint has substantially more merit
I don't agree. Why would be be comparing Goku directly to a Kamehameha? It seems pretty logical to me that if Vegeta is saying that Goku surpasses Gohan, then we can conclude Goku > Gohan, and Goku's Kamehameha > Gohan's Kamehameha.... but I wouldn't necessarily conclude Goku > Gohan's Kamehameha just from that alone.
 
Because he's talking generally about Gohan's power, especially when, you know... He saw the Father-Son Kamehameha in question???
... honestly don't see what else i can say, the Father-Son Kamehameha is not part of Gohan's normal stats, it is not something that would ever be standardly assumed to be refering for Gohan's power, just like how Cell was superior to Vegeta, but he still dealt half his body worth of damage with the Final Flash, would you consider the Final Flash part of Vegeta's general power to compare if someone generically said "you are stronger than Vegeta?"

I wouldn't, this is the same type of deal for me here

Honestly, looking at this objectively, my viewpoint has substantially more merit
if you see it that way, ok, each with their own opinion... i don't see it as being objectively better given the vagueness, also i don't feel confortable with you trying to say "i am purely being objective here, my word is true as it is objective and not based on interpretation, mine is the truth", not accusing you of course, that is just the vibe i got from what you just said
 
It’s because Gohan during the father-son kamehameha it’s referred to Gohan’s “strongest power,” and his “full power” why the hell would Vegeta not be referring to that? I don’t think it being a move changes that it’s Gohan’s peak power.
 
It’s because Gohan during the father-son kamehameha it’s referred to Gohan’s “strongest power,” and his “full power” why the hell would Vegeta not be referring to that? I don’t think it being a move changes that it’s Gohan’s peak power.
Vegeta's statement doesn't make any mention of Gohan's peak power / output. If anything, the most logical conclusion is that since he's looking at Goku who is just standing there doing nothing after powering up then he'd be comparing him to Gohan after Gohan had just powered up.
 
Vegeta's statement doesn't make any mention of Gohan's peak power / output. If anything, the most logical conclusion is that since he's looking at Goku who is just standing there doing nothing after powering up then he'd be comparing him to Gohan after Gohan had just powered up.
If Gohan’s full power is above Goku than Goku only partially surpassed Gohan, but didn’t surpass his full power. That’s not really the most logical conclusion, when you consider that his moment against Cell during the clash is the thing that’s hyped up the most.
 
If Gohan’s full power is above Goku than Goku only partially surpassed Gohan, but didn’t surpass his full power. That’s not really the most logical conclusion, when you consider that his moment against Cell during the clash is the thing that’s hyped up the most.
No, because Goku's full power would still be above Gohan's full power too.
 
Back
Top