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definitely agree able
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To be canon or not to be that is the question.A Dragon ball Super revision
- Thread starter Killerdrone123
- Start date
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For certain scenes I'd just say it's there obviously going to use anime scenes because they aren't going to show manga panels (Example I'm referring to is the Vegeta flashback to his fight with Goku), I wouldn't call that supporting evidence. However, things like Gregory existing are valid points given he doesn't show up at all in the manga as far as I know.
Overall, I think it's pretty clear Super makes references to Kai/Anime as it has scenes and characters that/who don't exist which is a sign that they are canon to each. I guess you could try to and argue that that's all these are are just reference to go "hey remember this" without the care of canon as they probably assume most watching follow the anime but that just my head canon as I lack evidence for that. And I think that making reference to an event people know is one thing but adding things into existence that only are shown in a different media is another especially when it's done multiple times.
For now, I'll agree. Changes this would entail can be discussed after if this gets accepted. I'd like to see some counterpoints first before anything else because it would be a waste start potential changes they another revision to revert it spawns immediately. I myself don't focus on Dragon Ball much anymore so I have no counter-arguments to the OP other than what I mentioned above but that doesn't change my view as a whole since my thoughts are kinda head canon on the writers intention. Regardless, I am in agreement with the change but I'd like to see potential valid arguments from those who have them.
Overall, I think it's pretty clear Super makes references to Kai/Anime as it has scenes and characters that/who don't exist which is a sign that they are canon to each. I guess you could try to and argue that that's all these are are just reference to go "hey remember this" without the care of canon as they probably assume most watching follow the anime but that just my head canon as I lack evidence for that. And I think that making reference to an event people know is one thing but adding things into existence that only are shown in a different media is another especially when it's done multiple times.
For now, I'll agree. Changes this would entail can be discussed after if this gets accepted. I'd like to see some counterpoints first before anything else because it would be a waste start potential changes they another revision to revert it spawns immediately. I myself don't focus on Dragon Ball much anymore so I have no counter-arguments to the OP other than what I mentioned above but that doesn't change my view as a whole since my thoughts are kinda head canon on the writers intention. Regardless, I am in agreement with the change but I'd like to see potential valid arguments from those who have them.
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I personally still disagree and it's a topic been brought up numerous times; while it's been written more elaborately combined with also being more organized than previous attempts, I still have quite a bit of contentions. But most of these are mainly neutral stuff; not to mention, there are still plenty of things the DBS Anime contradicts Kai's continuity just as hard as it contradicts the Toei Anime. Prime example being Bardock's backstory being completely rewritten by the DBS Broly movie.
But going to have to wait for a day I am off work before elaborating my contentions.
But going to have to wait for a day I am off work before elaborating my contentions.
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Can you please provide scans for these when able, I'm not familiar with DB enough to know these hard contradictions?
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So why is it used in DBGT? By this logic not even Toei should be used for GT.
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,006
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- Thread starter
- #86
The thing about bardock is that the movie retconned both manga and anime since we can see bardock in his og armor when frieza gets a flashback of him
Not to mention even toriyama considered the bardock special canon to manga and he says that he has given space to it
So yes broly just retconned both manga and anime
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Strym, I don't know if that’s a valid comparison. Toei-Z is Non-Canon material that can do whatever it wants. Kai is (by the logic of this thread) a show bound by the overall narrative intent of its writer and is forced to fall in line within known canon facts.
So where Toei can introduce galaxy obliterating feats or universal feats and its consequences are self contained to its own continuity, Kai doing so directly impacts future events, where we know the intent to be universal was Battle of Gods. Realistically, I’d just have the Kai 2-C feat be an outlier due to the wider narrative context created by Battle of Gods being introduced.
So where Toei can introduce galaxy obliterating feats or universal feats and its consequences are self contained to its own continuity, Kai doing so directly impacts future events, where we know the intent to be universal was Battle of Gods. Realistically, I’d just have the Kai 2-C feat be an outlier due to the wider narrative context created by Battle of Gods being introduced.
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Vietthai96
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Bardock's backstory was rewritten by Toriyama himself, DB Minus manga, Broly Movie's Bardock backstory section was adapted from DB Minus and we all know that Akira Toriyama is heavily involved in Broly movie
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The Bardock special was an event that happened in the anime and manga. The guidebook and Toriyama’s statement + the original manga show this.
So this applied to the manga too. So this argument doesn’t work considering the movie was originally for both. HOWEVER, DB Minus + Broly did retcon it, but that applies to the manga and anime.
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WOW, WHAT AMAZING LOGIC! Why not just interpreting the BoG as Goku being so strong that he can barely contain his Universal level of power lmfao.
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Crazy how there’s a lot of proof for Kai being canon, but one of the argument against is not being comfortable about scaling. (Even when this is a canonicity thread)
Also stop discussing scaling in a canonicity thread.
For some reason even Whis had a star.
Also stop discussing scaling in a canonicity thread.
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When it comes to the Kai 2-C feat, the only characters who should scale to it in Z are Buuhan and Vegito unless you want to bring up the Kid Buu statements in which case Buutenks/Buuhan is also stated to be stronger.
When it comes to DBS, Goku and Beerus showing off Universal levels of power shouldn't mean the Kai feat is an Outlier since Goku himself states that the power boost he recieved from SSG is greater than that of the Potara which would in turn put him above Buuhan.
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Not in anime, I am afraid.
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,006
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- Thread starter
- #95
Can we talk about scaling later this thread main focus is considering canonicity
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You have to remember that Super Buu remembers being Kid Buu and yet considers these Absorption powerups as a Boost instead of Downgrade.Not in anime, I am afraid.
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He wasn't exactly conscious or what he'd consider himself as Kid Buu, so I don't think that really works.
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I think that's the Chozenshuu that was released as an updated Daizenshuu before DBS but right after BoG and RoF, so that would make sense.
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Each incarnation of Buu considers themselves to be there own beings while still possessing the previous ones memories. Buutenks still remembered Goku from his time as Fat Buu despite the fact he's an fundamentally different being. It's a similar premise here.He wasn't exactly conscious or what he'd consider himself as Kid Buu, so I don't think that really works.
Vietthai96
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Seriously, we can handle scaling after this, because if this do not get accepted, then scaling discussion is irrelevant, save it for the future
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He wasn't exactly conscious or what he'd consider himself as Kid Buu, so I don't think that really works.
Can we all please stop derailing the thread
The OP has outlined a specific intention for the goal of thread as of now and nth has even been accepted yet and y’all are talking and deliberating about what comes after when square one has not even been decided yet.
The OP has asked time and time again that we focus on the specific topic that the thread is trying to address. Please stop deviating from the main point as it only takes up more time and energy and ultimately does nothing for the thread.
Anything scaling related can be addressed after the thread is completed or/and in a different thread. Please once again stop derailing and address the main point of the thread
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Dude you have no idea how much we would gotta overhaul the profiles (ie, renaming them, merging some of them, splitting them etc) might as well split the verse page into two (manga and anime)
Also what should be canon to the DBS Anime/Kai? The OGDB Manga or the OGDB anime?
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There is a lot of evidence, I agree
