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OG Dragon Ball 5-C Scaling to Roshi's Moon-Busting Feat Should be Removed

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also, we have to keep the same energy with speed,

Max Power Kamehameha reaches the Moon at Sub-Rel Speeds, if we are separating the capabilities of Max Power Roshi and his Kamehameha from everyone else in the verse till Z, shouldn't that Kamehameha be able to blitz the otherwise Supersonic+ King Piccolo, Goku, and Tien?

Or are we saying King Piccolo is relevant in speed to Max Power Kamehameha but not power?

which would be odd when the argument for why King Piccolo should be relative in speed and power is virtually the same, Roshi believing he is completely inferior to Piccolo, Goku, and Tien.
 
Vizer04 said:
He means the technique itself, not his own Kamehameha.

The Galick Gun and Final Flash are stronger techniques than the Kamehameha but there are certain Kamehameha's that are stronger.

Yamcha's Kamehameha ≠ UI Goku Kamehameha
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He is comparing the destructive force of a Kamehameha to the Tribeam. He quite literally is saying this has greater force than what he did to the moon. Your argument makes no fricken sense.

"One can't even begin to compare it to the Kamehameha -except my own kamehameha-"

The reader ought to assume that the destructive force of this Kikoho is greater than any Kamehameha at this point
 
Dalesean027 said:
its not a mistake when the Kami they have is saiyan saga kami where he is literally weaker wdym? And You don't even know what you're talking about because these are the weekly Jump levels and here's a second to double down
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180 Roshi when the Yamcha that surpassed him has a PL of 177 (Literally the entire reason why Tien is 5-C in the first place).
190 Korin, the same guy who outright states that Roshi is stronger than him.
 
AwkguyDB said:
He is comparing the destructive force of a Kamehameha to the Tribeam. He quite literally is saying this has greater force than what he did to the moon. Your argument makes no fricken sense.
Click to expand...

AOE fallacy aside, that wouldn't make a lot of sense. He can't be comparing the destruction of a small hole in the ground to the destruction of the Moon and saying the hole in the ground is more impressive.
 
AwkguyDB said:
He is comparing the destructive force of a Kamehameha to the Tribeam. He quite literally is saying this has greater force than what he did to the moon. Your argument makes no fricken sense.

"One can't even begin to compare it to the Kamehameha -except my own kamehameha-"

The reader ought to assume that the destructive force of this Kikoho is greater than any Kamehameha at this point
Click to expand...
But again........Tien doesn't scale to the Kikoho himself, it is literally his strongest move at the time
 
Damage3245 said:
Kami was impressed... but by both his own words and Roshi's, he's far more powerful than Yamcha. He could've just been impressed by Yamcha's skill without considering Yamcha anywhere on the same level as him.
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He was impressed by his skill, and he told him he could tell he was strong. I’m not outright saying that he should scale to him fully, but he should downscale.
Damage3245 said:
Kami was also caught off-guard by Yamcha's one attack that left an injury on the body Kami was borrowing (so not Kami's real body getting hurt) and the moment he got serious he instantly defeated Yamcha. There's also no evidence that the blows that Yamcha took from him were Moon level.
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Kami borrowing his body doesn’t really change the fact that he still has 5-C durability in that body. And yeah Yamcha did inevitably lose, I’m merely contesting the fact that he’s ten of thousands times weaker than him. Also, Kami does scale to 5-C in that body, he showed 5-C feats against Piccolo Jr.
 
The point is The Kikoho wasn't even considered an option to fight up against King Piccolo. Not even the masters of the Kikoho would of been foolish enough to take on King Piccolo in a head to head fight. Matter of fact Roshi tells Tien straight up they have no hope or chance in battle. That would be factoring in the same 5-C Kikoho

 
And don't bring up no BS about the Kikoho gambling his life, he literally gave his life using the Mafuba and its quite obvious Tien can survive at least one Kikoho.
 
AwkguyDB said:
The point is The Kikoho wasn't even considered an option to fight up against King Piccolo. Not even the masters of the Kikoho would of been foolish enough to take on King Piccolo in a head to head fight. Matter of fact Roshi tells Tien straight up they have no hope or chance in battle. That would be factoring in the same 5-C Kikoho

Click to expand...

Pretty sure you said this already.......as did many people here, isn't it a little......silly to use the same argument over and over?
 
Yeah. Right now the only people in danger of being downgraded are the 22nd Budokai lads (Tien, Goku, Krillin, etc.)
 
I'm not going to say I disagree with this thread entirely, but I used this same Old King Piccolo logic years ago, and even I had to admit it didn't make sense after a while.
 
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Omegabronic said:
Pretty sure you said this already.......as did many people here, isn't it a little......silly to use the same argument over and over?
Click to expand...
The OP's main argument is that only Roshi should be Moon level until DBZ everything here blatantly shows thats bullshit if the OP wanted to downgrade 22 budokai DB characters outside of Tien's Kikoho that would be reasonable but I still disagree.
 
Anyways, how many staff votes is it for immediate closure, not trying to rush just asking because I genuinely don't know.
 
Roshi’s max power Kamehameha is faster than everyone else in the verse at this point if they do not scale to it at all. Which means he should be able to blitz King Piccolo with it and kill him in a single hit.

Why is he saying there is no way for him to kill King Piccolo as if jumping him while he charges the Kamehameha to blitz and one shot him isn’t an option.
 
AwkguyDB said:
So....you disagree with the logic of the thread....
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I disagree with Old King Piccolo not scaling specifically. I don't disagree or agree with the rest of the thread as a whole.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Roshi’s max power Kamehameha is faster than everyone else in the verse at this point if they do not scale to it at all. Which means he should be able to blitz King Piccolo with it and kill him in a single hit.

Why is he saying there is no way for him to kill King Piccolo as if jumping him while he charges the Kamehameha to blitz and one shot him isn’t an option.
Click to expand...
You got two people with 5-C level attacks not using said attacks because the wisest of the two, of whom has actual combat experience against KP, states battling KP would result in their inevitable defeat.

…. Nah he doesn’t scale
 
ByAsura said:
I disagree with Old King Piccolo not scaling specifically. I don't disagree with the thread as a whole.
Click to expand...
The OP states only Roshi scales to 5-C and no one until DBZ Piccolo Jr scales. Unless OP deletes his original argument, you quite literally disagree 😂
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Roshi’s max power Kamehameha is faster than everyone else in the verse at this point if they do not scale to it at all. Which means he should be able to blitz King Piccolo with it and kill him in a single hit.

Why is he saying there is no way for him to kill King Piccolo as if jumping him while he charges the Kamehameha to blitz and one shot him isn’t an option.
Click to expand...
Godernet said:
also, we have to keep the same energy with speed,

Max Power Kamehameha reaches the Moon at Sub-Rel Speeds, if we are separating the capabilities of Max Power Roshi and his Kamehameha from everyone else in the verse till Z, shouldn't that Kamehameha be able to blitz the otherwise Supersonic+ King Piccolo, Goku, and Tien?

Or are we saying King Piccolo is relevant in speed to Max Power Kamehameha but not power?

which would be odd when the argument for why King Piccolo should be relative in speed and power is virtually the same, Roshi believing he is completely inferior to Piccolo, Goku, and Tien.
Click to expand...
normally i'd agree, but tbf it does take a while to charge, and while it's charging Piccolo could easily kill Roshi before he releases it.


Anyway I agree with Tracer and SunDaGamer, everyone who scales above Tri-Beam should be 5-C crazy how much ive flipflopped on this topic ngl
 
Was able to read through this and uh... Hard disagree with the OP. We're not going back to those days (even if we're having 5-C via the MAX Power Kamehameha, that's literally it until DBZ and it's functionally the same as said old days, which I had huge problems with so you better believe I have huge problems now)
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Was able to read through this and uh... Hard disagree with the OP. We're not going back to those days (even if we're having 5-C via the MAX Power Kamehameha, that's literally it until DBZ and it's functionally the same as said old days, which I had huge problems with so you better believe I have huge problems now)
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It’s literally the same arguments from 2019 I kid you not I found like 4 threads saying the same thing as the OP😂
 
Nierre said:
normally i'd agree, but tbf it does take a while to charge, and while it's charging Piccolo could easily kill Roshi before he releases it.
Click to expand...
I’d agree if Piccolo didn’t already try face tanking Goku’s Kamehameha cause he thought nothing but the Mafuba would even be able to hurt him and get hit with the Mafuba by Roshi anyways

And looking back Roshis Max Power Kamehameha didn’t even take much longer to charge than a normal Kamehameha when he used it against Oozaru Goku

He transformed, aimed, and fired in like 4 panels
 
Godernet said:
I’d agree if Piccolo didn’t already try face tanking Goku’s Kamehameha cause he thought nothing but the Mafuba would even be able to hurt him and get hit with the Mafuba by Roshi anyways

And looking back Roshis Max Power Kamehameha didn’t even take much longer to charge than a normal Kamehameha when he used it against Oozaru Goku

He transformed, aimed, and fired in like 4 panels
Click to expand...
For reference it took two pages for Roshi to fire the moon busting Kamehameha

It took him 7 pages to botch the Mafuba and two of the pages he literally was setting up

So charging the kamehameha is a nonissue
 
Disagree.
This is utterly absurd and should straight up be a banned discussion as it not only is tremendously contested by simple facts happening on-screen and statements whose trustworthiness is uncontestable.
Since ******* 2018 the exact same thing is being argued, dismissed and reargued to be dismissed by the exact same arguments from things that are extremely obvious to who's reading.

I repeat that this topic should be outright banned from being discussed again as it only leads to faulty arguments to get to said downgrade, and undesirable although justified heatness in the debate as it's been 6 years of the exact same thing, meaning (in humble opinion) a shame to this community that focus on serious debate for fun and properly maintaining our profiles and wiki following the rules.
 
Honestly I wouldn’t mind a thread rule for at least downgrading anyone past Old King Piccolo with the same arguments that got us crapped on by [Redacted] the Programmer
 
AwkguyDB said:
Honestly I wouldn’t mind a thread rule for at least downgrading anyone past Old King Piccolo with the same arguments that got us crapped on by [Redacted] the Programmer
Click to expand...
I hoped to not hear the name [CENSORED] the Progroomer. Never liked him
 
I agree that this warrants a discussion rule. These are arguments from 2019 or older that I've seen numerous times on this website.
 
So what exactly even changed from the arguments that were debunked here

Even Damage agreed to the upgrades here
 
AwkguyDB said:
So what exactly even changed from the arguments that were debunked here

Even Damage agreed to the upgrades here
Click to expand...
well, now more staff in this thread are.....at least neutral on making 22td Budokai peeps not 5-C in base stats, as for the arguments?......i dunno
 
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