Demon Slayer (Kimetsu no Yaiba) - Breath of Discussion: 5th Form

[Elixirr]

This is the updated version (which basically has Kaigaku above Gyutaro instead of the other way round), basically anyone from Genya and above should scale to the 8-A feat.

My reasoning for Kaigaku > Gyutaro because the narrative won't introduce an opponent that is weaker than one that Zenitsu fought and helped defeat several arcs ago, especially since Zenitsu had pillar training. Still, anyone is free to dispute this

Comparable:
Daki
Nezuko (> Daki and ~ UM4's clones who should be comparable to her)
Tengen (High end relative to Gyutaro)
Gyutaro (>Tengen)
Genya (Iffy on this one, scaling mainly because they were comparable-ish while training)
Kaigaku (Relativity to Zenitsu in the IF fight, should be narratively above Gyutaro and Daki)
Inosuke (Relativity to Zenitsu in the Muzan fight)
Kanao (Relativity to Zenitsu in the Muzan fight)

Above:
Gyokko (> Kaigaku)
Shinobu (Relative to a casual Doma which narratively should be well above Kaigaku)
Mui (>UM5 > Kaigaku ~ Zenitsu, with STW ~ Koku)
Hantengu (>> Kaigaku)
Rengoku (~ UM3 >>> Kaigaku ~ Zenitsu)
Mitsuri (~ UM4 >> Kaigaku ~ Zenitsu, dodged attacks from Muzan)
Giyu (~ UM3 >> Kaigaku ~ Zenitsu)
Akaza (>>> Kaigaku)
Sanemi (~ UM1 >>>> Kaigaku ~ Zenitsu)
Obanai (Did better than marked Sanemi in Muzan fight)
Gyomei (~ UM1 >>>> Kaigaku ~ Zenitsu)
Doma (>>> Kaigaku)
Koku (>>>> Kaigaku)
Tanjiro (Relative to Muzan who blitzed marked Gyomei, Sanemi, Giyu, Obanai and base + invisible Kanao, Inosuke and Zenitsu)
Muzan (> Tanjiro)
Yoriichi (>>>> Muzan)

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Daki
Nezuko (> Daki and ~ UM4's clones who should be comparable to her)
Tengen (High end relative to Gyutaro)
Gyutaro (>Tengen)

Daki scales 100 times below Gyutaro due to the Demon Slayer Mark multiplier from the Entertainment District arc that provides the justification for the 8-C rating. Zohakuten scales to the combined power of the Upper Moon 4 clones, so they can't be comparable to Kaigaku unless we want to argue that every Upper Moon from 4 to 1 is supposed to scale 4 times above Kaigaku which would result into Multi-City Block level+ ratings. The Upper Moon 4 clones scale to a Tanjiro who surpassed his level against Gyutaro, so his Attack Potency scaling has the same issues.

 

[Elixirr]

Daki scales 100 times below Gyutaro due to the Demon Slayer Mark multiplier from the Entertainment District arc that provides the justification for the 8-C rating. Zohakuten scales to the combined power of the Upper Moon 4 clones, so they can't be comparable to Kaigaku unless we want to argue that every Upper Moon from 4 to 1 is supposed to scale 4 times above Kaigaku which would result into Multi-City Block level+ ratings. The Upper Moon 4 clones scale to a Tanjiro who surpassed his level against Gyutaro, so his Attack Potency scaling has the same issues.

One Hantengu clone is likely comparable or weaker than Gyutaro who is below Kaigaku, so anyone above Kaigaku scales to the 8-A rating which is a lot of people

 

[Nehz_XZX]

One Hantengu clone is likely comparable or weaker than Gyutaro who is below Kaigaku, so anyone above Kaigaku scales to the 8-A rating which is a lot of people

I've already updated everyone who scaled to City Block level+ to 8-A unless I've missed something.

 

[Elixirr]

I've already updated everyone who scaled to City Block level+ to 8-A unless I've missed something.

every originally 8-A character should become "At least 8-A" in my opinion, which mostly includes the upper moons and anyone comparable or above them

 

[Nehz_XZX]

every originally 8-A character should become "At least 8-A" in my opinion, which mostly includes the upper moons and anyone comparable or above them

I don't have a strong opinion regarding this though Tanjiro and Muzan already have that.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Tanjiro's Stamina section could probably use some work. It doesn't mention his training on Mount Sagiri or that he would scale to Inosuke's stamina feat. His stamina feats from the Entertainment District arc are also noticeably absent and the profile doesn't seem to separate the stamina feats from the Post-Type Zero Training and Post-Pillar Training keys.

every originally 8-A character should become "At least 8-A" in my opinion, which mostly includes the upper moons and anyone comparable or above them

Does anyone have something to say about these things?

 

[Deceived3596]

Vs Thread since the previous one was cut short given the new ap upgrades.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I've just discovered that Yoriichi's profile doesn't have Limited Illusion Creation unlike Tanjiro's even though Tanjiro has it because of certain Sun Breathing techniques.

 

[speedster352]

I've just discovered that Yoriichi's profile doesn't have Limited Illusion Creation unlike Tanjiro's even though Tanjiro has it because of certain Sun Breathing techniques.

I guess you should add it then and work on the stamina and skill feats of DS characters

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I guess you should add it then and work on the stamina and skill feats of DS characters

I just want to confirm what others think here. While the odds of there being a valid reason for Yoriichi not having it despite having the exact same techniques that grant Tanjiro Limited Illusion Creation are very low it can still be interesting to hear what others have to say.

 

[speedster352]

I just want to confirm what others think here. While the odds of there being a valid reason for Yoriichi not having it despite having the exact same techniques that grant Tanjiro Limited Illusion Creation are very low it can still be interesting to hear what others have to say.

What is the scaling chain? Who is the strongest DS character what is their ap in tons?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

What is the scaling chain? Who is the strongest DS character what is their ap in tons?

I'd consider Yoriichi to be at the top of the scaling chain and I'm describing that scaling chain already in the thread for his match against Gensai. The value he is massively upscaling from is also given in that thread.

 

[Jibz]

Thoughts?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/demon-slayer-profile-fixes.135997/

 

[chosen]

"Even after being reduced to a decapitated head, a low-level demon would have still been capable of regenerating if his head were to be "completely crushed")" when was This stated exactly?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

"Even after being reduced to a decapitated head, a low-level demon would have still been capable of regenerating if his head were to be "completely crushed")" when was This stated exactly?

This is based on the demon from the temple that Tanjiro encountered. Urokodaki told him that stabbing it wouldn't kill it and Tanjiro thought that he would have to completely crush it instead but the sun disintegrated it before he could try due to him hesitating. Later Urokodaki tells him that you can only kill demons with sunlight or Nichirin swords which is further backed up by Tamayo stating that fights between demons are generally futile since they can't kill each other and Yushiro regenerating from having his head smashed by one of Susamaru's balls.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Hello. So maybe this has been discussed previously but what exactly are the justifications for MHS+ speed? More so talking about the lighting. Are there any concrete statements it's as fast as cloud to ground lightning? Would be great if explanations came with scans.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Guys rengoku match
https://vsbattles.com/threads/kyojuro-rengoku-vs-roronoa-zoro.136137/

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Hello. So maybe this has been discussed previously but what exactly are the justifications for MHS+ speed? More so talking about the lighting. Are there any concrete statements it's as fast as cloud to ground lightning? Would be great if explanations came with scans.

There aren't any direct statements for that as far as I'm aware but they do fulfill certain criteria. Provided the lightning has power comparable to or above that of natural lightning it can be considered to move at comparable speed for practical purposes on this Wiki which is the case here. Kaigaku's lightning burns flesh like real lightning would. One of Hantengu's Emotion Clones, Sekido, also makes use of lightning which has shown to have some of the properties of real lightning. Hantengu's profile already mentions how Sekido's lightning can't pass through anything made from Hantengu's cells as a weakness, so that shows that it can flow through certain material like real lightning. The lightning can also paralyze those it hits.

 

[chosen]

has power comparable to or above that of natural lightning

Wait a second it does?
Cuz 8A comes from it being considerated mhs+ to begin with( zenitsu outspeeding it then calc ke)

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Wait a second it does?
Cuz 8A comes from it being considerated mhs+ to begin with( zenitsu outspeeding it then calc ke)

"It is required to show that the electricity carries an energy of at least 1.6 billion Joules or a voltage of at least 100 million Volts in order to qualify." (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lightning_Feats)

The Emotion Clones are still 8-C and don't scale to Zenitsu and Zohakuten previously scaled to High 8-C due to scaling to their combined power. Regardless they are both above the required level of energy.

 

[chosen]

"It is required to show that the electricity carries an energy of at least 1.6 billion Joules or a voltage of at least 100 million Volts in order to qualify." (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lightning_Feats)

The Emotion Clones are still 8-C and don't scale to Zenitsu and Zohakuten previously scaled to High 8-C due to scaling to their combined power. Regardless they are both above the required level of energy.

Oh right forget we scale kaigaku above Hantegnu clones no matter what

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Oh right forget we scale kaigaku above Hantegnu clones no matter what

Kaigaku doesn't have any direct scaling to the clones. He scales to Zenitsu who scales to Inosuke and Kanao who in turn fought against a casual Doma with a City Block level+ feat.

 

[chosen]

Kaigaku doesn't have any direct scaling to the clones. He scales to Zenitsu who also scales to Inosuke and Kanao who in turn fought against a casual Doma with a City Block level+ feat.

Oo just remembered some scaling that was brought in the old thread that
Zenitsu > Post Swordman Village Base Tanjiro as he finished his first three pillar training as tanjiro needed a bit more
And base Tanjiro ~ thw emotion clones

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Oo just remembered some scaling that was brought in the old thread that
Zenitsu > Post Swordman Village Base Tanjiro as he finished his first three pillar training as tanjiro needed a bit more
And base Tanjiro ~ thw emotion clones

Okay, that makes sense.

 

[chosen]

Btw shouldn't enterteiment district tanjiro have building Durability with water breathing (forget what form) as he can block gyutaro hits with them?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Btw shouldn't enterteiment district tanjiro have building Durability with water breathing (forget what form) as he can block gyutaro hits with them?

Isn't Tanjiro generally much weaker than Gyutaro and Tengen in that key? I'm pretty sure that the scene makes a point of him trying to avoid facing them head-on and focusing on redirecting them since he is weaker and would lose a direct clash.

 

[chosen]

Isn't Tanjiro generally much weaker than Gyutaro and Tengen? I'm pretty sure that the scene makes a point of him trying to avoid facing them head-on and focusing on redirecting them since he is weaker and would lose a direct clash.

Well yeah hence why only with that ability and for dura
It is a ability that focuses on defense

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Well yeah hence why only with that ability and for dura
It is a ability that focuses on defense

I don't think that this is something that warrants a rating and it also isn't some supernatural or superhuman power. Avoiding direct clashes and redirecting attacks is a principle you can find in real life too and since that means for Tanjiro that he literally didn't directly withstand the power of Gyutaro's slashes he wouldn't scale.

 

[chosen]

Muichiro page
"Tengen considers him superior"
When was this stated

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Muichiro page
"Tengen considers him superior"
When was this stated

I can only recall Tengen thinking of him in regards to people with talent alongside Gyomei.

 

[chosen]

I can only recall Tengen thinking of him in regards to people with talent alongside Gyomei.

If it refers to that statament it should be removed
He Just said he isn't special cuz Gyomei and Muichiro became hashira in just 4 months (refering to natural talent)

 

[Nehz_XZX]

If it refers to that statament it should be removed
He Just said he isn't special cuz Gyomei and Muichiro became hashira in just 4 months (refering to natural talent)

I don't know if it is specifically that statement, so it would be good to wait and see what other people have to say about this.
Gyomei and Muichiro actually did it in 2 months.

 

[chosen]

I don't know if it is specifically that statement, so it would be good to wait and see what other people have to say about this.
Gyomei and Muichiro actually did it in 2 months.

Aight
Also I was sure it was 4 honestly

 

[speedster352]

When is season 3 coming out again?

 

[chosen]

2023 apparently
Unkown What month

 

[chosen]

Tanjiro Mugen Train Feat

vsbattles.fandom.com

If this calc good
Gyutaro and tengen become 8A

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Tanjiro Mugen Train Feat

vsbattles.fandom.com

If this calc good
Gyutaro and tengen become 8A

Interesting.

 

[chosen]

Btw Zohakuten also becomes 762 tons
Wonder if Yoriichi can upscale with his scaling chain since Base Gyomei > Rengoku > Zohakuten

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Btw Zohakuten also becomes 762 tons
Wonder if Yoriichi can upscale with his scaling chain since Base Gyomei > Rengoku > Zohakuten

Upscaling would be a bit iffy though it is handled on a case-by-case basis, so you could probably make an argument with the proper evidence.