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[Demon Slayer] Massive Upgrade

Tengouk

Tengouk

42
5
I have to write again... Hey, so this is my first and one of many revision threads that will be posted by me. I'll start with the controversial speed section first and then go onto other problems with the current rating in other threads.

To simplify this thread talks about the various MHS+ statements for Zenitsu and uhh mostly the whole verse. As well as speed upgrade ratings for characters.

• MHS+ Zenitsu:
Alright, to start off this statement comes from the very first arc he appears in. He fights the Tongue demon and ends up blitzing him with Thunderclap and Flash. This is what the databooks says about this. The novelization mentions that, when he's asleep, he can perform lightning-fast feats.

The next statement comes in the Rehabilitation-Training. He pulls Inosuke and Tanjiro outside and gets mad. Inosuke approaches him and he ends up getting punched and blitzed. The novelization states he's a thunder breath user and that it's expected for him to be lightning-fast. This statement should upscale Kaigaku as well as he's a user of the same breath, hence he's expected to do the same, but by being a demon he possesses blood demon arts that amplify techniques. This notion is made clear by himself, claiming he surpassed thunder breathing, and the databook.

A little bit afterwards in between Mugen Train arc and Entertainment District arc he's once again stated to be as fast as lightning by blitzing Tanjiro and Inosuke and saving a girl from being stepped on by a horse.

• MHS+ Kanao:
During the Kanao Vs Douma fight Kanao attacks Douma and was also stated lightning speed. Manga version.

• Kanao's Perception:
There's a statement saying that she can perveive the Bodhisattva's movements as slow as a snail. Kanao's physical speed should scale to lightning at that point, yet the Bodhisattva was shown to do a whole turn around in the timeframe of her cutting through Douma's neck. The Bodhisattva arguably covers a greater distance but that should still grant MHS+ movement regardless. The same movement that can be perceived as slow as a snail. It even goes further and states it gradually becomes slower and slower until it completely stops. To support the novelization's insane claims the manga shows us a few panels of the Bodhisattva's movements and even gives us a 'kshing' onomatopoeia, indicating the stop of its movements as the novelization states.

• Wind Speed Sabito:
During the first time Tanjiro meets Sabito he attacks Tanjiro first and in that battle he's stated to have movement as fast as the wind in this page. Kind of arbitrary but I think it's a very fast wind speed as Sabito held back and then proceeds to blitz him badly, which the novelization is referencing during this panel. Tanjiro during this fight arguably scales to a holding back Sabito, who's wind speed, but then Sabito stops holding back and proceeds to beat him up badly.

• Akaza & Giyu Scaling:
During their battle Akaza proceeds to launch Afterglow, which are a 100 shockwave punches send out from his technique. This attack was stated to perception blitz marked Giyu. It states he can't perceive it and in order to do so he has to unleash 11th form. Meaning Marked Giyu should scale a perception blitz below his 11th form Dead Calm. He shouldn't physically scale to Akaza as he couldn't physically keep up with its speed even after amping himself up with 11th form as well as not even receiving the full concentration of the attack, as Akaza shoots these shockwave in all directions, as well as towards Tanjiro. So, he failed to block a small portion of it and got hit numerous times. This notion that Akaza is a perception blitz above Marked Giyu/Bass Giyu is supported in the manga as well and held back against both for majority of the battle. Akaza can perception blitz IC Tanjiro - the same Tanjiro can perceive Base Giyu and Sanemi as well as a Marked Giyu and a holding back Akaza. Hence it's consistent for him to be this fast.

There's more as well. Marked Giyu with 11th form rivals Muzan's base arm whips in speed. Luckily, this also proves the Akaza scaling above consistent by stating Tanjiro can't perceive Muzan's arm whips yet marked Giyu with 11th form Dead Calm apparently rivals that same speed.

• Who receives scaling?:
Obviously, Zenitsu in his very first arc scales to these MHS+ statements. Tanjiro, Inosuke and other non-kizuki members shouldn't scale to these as Zenitsu with his thunder breathing is consistently shown to be a blitz tier faster than the people that are relative in speed to Tanjiro and Inosuke. He also shows relativity to these same people in his base state, without a breathing amp.

Muzan, Yorrichi, all of the Hashira and all of the twelve kizuki (+Daki) should scale from this. Rui wouldn't downscale as he held back against Tanjiro and scales above Spider Dad who perception blitzes Inosuke (who's relative to Tanjiro at that point) + the additional statement from the databook which states Rui is atleast LM1-2 lvl.

Kanao during the Rehabilitation-Training also upscales from this as she completely outpaces all of the trio, including Zenitsu to the point of giving up, same Zenitsu who's stated lightning speed 3 times up to that point.

Tanjiro, Inosuke and Zenitsu then receive help of how they can reach and beat Kanao which is gaining total concentration: constant. Something Kanao also has which makes her closer to the hashira than them. After that power up we see Tanjiro keep up with her. Completely Power-cliffing the thunder breathing Zenitsu Pre-Rehabilitation-Training. Of course, Zenitsu (+Inosuke) then surpasses his old self by gaining strength and beating Kanao logically as well. Scaling his base above Rehabilitation-Training thunder breath Zenitsu. His thunder breath would further upscale from that as he can outpace Tanjiro and Inosuke Post-Mugen Train and Pre-Entertainment District as I already showed in the lightning speed statement where he saved a girl from a horse attack. As well as receive praise from Enmu calling him "too fast" (Another translation says "he was fast too" after glazing Rengoku, implying he's the fastest and closest to Rengoku. The same Enmu fought off Tanjiro and Inosuke at the front of the train by blocking his skull with hands. The scaling for this would be:

Thunder Breathing Zenitsu > Enmu ~ Base Mugen Train Zenitsu/Inosuke/Tanjiro/Nezuko ~ Kanao >>> Pre-Rehabilitation-Training Thunder Breathing Zenitsu > Base Pre-Rehabilitation-Training Zenitsu/Inosuke/Tanjiro/Nezuko.

As for the Kanao MHS+ statement. A holding back Douma should scale to this while a FP Douma gets massively upscaled. Once he gets serious he does this.

Kanao's perception shouldn't really scale to anyone else other than Kanao herself as she amps up her vision acuity by concentrating on her vision and risks going blind. The only exception could be Muzan and Yoriichi but I don't think so.

For wind speed Sabito it looks a little different. Sabito, Makomo, the Hand-demon, the Tanjiro that fought Sabito and all low-tier demons scale to this AT LEAST. As for why, the hand-demon beat Sabito and claimed Makomo was fast, implying a speed superiority to Sabito (another translation outright says she's the fastest). The hand-demon himself is weak and has his potential restricted by being inside the FS which is a prison for demons. Tanjiro when he beat Sabito should massively upscale from him as he horrifically blitzes him in their battle. The anime even shows Sabito barely moving in comparison to Tanjiro moving 2+ meters. Calced this myself by using the highest Beaufort wind speed I got the exact MHS rating (might be a higher wind speed due to reasonings already stated above in Sabito Wind Speed. Insanely consistent as he's inferior to thunder breathing Zenitsu who's in MHS+ range.

Agree: (0:4):
@KnyRaizn @Hxskyy2005 @Dark_Soul20189 (?) @Xaropadob3ta

Disagree: (0:0)

Neutral: (0:1)
@Kin201
 
Last edited:
I had already proposed for an upgrade to MSH+ and given all the scans, apparently they had rejected it and I have no idea why, let's hope this works
 
Very good! I had proposed this speed on this page, as I also did a KE.

I agree with everything, I would like to add some talents that I noticed about the AP, since we are talking about ups.

Zenitsu causes a mountain to shake with his scream.

Perhaps we should consider this mountainous forest as something 2,000m long, I think this would be the average, I think the results would be consistent with the KE.

I should mention that he resounded a sound like thunder through the mountain when using his breath, not only that but it made "tremors" where he stood.

There is also another feat of Muzan that is forgotten, he reached the Ubuyashiki mansion, and it was declared to be his reach, not because of the resonance of some kekijutsu.
 
Kin201 said:
"Lightning-fast" is a metaphorical expression usually used to describe something that is very fast or rapid. It doesn't necessarily mean the thing is literally as fast as real lighting. Btw, is the novel canon to the manga?
Click to expand...
It can be a metaphorical expression in RL but doesn't necessarily mean it does so in fiction where they can easily exceed MHS+ or SOL. It's possible, but not probable with all the other MHS+ supportive statements as backing.

As for it's canonicity It should be. It gives additional information and addressed stuff. Such as the Kanao example I gave. It also gives insight to off-screen examples such as Tengen squeezing his muscles to keep Gyutaro's scythe in place and slice it, which the anime also kind of implies. Apparently the author of the MT novelization worked on it as well, the same one that got approvement by Gotouge to make the 3 light novels. So far it hasn't had any contradictions at all through multiple books and is just made for younger kids with easier understandable furigana. The official account says it's faithful to the original (it's from shueisha). Gotouge didn't say anything towards it, as far as I'm aware, but I'd assume so as shueisha and Gotouge work close. It should be considered tertiary canon, at the very least.
 
Tengouk said:
It can be a metaphorical expression in RL but doesn't necessarily mean it does so in fiction where they can easily exceed MHS+ or SOL.
Click to expand...
Not always the case in fiction sure, but in this case, I don't know, so I'm just pointing it out. Supporting feats are important if there are any.
Tengouk said:
It's possible, but not probable with all the other MHS+ supportive statements as backing.
Click to expand...
All other statements look similar to me. They all mention Zenitsu being "lightning fast" and Kanao jumping at "lightning speed". So you have a point that there are consistent statements talking about lightning. I'll leave it to the mods to decide whether the statements qualify for MHS+.
 
I could potentially agree with mhs+ but also no. jump at the speed of light without context is worth nothing. but for mhs+ there are many statements and people have demonstrated that the speed of lightning is within their reach
 
Kin201 said:
"Lightning-fast" is a metaphorical expression usually used to describe something that is very fast or rapid. It doesn't necessarily mean the thing is literally as fast as real lighting. Btw, is the novel canon to the manga?
Click to expand...
Well I wouldn't say, from the definition for example as fast as means fast as, as we know that it is used to express equality etc, furthermore just look at the context, it is not a character who sees another going fast and maybe he is subsonic and says: that guy is fast as lightning. That appears from his eyes and can be taken as a rhetorical figure, I don't think you can say it when it is the narration that speaks and expresses the speed of Zenitsu to us, furthermore all this is consistent thanks also to this explanation of the Databook. I translated it because being Italian I have the databook in Italian, however this is what it says, so it's all consistent
image.png
 
Xaropadob3ta said:
Molto bene! Avevo proposto questa velocità in questa pagina , poiché avevo fatto anche una KE.

Sono d'accordo su tutto, vorrei aggiungere alcune doti che ho notato sull'AP, visto che parliamo di up.

Zenitsu fa tremare una montagna con il suo urlo .

Forse dovremmo considerare questa foresta montuosa come qualcosa di lunga 2.000 m , penso che questa sarebbe la media, penso che i risultati sarebbero coerenti con il KE.

Dovrei dire che quando usava il respiro risuonava un suono come un tuono attraverso la montagna, non solo ma faceva " tremori " dove si trovava.

C'è anche un'altra impresa di Muzan che è stata dimenticata, raggiunse la villa di Ubuyashiki, e fu dichiarata alla sua portata, non a causa della risonanza di qualche kekijutsu.
Click to expand...
That's Cool.
Kin201 said:
Sicuramente non è sempre così nella narrativa, ma in questo caso non lo so, quindi lo faccio semplicemente notare. Le imprese di supporto sono importanti, se ce ne sono.

Tutte le altre affermazioni mi sembrano simili. Tutti menzionano che Zenitsu è "veloce come un fulmine" e Kanao salta "alla velocità della luce". Quindi hai ragione sul fatto che ci sono affermazioni coerenti che parlano di fulmini. Lascerò ai moderatori decidere se le dichiarazioni si qualificano per MHS+.
Click to expand...
As for it being MSH+ Zenitsu and automatically scaling the verse, we also have another consistency.

You'll see lighting before you hear a sound and that's what we do here when Zentisu does this move against the spider demon.

The air vibrates.

And when he kills the spider demon you can hear a roar caused by lightning.

You can see Zenitsu's presence change, and that's what lightning does.

And this too.

Below you will find the scans, sorry but using the translator I didn't realize that I had actually copied it always in Italian, since it would be tiring to reciprocate and take the scans again I put the translation above.

Per quanto riguarda il fatto che sia MSH+ Zenitsu e ridimensioni automaticamente il verso, abbiamo anche un'altra coerenza.

Vedrai l'illuminazione prima di sentire un suono ed è quello che facciamo qui quando Zentisu fa questa mossa contro il demone ragno.

L'aria vibra .

E quando uccide il demone ragno puoi sentire un rombo causato da un fulmine .

Puoi vedere il cambiamento della presenza di Zenitsu , ed è quello che fanno i fulmini .

E anche questo.
 
Dark_Soul20189 said:
Hard disagree with all Zenitsu upgrades

But seriusly, since when did demon Slayer have novels?
Click to expand...
May I ask why you would disagree with this?

Furthermore, Demon Slayer has had novels for a long time and they are followed by the author of the work and do not present contradictions, they are expressly canonical
 
Hxskyy2005 said:
I could potentially agree with mhs+ but also no. jump at the speed of light without context is worth nothing. but for mhs+ there are many statements and people have demonstrated that the speed of lightning is within their reach
Click to expand...
My argument was never about speed of light. It's about speed of lightning for the verse. I did add context to the jumping statement.
 
Kin201 said:
All other statements look similar to me. They all mention Zenitsu being "lightning fast" and Kanao jumping at "lightning speed". So you have a point that there are consistent statements talking about lightning. I'll leave it to the mods to decide whether the statements qualify for MHS+.
Click to expand...
👍🏼
 
KnyRaizn said:
May I ask why you would disagree with this?

Furthermore, Demon Slayer has had novels for a long time and they are followed by the author of the work and do not present contradictions, they are expressly canonical
Click to expand...
Even if they follow the original work, you will still need to prove this is in the novel that are not in the manga are canon.
 
PrinceofPein said:
Even if they follow the original work, you will still need to prove this is in the novel that are not in the manga are canon.
Click to expand...
Dude this sounds bad to me, it literally says that the author of those Novels is Gotoge with another writer...

They present no contradictions and follow the narrative

If it is written that Gotoge followed the writing he automatically ensured that they were not wrong before putting them on the market, and furthermore we are connected to the first point.

They are canonical
 
KnyRaizn said:
Dude this sounds bad to me, it literally says that the author of those Novels is Gotoge with another writer...

They present no contradictions and follow the narrative

If it is written that Gotoge followed the writing he automatically ensured that they were not wrong before putting them on the market, and furthermore we are connected to the first point.

They are canonical
Click to expand...
may i see your source of your claims?
 
Key statement: Assistance in production.
The novel is based off the manga, meaning secondary canon. I.e. anything in the novel not in the manga, is not accepted as canon here
 
PrinceofPein said:
Key statement: Assistance in production.
The novel is based off the manga, meaning secondary canon. I.e. anything in the novel not in the manga, is not accepted as canon here
Click to expand...
The LN's are overseen and corrected by Gotouge. Gotouge even asks them to change certain things and correct them. Such as Tengen not addressing Inosuke by name at all, hence it has to be considered in the novel. The LN's are also vastly different than the novels, the LN's are just side stories written by someone else but the story is made by Gotouge. Similarly to the Gaiden, which the verse literally uses a feat from to upscale characters later on. It's not in the manga yet is still canon and used on VSBW. The novels are just retellings of the manga itself. I.e Ch0 to Ch205 in more detail, easier understandable furagana, and gives insight to off screen feats such as Tengen squeezing his abdominal muscles when he gets stabbed by Gyutaro to slash his arm off. The manga and anime both imply that same feat happens the same just like the novel does. The onomatopoeia, as well as the stop of the Bodhistava in the Kanao feat is also not contradicted just more detail is added to it. Considering Shueisha works closely with Gotouge I see no reason to believe that this very likely has been approved by Gotouge, not that there's been any contradictions therefore making it atleast tertiary canon thus useable for feats and statements as long as they aren't completely new abilities.
 
Kin201 said:
Not always the case in fiction sure, but in this case, I don't know, so I'm just pointing it out. Supporting feats are important if there are any.
Click to expand...
This calculation was accepted using the old snail speed, currently the snail speed is given as 0.00275m/s, with small recalculations, we have:

Snail speed: 0.00275

Timeframe: 0.00275 / 31.2928(basketball speed) = 0.00008787964 Segs

Tanjiro's speed: 33.74111616/0.00008787964= 383946,909204452m/s or Mach 1119,37874403630.

Mhs+

Would this serve as consistency?
 
Xaropadob3ta said:
This calculation was accepted using the old snail speed, currently the snail speed is given as 0.00275m/s, with small recalculations, we have:

Snail speed: 0.00275

Timeframe: 0.00275 / 31.2928(basketball speed) = 0.00008787964 Segs

Tanjiro's speed: 33.74111616/0.00008787964= 383946,909204452m/s or Mach 1119,37874403630.

Mhs+

Would this serve as consistency?
Click to expand...
Umm, I don't know why this calc isn't being used on Tanjiro profile? Maybe it has issues?
 
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