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Demon Slayer (Kimetsu no Yaiba) - Breath of Discussion: 5th Form

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Set Your Heart Ablaze

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Would be an understatement to say that this is a big week for KnY.

The Mugen Train movie has released, and shattered Japan's boxoffice record for the first and second day. In addition, we had the 19 page preview for Rengoku Volume Zero (full 84 pages given to movie goers), alongside Rengoku Gaiden Part 1 & 2.

Discuss the franchise, bring light to news, and discuss CRT plans.
 
I also have an issue with the MHS+ calc.

And the other calc you listed doesn't seem to be even accepted.
 
Feel free to discuss it here or a CRT.
Commented my criticism of your calc.
First calc is approved by DMUA. Second calc is also approved by DMUA, afterwards Damage inquired on whether 'react to sound' means reacting to sound once they have heard it; which is concern on whether there is a devious play on words (there isn't), but haven't responded back.

Also fan animation clip of Akaza's compass until the Blu-ray of the movie releases.
 
In this light novel chapter Inosuke could sense the ill intent of a fraudulent fortune teller though it is only revealed towards the end of it. Would that add anything worthwhile towards his Powers and Abilities section?
 
Characters sensing each other's presence and intent to kill is a general ability. Sensing ill intent would fall under Enhanced Senses; it is similar to Tanjiro using his enhanced sense of smell to know people and animal's thoughts, and Zenitsu using his enhanced sense of hearing to know people's thoughts.

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The results of the second character polls are out

Our boy Zenitsu got the #1 spot. If someone asks why Japan's population is declining, you can cite this poll.
Also, Enmu > Akaza 🧂
 
Characters sensing each other's presence and intent to kill is a general ability. Sensing ill intent would fall under Enhanced Senses; it is similar to Tanjiro using his enhanced sense of smell to know people and animal's thoughts, and Zenitsu using his enhanced sense of hearing to know people's thoughts.

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The results of the second character polls are out

Our boy Zenitsu got the #1 spot. If someone asks why Japan's population is declining, you can cite this poll.
Also, Enmu > Akaza 🧂
Well, Tanjirou has Clairvoyance as an extension of his incredibly good sense of smell on his profile and Zenitsu has Telepathy for being able to hear peoples' thoughts.
 
Shouldn't Rengoku have an at most City Block level+ considering the justifications for his Attack Potency?
I’d say he should be At most city block level+ as well as with his near death adrenaline boost(It’s how I interpret it)he almost chopped off Akaza’s head it looked like Rengoku was about to cut through before Akaza attacked.
And Sanemi is given 8-B+ for Chipping Kokushibo’s neck and Rengoku Cut deeper in Akaza’s neck.

At the very least he should be down scaled to at most 8-B

Also is Zenitsu gonna get at least 8-C
 
I’d say he should be At most city block level+ as well as with his near death adrenaline boost(It’s how I interpret it)he almost chopped off Akaza’s head it looked like Rengoku was about to cut through before Akaza attacked.
And Sanemi is given 8-B+ for Chipping Kokushibo’s neck and Rengoku Cut deeper in Akaza’s neck.

At the very least he should be down scaled to at most 8-B

Also is Zenitsu gonna get at least 8-C
Zenitsu must somehow scale to an at least 8-C character or have a calculation that puts him at that level. Is there anything like that?
 
Zenitsu must somehow scale to an at least 8-C character or have a calculation that puts him at that level. Is there anything like that?
I mainly think he should be at least 8-C because when everyone was tired he preformed better than Inosuke and The Love Pillar against Muzan granted Muzan was very weakened
And Zenitsu even has Muzan wack him and he gets up shortly after if anyone thinks it’s just because everyone else was more tired then it’s a stamina feat for Zenitsu
But I honestly think it’s just that he’s 8-C
 
I mainly think he should be at least 8-C because when everyone was tired he preformed better than Inosuke and The Love Pillar against Muzan granted Muzan was very weakened
And Zenitsu even has Muzan wack him and he gets up shortly after if anyone thinks it’s just because everyone else was more tired then it’s a stamina feat for Zenitsu
But I honestly think it’s just that he’s 8-C
I do agree with the idea of Zenitsu being stronger than his current tiering suggests but I think that we would need a better reasoning for that since it has a certain amount of vagueness.
 
I do agree with the idea of Zenitsu being stronger than his current tiering suggests but I think that we would need a better reasoning for that since it has a certain amount of vagueness.
I mean idk it just feels weird to have him as Just a 9-A the narrative kinda implies that each member of Tanjiro’s group is basically the level of the average Pillar
With Zenitsu being able to 1v1 a upper demon moon (Granted only Upper tank 6 that was still not used to his abilities)

Kind of a shame he didn’t get more concrete feats I suppose especially with the inconsistent durability of demon bodies outside of their necks So unfortunately his feats of slicing super weakened Muzan are irrelevant

But if people think it’s just too vague maybe Zenitsu can become
At least 9-A Possibly 8-C
 
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I mean idk it just feels weird to have him as Just a 9-A the narrative kinda implies that each member of Tanjiro’s group is basically the level of the average Pillar
With Zenitsu being able to 1v1 a upper demon moon (Granted only Upper tank 6 that was still not used to his abilities)

Kind of a shame he didn’t get more concrete feats I suppose especially with the inconsistent durability of demon bodies outside of their necks So unfortunately his feats of slicing super weakened Muzan are irrelevant

But if people think it’s just too vague maybe Zenitsu can become
At least 9-A Possibly 8-C
Well, in the first two keys Zenitsu is comparable to Tanjirou and Inosuke in terms of Attack Potency and he also went through the Pillar Training like them, so I think that it makes the most sense for him to be comparable to them in Attack Potency in his third key as well from a narrative perspective.
 
Well, in the first two keys Zenitsu is comparable to Tanjirou and Inosuke in terms of Attack Potency and he also went through the Pillar Training like them, so I think that it makes the most sense for him to be comparable to them in Attack Potency in his third key as well from a narrative perspective.
That is also true as while this is a different verse Bakugo got upgraded to be considered a match for 30% Deku on the wiki based on Narrative reasons as well and based on how he is always comparable he was to Deku’s casual Percentages and Bakugo’s use of wording like how it’s hard keeping up with Deku but didn’t say he fell behind(Granted this is far more blatant than it is with KNY)

So I feel using those reasons as supporting Evidence shouldn’t be a problem especially since as you said Zenitsu throughout the whole series is shown to be comparable to Inosuke and Tanjiro if not stronger in a few cases
Also is really strange for him to make this giant leap in his speed after the pillar training yet he’s still way weaker than Inosuke and Tanjiro
 
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So the 8-B ratings for multiple characters here is based from this calc from Doma.
Pardon me for asking, but why are their AP being scaled from an object-creation feat?
If I'm not mistaken, the amount of energy from creating an object does not directly translate to AP. Or at least the energy generated by Demon Slayers swinging their sword doesn't scale to Doma making an ice sculpture.
 
So the 8-B ratings for multiple characters here is based from this calc from Doma.
Pardon me for asking, but why are their AP being scaled from an object-creation feat?
If I'm not mistaken, the amount of energy from creating an object does not directly translate to AP. Or at least the energy generated by Demon Slayers swinging their sword doesn't scale to Doma making an ice sculpture.
I’m not sure about it myself as I’m not the deepest into demon slayer scaling and kinda just accepted 8-B Demon Slayer but yeah with the energy input of creating that statue it doesn’t seem like Douma can apply that energy to his physical blows or something and I don’t think Kanao or inosuke even cut the statue
Like it feels like a shoto todoroki situation where the energy input is high but way weaker characters can still survive his heaven piercing ice wall
So I also wanna know now

Note:Object creation can apply to AP if it’s shown that the character can channel that energy into offense or defense
 
So the 8-B ratings for multiple characters here is based from this calc from Doma.
Pardon me for asking, but why are their AP being scaled from an object-creation feat?
If I'm not mistaken, the amount of energy from creating an object does not directly translate to AP. Or at least the energy generated by Demon Slayers swinging their sword doesn't scale to Doma making an ice sculpture.
Well, the energy for the creation feat was exerted using his Blood Demon Art which means that this is the amount of energy he can generally use with his Blood Demon Art, especially since he was weakened while performing this feat, so it is arguably weaker than it would have been with him at full strength.
 
I’m not sure about it myself as I’m not the deepest into demon slayer scaling and kinda just accepted 8-B Demon Slayer but yeah with the energy input of creating that statue it doesn’t seem like Douma can apply that energy to his physical blows or something and I don’t think Kanao or inosuke even cut the statue
Like it feels like a shoto todoroki situation where the energy input is high but way weaker characters can still survive his heaven piercing ice wall
So I also wanna know now

Note:Object creation can apply to AP if it’s shown that the character can channel that energy into offense or defense
For Shoto's case, Heaven Piercing Ice Wall can count as an AP because he forms it like a projectile, or a forward motion that counts as a strike. Even then, nobody really scales from it since its AoE is so huge (so the energy distribution is huge as well) so only something like Gigantomachia would scale to its AP or Durability if Machia ever got hit by that attack (also Shoto mostly used it to freeze people within it or as a barrier to prevent people from moving).
I don't really remember whether Doma used the Ice Buddha to strike at people, but even if he does, it doesn't necessarily mean he's striking with the same energy as the creation for the Buddha.

Well, the energy for the creation feat was exerted using his Blood Demon Art which means that this is the amount of energy he can generally use with his Blood Demon Art, especially since he was weakened while performing this feat, so it is arguably weaker than it would have been with him at full strength.
This doesn't justify nor explain that Doma would have an 8-B AP because of creating it, or that the Slayers or the Upper Moons would scale their AP and Durability to it, unless there is proof that there is correlation between these things.
Blood Demon Art isn't energy-based too, it provides all sorts of different abilities so I can't really see how they would scale to the Ice Sculpture, so I'm hoping for a better explanation for it.
 
For Shoto's case, Heaven Piercing Ice Wall can count as an AP because he forms it like a projectile, or a forward motion that counts as a strike. Even then, nobody really scales from it since its AoE is so huge (so the energy distribution is huge as well) so only something like Gigantomachia would scale to its AP or Durability if Machia ever got hit by that attack (also Shoto mostly used it to freeze people within it or as a barrier to prevent people from moving).
I don't really remember whether Doma used the Ice Buddha to strike at people, but even if he does, it doesn't necessarily mean he's striking with the same energy as the creation for the Buddha.


This doesn't justify nor explain that Doma would have an 8-B AP because of creating it, or that the Slayers or the Upper Moons would scale their AP and Durability to it, unless there is proof that there is correlation between these things.
Blood Demon Art isn't energy-based too, it provides all sorts of different abilities so I can't really see how they would scale to the Ice Sculpture, so I'm hoping for a better explanation for it.
Good point there on Shoto I forget that a bigger object results in force being more spread out so even if it hit all might it wouldn’t be the max of what it could do as he’s not big enough lol
 
For Shoto's case, Heaven Piercing Ice Wall can count as an AP because he forms it like a projectile, or a forward motion that counts as a strike. Even then, nobody really scales from it since its AoE is so huge (so the energy distribution is huge as well) so only something like Gigantomachia would scale to its AP or Durability if Machia ever got hit by that attack (also Shoto mostly used it to freeze people within it or as a barrier to prevent people from moving).
I don't really remember whether Doma used the Ice Buddha to strike at people, but even if he does, it doesn't necessarily mean he's striking with the same energy as the creation for the Buddha.


This doesn't justify nor explain that Doma would have an 8-B AP because of creating it, or that the Slayers or the Upper Moons would scale their AP and Durability to it, unless there is proof that there is correlation between these things.
Blood Demon Art isn't energy-based too, it provides all sorts of different abilities so I can't really see how they would scale to the Ice Sculpture, so I'm hoping for a better explanation for it.
Doma did use the Ice Buddha to strike at Kanao and Inosuke among other things. Kanao also noted that it was a last-ditch effort from Doma due to him having noticed the effect of Shinobu's poison. She also mentioned how that technique is massive and how she is surprised that he has this much strength remaining.
 
Like I said, that doesn't explain that the Ice Buddha hits with the same amount of force as the amount of energy it took to create it.
I still don't see why the Slayers and Demons would scale to it either.
 
Doma did use the Ice Buddha to strike at Kanao and Inosuke among other things. Kanao also noted that it was a last-ditch effort from Doma due to him having noticed the effect of Shinobu's poison. She also mentioned how that technique is massive and how she is surprised that he has this much strength remaining.
Although it is different as it’s not like the energy used in its creation is flung like a projectile
it was created then basically fought from there like a robot or action figure moving on its own so not quite
 
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Although if the 8-B calc does persist

Then I’m probably gonna ask why Kokushibo isn’t Baseline 8-A like Muzan Hinokami Mastered Tanjiro and Yorichi
As I’ve for a while had a bone to pick with him not being 8-A
 
Although if the 8-B calc does persist

Then I’m probably gonna ask why Kokushibo isn’t Baseline 8-A like Muzan Hinokami Mastered Tanjiro and Yorichi
As I’ve for a while had a bone to pick with him not being 8-A
The 8-A ratings is still based on Muzan being "incomparably stronger" than the Upper Moons, so he was put within the baseline 8-A rating.
Is it reasonable to assume that Muzan's AP actually scales to Doma's creation feat, though? I just want to hear people's thoughts on that.

And to answer the question, it's probably because of the statement of Muzan being incomparably stronger than the Upper Moons, and Kokushibo never really being on the same level as his brother or Muzan that he doesn't get an 8-A rating. Let's remember that, while Kokushibo is probably weaker back then, he still lost to Yoriichi who was already on death's doorstep due to old age (and in fact died right after humiliating Kokushibo).
 
The 8-A ratings is still based on Muzan being "incomparably stronger" than the Upper Moons, so he was put within the baseline 8-A rating.
Is it reasonable to assume that Muzan's AP actually scales to Doma's creation feat, though? I just want to hear people's thoughts on that.

And to answer the question, it's probably because of the statement of Muzan being incomparably stronger than the Upper Moons, and Kokushibo never really being on the same level as his brother or Muzan that he doesn't get an 8-A rating. Let's remember that, while Kokushibo is probably weaker back then, he still lost to Yoriichi who was already on death's doorstep due to old age (and in fact died right after humiliating Kokushibo).
His Blood demon Art id say would clearly scale above Douma’s in AP although it’s more so trying to paralyze than hit/kill anyone so yeah kinda iffy

I feel Kokushibo deserves 8-A purely on the basis that He is far far stronger than weakened Douma is.
He also fought stronger enemies having to fight Marked Sanemi and Gyomei(Two of the stronger pillars)Simultaneously compared to the opposition Akaza and Douma faced although Douma was toying with Inosuke and Kanao and constantly Blitzing them.

Also the way how Kokushibo basically ordered Akaza and Doma around at the upper moon meeting and how the narrative makes it out to be that Akaza would probably never reach Kokushibo’s Level with Kokushibo remarking “Good Luck” in a because you’re gonna need it type way when Akaza said he’d beat him one day

Whom should be somewhat comparable to Douma especially since Douma somewhat compliments Akaza’s Blows and claimed that he got stronger in the past 113 years.
And this shouldn’t be too inconsistent either as he did get 400+ years to train and eat people so He’s probably still weaker than Muzan and Yorichi but in a Similar Order of Magnitude of Hinokami Mastered Tanjiro.
 
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The 8-A ratings is still based on Muzan being "incomparably stronger" than the Upper Moons, so he was put within the baseline 8-A rating.
Is it reasonable to assume that Muzan's AP actually scales to Doma's creation feat, though? I just want to hear people's thoughts on that.

And to answer the question, it's probably because of the statement of Muzan being incomparably stronger than the Upper Moons, and Kokushibo never really being on the same level as his brother or Muzan that he doesn't get an 8-A rating. Let's remember that, while Kokushibo is probably weaker back then, he still lost to Yoriichi who was already on death's doorstep due to old age (and in fact died right after humiliating Kokushibo).
Kokushibo actually noted that Yoriichi's strength and speed was no different from his prime as an old man.
 
So does anyone agree with my reasoning for Kokushibo
Well, I'm very skeptical about Doma being 8-B or the Slayers and the Demons scaling from the energy from his creation feat. The reasons being:
  • Doma's physical strikes doesn't necessarily have the same amount of energy as his Ice Sculpture creation, for reasons that the latter is an entirely different technique and a Blood Demon Art
  • Following above, the people who scale to him due to being comparable or stronger (Akaza and Kokushibo) aren't necessarily 8-B. Neither would be the people who parried attacks from them (Kanae and Inosuke vs Doma, Tanjiro and Giyu vs Akaza, the Pillars vs Kokushibo).
So I can't say if Kokushibo would be 8-A since it's directly affected by Doma's rating.

But ignoring my skepticism, Doma's AP is 70.1 Tons while Muzan upscales to baseline 8-A which is 100 tons for being better than Doma. It's honestly easy to assume that Kokushibo belongs in between those two AP ratings, so I feel like a more comprehensive list of evidences is needed. Especially since it could affect Muzan's rating as well, if I'm not mistaken as he's also superior to Kokushibo by an unknown but a great margin.
 
Well, I'm very skeptical about Doma being 8-B or the Slayers and the Demons scaling from the energy from his creation feat. The reasons being:
  • Doma's physical strikes doesn't necessarily have the same amount of energy as his Ice Sculpture creation, for reasons that the latter is an entirely different technique and a Blood Demon Art
  • Following above, the people who scale to him due to being comparable or stronger (Akaza and Kokushibo) aren't necessarily 8-B. Neither would be the people who parried attacks from them (Kanae and Inosuke vs Doma, Tanjiro and Giyu vs Akaza, the Pillars vs Kokushibo).
So I can't say if Kokushibo would be 8-A since it's directly affected by Doma's rating.

But ignoring my skepticism, Doma's AP is 70.1 Tons while Muzan upscales to baseline 8-A which is 100 tons for being better than Doma. It's honestly easy to assume that Kokushibo belongs in between those two AP ratings, so I feel like a more comprehensive list of evidences is needed. Especially since it could affect Muzan's rating as well, if I'm not mistaken as he's also superior to Kokushibo by an unknown but a great margin.
I Also think it would affect Muzan’s scaling a lot.

But When Giyu said he was incomparable to the upper moons he was likely refering to Akaza as he never fought Kokushibo or Douma he was just likely making an educated guess based on Akaza on how much stronger Muzan would be.

Best reference point would probably be the Kokushibo fight where Gyomei could get close and 1v1 Kokushibo for an extended period of time
While against Muzan even with Backup from even more Pillar level fighters was basically just stuck in place and got far less clean shots on Muzan.
So I’d say the gap is quite noticeable but Muzan is not like far far beyond UM1

So id say ignoring skeptism going off 70 ton Douma
Kokushibo is would be 8-A or possibly 8-A
Muzan becomes At least 8-A just like Yorichi ofc Yorichi is way stronger still
Although that might make Pillar scaling a little iffy for Gyomei who could 1v1 Kokushibo
 
I Also think it would affect Muzan’s scaling a lot.

But When Giyu said he was incomparable to the upper moons he was likely refering to Akaza as he never fought Kokushibo or Douma he was just likely making an educated guess based on Akaza on how much stronger Muzan would be.

Best reference point would probably be the Kokushibo fight where Gyomei could get close and 1v1 Kokushibo for an extended period of time
While against Muzan even with Backup from even more Pillar level fighters was basically just stuck in place and got far less clean shots on Muzan.
So I’d say the gap is quite noticeable but Muzan is not like far far beyond UM1

So id say ignoring skeptism going off 70 ton Douma
Kokushibo is would be 8-A or possibly 8-A
Muzan becomes At least 8-A just like Yorichi ofc Yorichi is way stronger still
Although that might make Pillar scaling a little iffy for Gyomei who could 1v1 Kokushibo
He was weakened by Tamayo at the time though.
 
I was more imagining that the statue feat Doma did was more of environmental destruction.

We also need to make a solid tiering for Demon Tanjiro.
 
I was more imagining that the statue feat Doma did was more of environmental destruction.

We also need to make a solid tiering for Demon Tanjiro.
Demon Tanjiro is a really mixed bag ngl like we know clearly he surpassed Muzan but we don’t know how much or if he was simply on his way to surpassing Muzan since he was still animalistic and couldn’t use his powers properly
So there are several fair interpretations on how strong he could’ve been

I also feel Douma’s 8-B being environmental destruction is a little iffy but you could make the argument for it
Edit:Thinking about it more Environmental destruction makes sense since there isn’t a reason as to why it scales to his normal statistics
Although the Blood demon arts of Muzan and Kokushibo would to that energy input scale I think
 
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Well, I've tried to think about what reasons there are for Doma to overall scale to his creation feat and looked through the manga and the Kimetsu no Yaiba wiki for that. This is what I managed to come up with:

1. Doma's ice replicas of himself broke the moment he began to feel the effects of Shinobu's poison which shows that there is a connection between his physical constitution and his ice creations.

2. Kanao's comment about him being able to use such a massive technique despite being weakened by Shinobu's poison implies that this is supposed to be a feat of power on Doma's part.

3. Blood Demon Arts and Demons are so interconnected that the Blood Demon Arts are affected by sunlight and Nichirin swords the same way they affect demons. This is displayed by how Tanjirou was able to undo the effects of Muzan's shockwave scream on his body by stabbing himself and Yushiro outright stated that in his thoughts as the reason why he couldn't do anything when Tanjirou was turned into a Demon.
 
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Well, I've tried to think about what reasons there are for Doma to overall scale to his creation feat and looked through the manga and the Kimetsu no Yaiba wiki for that. This is what I managed to come up with:

1. Doma's ice replicas of himself broke the moment he began to feel the effects of Shinobu's poison which shows that there is a connection between his physical constitution and his ice creations.

2. Kanao's comment about him being able to use such a massive technique despite being weakened by Shinobu's poison implies that this is supposed to be a feat of power on Doma's part.

3. Blood Demon Arts and Demons are so interconnected that the Blood Demon Arts are affected by sunlight and Nichirin swords the same way they affect demons. This is displayed by how Tanjirou was able to undo the effects of Muzan's shockwave scream on his body by stabbing himself and Yushiro outright stated that in his thoughts as the reason why he couldn't do anything when Tanjirou was turned into a Demon.
Of the three of those I’d say only the third has the plausibility of being valid

As for 2. Putting more energy into a creation feat that doesn’t scale to your standard statistics is possible
And for 1.Maintaining and actually creating those Ice sculptures would clearly take extremely different amounts of energy it’s far easier to keep something in existence than to poof it out of seemingly no where in a flash

3 is debatable saying the blood demon arts are interconnected makes a lot of sense but I still wouldn’t say it shows that the power he can put into Creating it he standardly has in his defense/standard blows if he couldn’t then what it would mean for the scaling is that blood demon arts would simply scale above the demons themselves
(Example Douma would physically be High 8-C upscaled off Zou Hakuten but 8-B with his blood demon art)

The only exception to this in series would Be Rui since his Neck is stronger than his threads even though he cut himself with those very same threads Consistent
 
"The only exception to this in series would Be Rui since his Neck is stronger than his threads even though he cut himself with those very same threads Consistent"

Threads are pretty thin, provided he applies enough force, cutting himself with them should be possible unless the difference between the threads and his body is a really enormous one.
 
"The only exception to this in series would Be Rui since his Neck is stronger than his threads even though he cut himself with those very same threads Consistent"

Threads are pretty thin, provided he applies enough force, cutting himself with them should be possible unless the difference between the threads and his body is a really enormous one.
It seemed pretty massive as Dance of the fire god Tanjiro was slicing his full power threads
Yet when he actually struck Rui he only Nicked his Neck before Nezuko’s Flames Burned through

So likely his neck is far above his threads
Although the rest of his body probably not so much as the rest of a demons body is hella inconsistent
 
It seemed pretty massive as Dance of the fire god Tanjiro was slicing his full power threads
Yet when he actually struck Rui he only Nicked his Neck before Nezuko’s Flames Burned through

So likely his neck is far above his threads
Then he probably applied just that much force when cutting his own head off with his threads? It was an emergency for him after all.
 
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