A mad scientist fights against a greek warrior.

[Theglassman12]

How exactly does portalling Kratos even work here? He opens a portal and throws him in? Cause he can just dodge the portals.

 

[Theuser789]

I never said portalling Kratos, the Time Eater can use portals to travel and increase distance between the two, like it does in Gens

 

[Theglassman12]

You said he can use portals to send Kratos away. So which one is it? Does he portal Kratos away or does he use it on himself?

 

[Theuser789]

furthermore the Time Eater can easily increase that gap with portals as well

I said this, refering to the Time Eater using portals on himself to increase the distance, and even then he can do both, he can send people through portals or use it himself

 

[ElixirBlue]

Eggman fra

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Infinite speed doesn't make you inmune according to our rules ("While time stop, which could be viewed as an infinite speed amplification, is assumed to work even on characters that would usually bypass it via speed, those matches can likewise not be added.) therefore time stop that works with actual resistance>infinite speed, all it does is make the match not be added

So the match can't be added.....

 

[Theglassman12]

So what’s exactly stopping Kratos from just flying into the same portal he goes through? Especially when again, army of hades covers all of the eggrobos easily so nothings distracting him from charging at time eater.

 

[Theuser789]

Because the Time Eater literally closes it right after entering it during the game, also they don't, Eggman has machines in space

 

[Theuser789]

So the match can't be added.....

Only if it's a major reason, which doesn't seem to be, main arguments is range and numbers advantage and him not resisting the Time Eater erasing the tmeline

 

[ElixirBlue]

IF...Eggman is overwhelmed which is unlikely to happen if Kratos cannot even scratch the bots. And these are projectiles. Which can be dodged.

Kratos is pragmatic and tactically acute to switch to his other Claws instantly upon realising his power disadvantage.

Eggman neither has Extrasensory Perception to see the souls and neither has NPI to interact with them. Pretty sure the souls just invade the bots and attack Eggman without him realising.

Eggman captured ghosts all the way back in 3&K, he definitvely has non-physical interaction

Also, it's pretty likely that Eggman would lead the Time Eater to use restraint trap if he is in a overwhelmed state.

Also this

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Has the soul of Hades

Kratos has soul of Hades and all his his powers.
Which includes portal creation. He even has this on Ascension key.

Also this

Doesn't stop robots from getting power nulled.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Will Kratos resist from being directly sealed into the White Space? Because that's one of the first things Time Eater does when leading BFR and EE.

 

[Theuser789]

Kratos has soul of Hades and all his his powers.
Which includes portal creation. He even has this on Ascension key.

Ok and? How would this change what I argued? Having portals doesn't mean he can go exactly where Eggman is, all it means he might come back from BFR if the portals have enough range, which won't matter because they will be erased

Edit: Hades has claravoynce, which might make him know where he went, but my argument is that Kratos wouldn't be able to destroy it before it erases the timeline anyways, plus it still has to fight two machines stronger than him (Real Phantom Ruby and Egg Salamender), I still don't see Kratos destroying everything before it's erased

 

[ElixirBlue]

Doesn't stop robots from getting power nulled.

I guess you’re right, but I also wonder if that’s gonna be Kratos’ first move

 

[Theuser789]

Also has Kratos powernulled things far stronger than him?

 

[Theglassman12]

@ElixirBlue that ability’s part of his blades of chaos and is one of the most reoccurring abilities he gains throughout the games, so it’s definitely in character for him.

@Theuser789 ok, that means less robots for Kratos to deal with if they’re in space and not on the planet.

the power null makes you weaker, and also I don’t see resistance to power null anywhere on time eater or eggman’s page so they get affected by the hax easily so strength doesn’t mean anything.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

@ElixirBlue
Its a crowd control magic, designed protect him from getting ganged up on from multiple enemies attacking him.

@Theuser789
Yes. Hades used it to defeat Atlas who was stronger than him during Titanomachy because its Type 2 power null on power null page.
Zeus magic is also same type.
The one which which makes strength difference Irrelevant.

 

[Theuser789]

ok, that means less robots for Kratos to deal with if they’re in space and not on the planet.

Wasn't your argument that Kratos would destroy everything immeaditely? My point was that he can't destroy everything before he gets erased, something I still haven't seen a counter for

I asked about powernull because of this part of the page

It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter. It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and a character may be resistant to the ability (at least in one of its forms), preventing it from having its usual effects.

However, certain forms of Power Nullification may prevent the usage of powers through less direct methods, making resistance less useful and the strength of the ability less relevant.

Since Eggman's machines are far stronger than Kratos due to being half 2-C, I assume it wouldn't work without feats

Yes. Hades used it to defeat Atlas who was stronger than him during Titanomachy because its Type 2 power null on power null page.

Type 2? You mean this?

Immortality / Regeneration Negation: Many characters and weapons have the ability to ignore the immortality and regenerative abilities of their opponents, allowing them to kill characters with wounds they would otherwise survive. As with other powers, this is generally limited by the strongest level of regeneration and the types of immortality that the ability has nullified, and an ability may be limited to just immortality or just regeneration. Killing a character through means they can't survive even with their immortality doesn't count; killing someone who can regenerate from just a soul can just as easily be Soul Manipulation, depending on the context.

Because I don't see how it helps here

Oh! I forgot that Eggman can just have Metal Sonic use Chaos Control to stop time for Eggman in order to help him out, as well as copying Kratos' abilities (albeit at a lesser extent)

Or the Egg Salamender can use it's spatial slicing, which would work on Kratos due to it's infinitly superior lifting strengh:

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Type 2? You mean this?

I meant this

However, certain forms of Power Nullification may prevent the usage of powers through less direct methods, making resistance less useful and the strength of the ability less relevant.

Both Hades and Zeus magic work this way. And I already gave feat of Hades haxxing Atlas who was stronger than him during Titanomachy.
Another one is Zeus turing Prometheus mortal by stripping him off his divine powers.

 

[Theglassman12]

that wasn’t my point, you kept arguing he’ll be distracted by all the robots, I said that the army of hades would take care of that as all of the robots would have to deal with hundreds upon hundreds of souls attacking them all at once while Kratos can go straight to Eggman, so you’re strawmanning my argument.

There’s also the fact that the power null page is stated to be a case by case basis. There is no stated weakness on the power nulls in god of war to be limited to power, you either resist them or you don’t.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Also they Bypass layers of resistance....but I don't remember them well now.

 

[Theuser789]

Both Hades and Zeus magic work this way. And I already gave feat of Hades haxxing Atlas who was stronger than him during Titanomachy.
Another one is Zeus turing Prometheus mortal by stripping him off his divine powers.

Alright, but are they as strong as Eggman's machines here? Because that's what matters, we can't just argue he just looks at something far stronger than most of his verse (?) and makes them abolutely powerless, you haven't explained how his magic works, what would they null from Eggman?

that wasn’t my point, you kept arguing he’ll be distracted by all the robots, I said that the army of hades would take care of that as all of the robots would have to deal with hundreds upon hundreds of souls attacking them all at once while Kratos can go straight to Eggman, so you’re strawmanning my argument.

Oh? it's just some souls attacking them? Because if so Phantom King and Egg Salamender can just one shoot them, I wasn't strawmanning you, your point simply isn't clear, anyways I still don't see a point of how Kratos kills eggman before he erases the timeline, especially with his time travel and other time manip to give himself more time

There’s also the fact that the power null page is stated to be a case by case basis. There is no stated weakness on the power nulls in god of war to be limited to power, you either resist them or you don’t.

It literally isn't, if it is quote it here where "case by case" is said, it's stated it's assumed to not work without feats (It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter. It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and a character may be resistant to the ability (at least in one of its forms), preventing it from having its usual effects), you can't claim for example Kratos can powernull a tier 1 because they don't resist it, and if it is the second case, it hasn't been explained how it works and what it would do

 

[Theglassman12]

Not just some souls attacking you, they would transmutate you and nullify your powers on contact. That’s the main reason why I kept saying they don’t resist the army of hades hax as that’s what would happen.

Gilver already gave you feats on it working against someone far stronger than them like Atlas. There’s also the fact that Zeus’ power null rendered Kratos from a literal god to a weak mortal, so it’s very very potent.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

and if it is the second case, it hasn't been explained how it works and what it would do

Its strips victim of his power by cutting off power source.
Like cutting a wire.
It doesn't physically negate power like generic one.
Basically What Glassman said.

 

[Theuser789]

Not just some souls attacking you, they would transmutate you and nullify your powers on contact. That’s the main reason why I kept saying they don’t resist the army of hades hax as that’s what would happen.

The example in the page has them physically dragging someone down in order to null them:

Which wouldn't work with beings with far higher lifting strengh than it, also how many of these has Kratos even made? Eggman has thousands of robots

Gilver already gave you feats on it working against someone far stronger than them like Atlas.

None of those guys are as strong as Eggman's main bots, so I don't see why it would work, it just puts a limit on them

Its strips victim of his power by cutting off power source.
Like cutting a wire.
It doesn't physically negate power like generic one.

And how does it cut something from a power source? And why couldn't Eggman power them back on with stuff like Sol, Chaos emeralds, Master Emerald etc?

Also the Egg Salamender can one shoot Kratos with this move:


And he can't dodge it because of the Egg Salamender having far higher lifting strengh than Kratos

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Egg FRA for now

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

And how does it cut something from a power source? And why couldn't Eggman power them back on with stuff like Sol, Chaos emeralds, Master Emerald etc

Victims are incapable of using it again.
Unless he has feats of overcoming them in some supernatural way or rebuilding them on the spot. He is powerless.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Theuser789 the beginning of God of War 3 Kratos being submerged in the river Styx had his powers nullified by the souls of hades by them touching him so that’s not exactly lifting strength required at all.

 

[Theglassman12]

Also that doesn’t exactly help Eggman when type 8 immortality brings Kratos back to life. Oneshotting him means Jack shit as long as Hope exists.

 

[Theuser789]

Victims are incapable of using it again.

Incapable of using what exactly?

the beginning of God of War 3 Kratos being submerged in the river Styx had his powers nullified by the souls of hades by them touching him so that’s not exactly lifting strength required at all.

So it's touch based then? Then the machines simply avoid their touch using their flight or other abilities, defintvely not enough to beat Eggman in literal seconds

Also that doesn’t exactly help Eggman when type 8 immortality brings Kratos back to life. Oneshotting him means Jack shit as long as Hope exists.

Eggman can just BFR and seal him in white space or null space then, also is power of hope Kratos being used? OP only said GoW3 Kratos

 

[Theglassman12]

The army of hades acts as homing attack, you’re not dodging them, especially when there’s hundreds of souls out at once. Also you do realize that if they’re trying to dodge the army of hades they cannot distract Kratos at all? You’re just proving my point that they would be occupied by the army of hades more than they would against Kratos, so once again he can go in for the kill and hax Time eater to death and get the kill on Eggman.

god of war 3 Kratos has the power of hope so there’s that.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Incapable of using what exactly?

Both power source and equipment powered by it.

He lost all his divine powers in river styx and his equipment was rendered completely useless.....Athena had to rebuild Blades of Athena into Blades of Exile and suggested to seek Flames of Olympus as a new power source.

 

[Theuser789]

The army of hades acts as homing attack, you’re not dodging them, especially when there’s hundreds of souls out at once. Also you do realize that if they’re trying to dodge the army of hades they cannot distract Kratos at all? You’re just proving my point that they would be occupied by the army of hades more than they would against Kratos, so once again he can go in for the kill and hax Time eater to death and get the kill on Eggman.

The distraction is literally only for a couple seconds, since according to you Kratos can somehow kill something far stronger than him in less time than that, also he still wouldn't have the range to beat all of them anyways, you are acting as if Eggman is going to do absolutely nothing with all his weapons other than get killed in less than a second, something I still haven't seen a convicing argument, especially when his main hax being argued is easily dodgble

Both power source and equipment powered by it.

He lost all his divine powers in river styx and his equipment was rendered completely useless.....Athena had to rebuild Blades of Athena into Blades of Exile and suggested to seek Flames of Olympus as a new power source.

Yeah, I don't think this powernull can null equipment far stronger than Kratos himself without any feats

 

[DragonLord]

Eggman FRA

 

[Theglassman12]

Are any of the eggrobos that are distracting him all Low 2-C? Cause I don’t recall seeing that on eggman’s page, just the time eater and the egg salamander. Meaning they would work on them regardless of that weakness.

A homing attack based hax move is not easily dodgeable, give me scans right now on any of the egg robos dodging anything homing attack related then I’ll concede on this point.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yeah, I don't think this powernull can null equipment far stronger than Kratos himself without any feats

Thats no counter......

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Well I must be off to sleep again....will continue tomorrow.
Night.

 

[Theuser789]

Are any of the eggrobos that are distracting him all Low 2-C? Cause I don’t recall seeing that on eggman’s page, just the time eater and the egg salamander. Meaning they would work on them regardless of that weakness.

A homing attack based hax move is not easily dodgeable, give me scans right now on any of the egg robos dodging anything homing attack related then I’ll concede on this point.

The Eggrobos literally don't matter, I made that point because you said Kratos would kill Eggman in literal seconds, yet now I see that the hax that you kept hyping up is touch based and easily countered by all low 2-C mechs own homing projectiles and literally just flying out of range. Now I can definitvely say Eggman wins this, the Phantom King (or any other Ruby user) and the Egg Salamender counter the hands with their projectiles and abilities, while the Time Eater just erases the timeline and BFR Kratos into White Space

 

[Theglassman12]

You did not debunk a single thing I’ve made, you just said “oh it’s touch based so it won’t work” without proving how it won’t work when it’s a homing attack based move. Actually give me scans that they can dodge this and can bypass being nulled and weakened.

 

[CBslayeR]

Kratos FRA