-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Goku vs. Garou (Martial Arts Battle)
- Thread starter Kin201
- Start date
- Status
- 10,258
- 17,228
No
- 14,113
- 11,065
s̵o̵ ̵f̵a̵k̵e̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵n̵
Shey
He/Him- 2,037
- 948
Master Roshi doesn't have a manga profile, the anime went a different route iirc
- 10,632
- 9,322
It's not "fake skill" just because it's outside of what's replicable by humans and under the laws of physics.
For the same reasons super-geniuses don't have fake intelligence for accomplishing supernatural feats of intellect.
At some point, you simply exceed reality's boundaries.
- 9,176
- 6,585
I think he’s still talking about the realistic stuff.
None of our stuff are realistic
Goku negs Garou in the number of skills techniques and innovation from those mastered techniques (I counted Ki cuz utilizing Life energy to improve your MA counts in DB)
None of our stuff are realistic
Goku negs Garou in the number of skills techniques and innovation from those mastered techniques (I counted Ki cuz utilizing Life energy to improve your MA counts in DB)
- 14,113
- 11,065
n̵a̵h̵ ̵f̵a̵k̵e̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵ ̵
̵m̵i̵y̵a̵m̵o̵t̵o̵ ̵c̵u̵t̵t̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵d̵i̵m̵e̵n̵s̵i̵o̵n̵s̵ ̵i̵s̵n̵t̵ ̵a̵ ̵r̵e̵a̵l̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵ ̵f̵e̵a̵t̵ ̵f̵o̵r̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵s̵a̵m̵e̵ ̵r̵e̵a̵s̵o̵n̵ ̵d̵o̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵w̵a̵c̵k̵y̵ ̵h̵a̵x̵ ̵v̵i̵a̵ ̵"̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵"̵ ̵i̵s̵n̵t̵ ̵a̵ ̵r̵e̵a̵l̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵ ̵f̵e̵a̵t̵
I̵f̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵ ̵f̵e̵a̵t̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵q̵u̵e̵s̵t̵i̵o̵n̵ ̵c̵a̵n̵'̵t̵ ̵a̵c̵t̵u̵a̵l̵l̵y̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵t̵a̵n̵g̵i̵b̵l̵y̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵q̵u̵a̵n̵t̵i̵f̵i̵a̵b̵l̵y̵ ̵e̵x̵p̵l̵a̵i̵n̵e̵d̵ ̵u̵n̵d̵e̵r̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵p̵r̵o̵s̵p̵e̵c̵t̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵i̵r̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵.̵ ̵T̵h̵a̵t̵'̵s̵ ̵j̵u̵s̵t̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵a̵u̵t̵h̵o̵r̵ ̵s̵a̵y̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵s̵h̵i̵t̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵a̵t̵t̵r̵i̵b̵u̵t̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵i̵t̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵ ̵f̵o̵r̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵s̵a̵k̵e̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵i̵t̵
̵m̵i̵y̵a̵m̵o̵t̵o̵ ̵c̵u̵t̵t̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵d̵i̵m̵e̵n̵s̵i̵o̵n̵s̵ ̵i̵s̵n̵t̵ ̵a̵ ̵r̵e̵a̵l̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵ ̵f̵e̵a̵t̵ ̵f̵o̵r̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵s̵a̵m̵e̵ ̵r̵e̵a̵s̵o̵n̵ ̵d̵o̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵w̵a̵c̵k̵y̵ ̵h̵a̵x̵ ̵v̵i̵a̵ ̵"̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵"̵ ̵i̵s̵n̵t̵ ̵a̵ ̵r̵e̵a̵l̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵ ̵f̵e̵a̵t̵
I̵f̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵ ̵f̵e̵a̵t̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵q̵u̵e̵s̵t̵i̵o̵n̵ ̵c̵a̵n̵'̵t̵ ̵a̵c̵t̵u̵a̵l̵l̵y̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵t̵a̵n̵g̵i̵b̵l̵y̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵q̵u̵a̵n̵t̵i̵f̵i̵a̵b̵l̵y̵ ̵e̵x̵p̵l̵a̵i̵n̵e̵d̵ ̵u̵n̵d̵e̵r̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵p̵r̵o̵s̵p̵e̵c̵t̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵i̵r̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵.̵ ̵T̵h̵a̵t̵'̵s̵ ̵j̵u̵s̵t̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵a̵u̵t̵h̵o̵r̵ ̵s̵a̵y̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵s̵h̵i̵t̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵a̵t̵t̵r̵i̵b̵u̵t̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵i̵t̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵s̵k̵i̵l̵l̵ ̵f̵o̵r̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵s̵a̵k̵e̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵i̵t̵
- 10,632
- 9,322
Except in Garou's case, most of it actually can be tangibly and reasonably explained.
Garou is able to analytically predict through observation of one's stance, center of gravity, balance, muscle tension, breathing, and energy.
Through that, he foresees your next movements and is able to dodge before you even attack. He's shown this off many times, against those who also have the ability to do the same thing.
He's so skilled that his natural fighting instinct is able to fight at the level of Bang by itself, this is what I mean when I say he is able to fight while asleep. Without the need for Garou's conscious thoughts. Now, this is obviously a lot less explainable and quite frankly impossible, but it still goes to show how absolutely insane Garou's fighting IQ is. He's trained in martial arts to the point that his unconscious is a master martial artist.
And his unconscious is in fact so skilled that it can copy attacks after experiencing them a single time. Something Goku has never shown off. I think this is personally one of Garou's greatest feats. Because it shows that he has mastered the art of copying to the point of not even needing to see or consciously think to replicate and master techniques. And these aren't just your run-of-the-mill martial arts either, we're talking about a skill that Bang uses as a trump card, something he's taken years to master for himself.
Achieving UI while "unconscious" doesn't really count for Goku's skill btw, and can hardly be compared. It was just some random plot bullshit with him absorbing a spirit bomb and awakening because of "Willpower". He didn't actually accomplish anything with skill there. It was just another bullshit DB power boost. Him mastering it is a different story, though. That counts for some skill, but again, it pales in comparison considering Garou has done the same thing with his absorbed techniques. And don't bother with the "It takes gods millions of-" Just stop it already. This doesn't prove anything except that they really aren't all that.
As for Goku's Analytical Predictions, pretty sure the author doesn't even try to give it any reasonable explanation lol. What even is explained in DB? Feel like all I've seen is some lackluster statements. More reasons I find it hard to even take the stuff seriously.
Last edited:
- 9,176
- 6,585
What is this weird thing you do? You cross out every letter.
- 12,231
- 11,246
- 14,113
- 11,065
Yes this one is really good. Legit skill.
This isn't, fighting while asleep isn't "skill", you said yourself, it's instinct, it's more a hax ability if anything even if it's being played off as a testament of skill, it's not actually a display of skill, it's just a neat ability derived from instincts, but it's in no way an actual tangible skill feat. I'll give you it's a very cool, useful and based display of his instincts and what not, but as you said yourself, it's a bit sus.
Sure, but his unconscious being that skilled doesn't inherently mean his conscious is a billion times more skilled, of course, it is more skilled, but at the end of the day it's "martial mimicry", which is good but the difference between conscious and unconscious is unquantifiable and must be quantified based on their own innate skill feats and martial displays. Garou doing cool stuff is just good instincts + a special ability + martial mimicry, which while good I feel is being overblown just a tiny bit.
Don't know why you're going on a tangent at me, I never said Goku was more skilled, or Garou, in fact I didn't even really saying anything beyond lol hax shit ain't skill
It means don't really pay it any heed, I'm not entirely seriously, potentially joking depending on the context, or I'm not exactly invested. Could mean a lot of shit depending on the context it's applied in, don't worry to much about it.
- 14,113
- 11,065
I̵t̵ ̵a̵l̵w̵a̵y̵s̵ ̵w̵a̵s̵ ̵l̵a̵d̵
- 9,176
- 6,585
But hands that turn to nukes has the best explanation ever.
- 12,231
- 11,246
But like, it went from civil discussion to 2020 Presidential Debate in less than 24 hours lol
Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,231
- 12,279
- 9,176
- 6,585
Yeah… I think I’ll just let @Chariot190 go through this, since it’s his first time seeing these arguments.
- 10,632
- 9,322
I can agree to an extent. But note that him being unconscious while copying these techniques means that he did not even see them. And if he can copy techniques without even seeing them, I think it is clear whose mimicry is superior between Goku and Garou. Not to mention, this was when he fought an entire escalating battle while essentially not even looking or thinking, with his unconscious being capable of adapting and utilizing his techniques nearly perfectly against a martial artist who previously stomped him.
While the gap is sorta unquantifiable, I think a fair baseline is the gap between a normal person's unconscious mind and conscious mind. The most a normal human can do while unconscious is sleepwalking mindlessly, but while conscious they are capable of doing lots, lots more. Still unquantifiable, but the theoretical "Scaling chain" here would be absurd.
And the Goku stuff isn't really supposed to be directed at you. This is still a skill vs thread, so I'm trying to explain why I think Garou is more skilled and better at martial arts overall.
It's not a hax ability at all. Hax is durability negation, lol. Instinctive Reaction just tells you about a person's natural fighting instinct. I will agree it is separate from intellectual skill, but it is definitely relevant when talking about martial arts prowess.
Last edited:
- 12,231
- 11,246
Not always (e.g. Spider-Man per my earlier joke).
- 10,632
- 9,322
Well, in this context anyway.
- 12,231
- 11,246
If I may randomly interject, when I want to make skilled H2H characters in an RP, I use skills similar to either Garou or Roronoa Zoro. Might do something like the Goku VS Cell one if I'm actually writing a character, though.
- 10,258
- 17,228
- 3,167
- 1,830
- Thread starter
- #303
Help me move this thread to "General Discussion" or "Vs Threads"
Choose the one that you see fit. Thank you.
- 9,176
- 6,585
In the meantimeYes this one is really good. Legit skill.
This isn't, fighting while asleep isn't "skill", you said yourself, it's instinct, it's more a hax ability if anything even if it's being played off as a testament of skill, it's not actually a display of skill, it's just a neat ability derived from instincts, but it's in no way an actual tangible skill feat. I'll give you it's a very cool, useful and based display of his instincts and what not, but as you said yourself, it's a bit sus.
Sure, but his unconscious being that skilled doesn't inherently mean his conscious is a billion times more skilled, of course, it is more skilled, but at the end of the day it's "martial mimicry", which is good but the difference between conscious and unconscious is unquantifiable and must be quantified based on their own innate skill feats and martial displays. Garou doing cool stuff is just good instincts + a special ability + martial mimicry, which while good I feel is being overblown just a tiny bit.
Don't know why you're going on a tangent at me, I never said Goku was more skilled, or Garou, in fact I didn't even really saying anything beyond lol hax shit ain't skill
It means don't really pay it any heed, I'm not entirely seriously, potentially joking depending on the context, or I'm not exactly invested. Could mean a lot of shit depending on the context it's applied in, don't worry to much about it.
Rate these in your perspective on skill. what do you think? Idc what ya say, just wanna know.
Kid Goku going from reading moves and never getting hit by them to his Adult form reading 2-3 different fighting styles in order to predict a time stop spammer
Goku’s body predicts danger and his body instinctively reacts. This wasn't due to a hax, it was due to Beerus claiming Goku was a fighting progidy capable of instinctively reading his moves without reading his Ki. (Cuz Goku was only a SSJ3 at the time fighting Beerus on King Kai planet)
Kid Goku can imitate his master’s moves and using them to neg his master’s prediction and attack him. Kid Goku really does have a ton of skills now that I think about it.
Kid Goku can fight blind and his senses were honed under martial arts with Popo as a teacher. Speaking of teacher, most of his teacher after teaching him for some time just give up since he has mastered all their teachings. Meh.
I think Goku can make combat simulations in his head to predict who will win a fight… dunno if this counts
Kid and Adult Goku either learns or makes a MA technique useless to him after just seeing it once.
Seems like Super Goku and Kid Goku have what you’re looking for. Let me try Z
DBZ is just scaling chain of Goku beating multiple alien martial artists over the course of years
. His most notable was fighting an android with all the fighting traits of Vegeta, Goku, Picollo, Freiza, etc. DBZ Goku has accelerated development, he trains all the time even in death. So does that count?
Ki manipulation is considered a form of martial art in verse… and Goku has a shit ton of Ki moves, some of which he created himself derived from difficult moves he has mastered. There are also techniques like Ultra Instinct and Kaioken. The only difference is that Garou was literally asleep while Ultra instinct was treated as a martial artist skill… but I’m sure you’ll call this fake martial arts won’t you.
There are many more examples tbh. Let’s see what you think of these first
- 9,176
- 6,585
And IR is a layered skill in DB.
We have said this time and time again.
I just found Goku instinctively reacting to Beerus via your logic.
<<<<<<Master Roshi in tournament of power <<<<<<<Beerus’ Ultra instinct <<<<< Goku’s Ultra instinct <<<<<< several improvement of a mastered UI technique.
If I were you dropping this your IR point would make Garou have a better chance in this.
- 10,632
- 9,322
What's with the usage of so many <<<< ???
If I do the same thing, I get this lmao.
Human Garou Instinctive Reaction <<<<<<< Half-Monster Garou (Post-Darkshine) Instinctive Reaction <<<<<< Half-Monster Garou (Post-Centipede) Insctinive Reaction <<<<<< Monster Garou Instinctive Reaction <<<<<<< Awakened Garou Instinctive Reaction
- 15,963
- 25,007
Is<<<<<<<<<<<this<<<<<<<the meta<<<<<<<now<<<<?
- 9,176
- 6,585
- 10,632
- 9,322
I'm not really sure what the deal with it is. I can just slap a few "<<<" on something for no reason and it's apparently more of a feat I guess?
- 10,632
- 9,322
You have to be trolling
I hope you are cause that genuinely made me laugh, bro.
- 9,176
- 6,585
Ngl I laughed too.
Goku improved his UI several times in each Arc after ToP
Goku improved his UI several times in each Arc after ToP
- 15,963
- 25,007
Forgot the <<<<<<<<
- 12,231
- 11,246
I'm gonna unwatch this thread. I thought it was gonna be fun, but it's a freakin' headache.
I skillstomp them both because I'm actually real.
- 9,176
- 6,585
- 12,231
- 11,246
- 10,632
- 9,322
Garou has improved his instincts many times throughout the series as well.
As Human Garou, he is capable of instinctively reacting through the flow of Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist, which he had yet to even full master yet.
When he fights against Darkshine, he is first asleep while fighting him, showing his instincts have improved substantially. However, he is albeit unable to get very far before getting woken up.
However, during the fight he actually masters WSRSF and WWICF which improve his instincts even further, to the point that Darkshine can't hit him at all.
Afterward, he gets knocked out cold again and evolves. He then goes and fights Bang and Bomb while asleep, but unlike with Darkshine, he is able to not only keep up but exceed them in martial arts while still unconscious. So his Instinctive Reactions have evolved yet again.
After that, he copies attacks in his sleep, and he continues to evolve in skill while unconscious.
- 24,080
- 24,756
Moved to VS threads
- 9,176
- 6,585
Ultra instinct Omen 1 <<<< Ultra instinct Omen 2 <<<<< UIO 3 <<<<< Mastered UI <<<<< UIO after training with Merus <<<<< Mastered UI after training with Merus <<<<< Base mode MUI <<<< Super sayian MUI <<< SSJ 2 MUI <<<< SSJ3 MUI <<<< SSG MUI <<<< SSGSS MUI <<<<< strongest MUI (kept up with granola) <<<< MUI (kept up with Gas)
thanks to Sayian’s physiology to constantly hone their skills and strength.
- 9,176
- 6,585
IM SORRY WHAT????
- Status
