Goku vs. Garou (Martial Arts Battle)

[Phoenks]

Goku has better analytical prediction feats tho, since he was able to more or less keep up with a time stopper before eventually getting the resist. He can also deal with teleportation users. (And both characters here were actual martial artist somewhat comparable to him. )
Meanwhile Garou can dodge and land counters on Saitama who is too fast for his perception and reactions, but an amateur. (The whole talk about reading breathing energy, muscle contraction, line of sight, posture and center of balance, however, sounds really cool.)

Garou has better feats of literally everything.

Copying? Awakened Garou literally looks at you once and knows how to perform your technique and mimic its POWER. On top of this, he continues to passively evolve it past the original state of the skill, to perfection.

Analytical Prediction? Garou can predict Saitama, who speed blitzes him to hell and back in an instant and dodge/counter barrages of his attacks with ease. Referring to him as an amateur as you said.

Instinctive Reactions? Garou literally had MUI back when he fought Darkshine. And now he can literally stomp Bang who was using both his conscious and unconscious martial arts mastery to fight him, WHILE he was asleep.

Actual application of skill? Goku spams the same punch over and over again while Garou's techniques are all different, fluid, and accurate to real-world martial arts techniques while being beyond them at the same time.

 

[Kachon123]

Master Roshi has IR

Not on his page.

And his was stated to be below Ultra Instinct

When?

You just have to understand that there are levels not even the gods can reach. gods that have been training under Martial Arts from their angels for millions of years.

That's just an anti-feat for the gods then. They weren't able to achieve instinctive reaction- something that human Garou was able to do flawlessly with no drawbacks.

And Roshi’s IR was seen as mid despite his feat.

When?

@Maverick_Zero_X you can have all the knowledge in the world, but will be shit without evidence of application. So far he is just spamming cosmic radiation and has probably reached his knowledge cap by using a gamma burst attack the greatest and most dangerous form of radiation. So that’s literally it. Nuclear Fist and Gamma burst.

You're clearly failing to read the chapter, just like Mr. Kamenriderblaze. The essence of his Martial Art style is to copy and master anything he has knowledge about it's flow of energy on instantly. This was shown many times in the series. Copying and mastering WDM's style, copying and mastering TTM's style, copying Bomb's style, copying and mastering all 11 martial art styles he glanced at, copying and mastering Saitama's strength and speed that once blitzed him, copying a Gamma ray burst, copying nuclear fission.

Goku at best has only learned and mastered a handful of techniques as fast as Garou did: Ultra Instinct, Instant Transmission, Kamehameha, Kaio-Ken, ect.

Garou can’t touch Goku yet

Still yet to bring up a feat surpassing anything Garou has shown. Your main argument is Ultra Instinct, which is literally just instinctive reaction that martial artists inferior to human Garou couldn't achieve.

 

[Dalesean027]

Garou has better feats of literally everything.

Copying? Awakened Garou literally looks at you once and knows how to perform your technique and mimic its POWER. On top of this, he continues to evolve it past the original state of the skill, to perfection.

Analytical Prediction? Garou can predict Saitama, who speed blitzes him to hell and back in an instant and dodge/counter barrages of his attacks with ease. Referring to him as an amateur as you said.

Instinctive Reactions? Garou literally had MUI back when he fought Darkshine. And now he can literally stomp Bang who was using both his conscious and unconscious martial arts mastery to fight him, WHILE he was asleep.

Actual application of skill? Goku spams the same punch over and over again while Garou's techniques are all different, fluid, and accurate to real-world martial arts techniques while being beyond them at the same time.

Lots of false equivalence

With this being one of the most egregious

Analytical Prediction? Garou can predict Saitama, who speed blitzes him to hell and back in an instant and dodge/counter barrages of his attacks with ease. Referring to him as an amateur as you said.

Predicting and reacting to getting blitzed by regular fast speed and predicting someone who can attack you by skipping though time are on two entirely seperate levels

 

[Kachon123]

So i don't see how any of that translate to fuse with the universe ?

Phoenks never said that Garou fused with the universe. They said that Garou fused with the energies and flow of the universe, which he did.

 

[Kachon123]

Garou's techniques are all different, fluid, and accurate to real-world martial arts techniques while being beyond them at the same time.

It's also free-flowing, ever changing, and ever evolving.

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

Phoenks never said that Garou fused with the universe. They said that Garou fused with the energies and flow of the universe, which he did.

Well the
I retake the statement

But i don't see how this translate to fuse with all energy in the universe

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

When?

Dragon ball super manga chap 39 where master roshi is consider to be dirt weak was able to douge other who are far faster then him which include the like of Jiren

Though jiren later beat him

 

[Phoenks]

Predicting and reacting to getting blitzed by regular fast speed and predicting someone who can attack you by skipping though time are on two entirely seperate levels

You guys do realize that Goku is just predicting where he'll be in 0.1 seconds right? It's not that impressive at all.

Garou on the other hand is predicting far faster than that against opponents like Saitama. Who is so much faster than him he may as well be skipping through time.

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

You guys do realize that Goku is just predicting where he'll be in 0.1 seconds right? It's not that impressive at all.

You do realislze that 0.1 seconds is a pretty long time for those that are MFTL+ right ?

 

[Dalesean027]

You guys do realize that Goku is just predicting where he'll be in 0.1 seconds right? It's not that impressive at all.

.1 seconds in massively ftl speeds...

 

[Phoenks]

.1 seconds in massively ftl speeds...

Dude that is literally even less impressive. That means Goku has time to make an absolutely absurd amount of predictions in his head before the 0.1s passes.

You guys continue to disprove and dismantle your own skill feats.

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

Dude that is literally even less impressive. That means Goku has time to make an absolutely absurd amount of predictions in his head before the 0.1s passes.

You guys continue to disprove and dismantle your own skill feats.

You do realize that Hit is also MFTL+ speed right

 

[Dalesean027]

Dude that is literally even less impressive. That means Goku has time to make an absolutely absurd amount of predictions in his head before the 0.1s passes.

You guys continue to disprove and dismantle your own skill feats.

My guy we literally proved earlier in narrative the stances hit takes leave literally no room to even remotely know how he'll move or attack I honestly don't get the willfull ignorance when it comes to ignoring earlier scans lol

 

[Epiccheev]

And to think this thread was going so well at the start, lol.

 

[Dalesean027]

And to think this thread was going so well at the start, lol.

Fr lol I enjoyed just being a reader at that point but this is hilariously just a slugfest of back to backs now

 

[Phoenks]

My guy we literally proved earlier in narrative the stances hit takes leave literally no room to even remotely know how he'll move or attack I honestly don't get the willfull ignorance when it comes to ignoring earlier scans lol

But Goku predicts it so your first statement doesn't make sense lmao. Obviously it leaves room to predict if Goku can predict it constantly.

"Willful ignorance" buddy, you guys are the ones blatantly exaggerating your feats.

 

[Kachon123]

But i don't see how this translate to fuse with all energy in the universe

Reread the damn chapter. I can't tell if you're actually illiterate or are just acting ignorant for the purpose of your flawed argument. Garou was stated to be able to recreate anything that he understands the flow of energy about in his body. He then was stated to understand all flows of energy and all energy in the universe.

Connect the dots. Garou recreating anything anything he knows about perfectly in his body -> Understands all energies in the universe -> ???

Dragon ball super manga chap 39 where master roshi is consider to be dirt weak was able to douge other who are far faster then him which include the like of Jiren

dodge*

So would that not just mean that Jiren was not trying against Roshi?

Roshi dodges Jiren -> Jiren proceeds to body him. How does that mean to you anything other than Jiren wasn't trying very hard against Roshi initially?

Literally in the chapter, Whis explains UI as the textbook definition of Instinctive Reaction:

Even when you look at the wiki's page of Instinctive Reaction, UI Goku is the first thing that shows.

Instinctive Reaction definition:

Instinctive Reaction is the ability to react to oncoming attacks without the need for conscious thought. As such, those with this ability will automatically dodge and possibly counter oncoming attacks through muscle memory or instinct. As a result, the user is free to utilize the mental effort that is normally spent on performing these movements on other things.

vs

Ultra Instinct definition:

Don't allow your mind to control your movement. Every part of your body must judge and act on its own

Literally the same thing.

 

[Spinoirr]

IR isn't even on Master Roshi's profile lmao. Everyone in DB who is stated to have IR usually has an incomplete or limited version of it. Except those with UI..

That's because his profile uses the super anime And not the manga roshi

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

My guy we literally proved earlier in narrative the stances hit takes leave literally no room to even remotely know how he'll move or attack I honestly don't get the willfull ignorance when it comes to ignoring earlier scans lol

I think he kinda forgot that it is only 0.1 second Time stop for Hit who is MFTL+ not Goku

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Dude that is literally even less impressive. That means Goku has time to make an absolutely absurd amount of predictions in his head before the 0.1s passes.

You guys continue to disprove and dismantle your own skill feats.

Goku has 0.1 second to predict what a mftl+ 1000 years old skilled assassin that uses a stance that conceals his movement whilst assasin is using time skip/stop is somehow better than garou predicting what a non martial artist is going to do?

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

Reread the damn chapter. I can't tell if you're actually illiterate or are just acting ignorant for the purpose of your flawed argument. Garou was stated to be able to recreate anything that he understands the flow of energy about in his body. He then was stated to understand all flows of energy and all energy in the universe.

Connect the dots. Garou recreating anything anything he knows about perfectly in his body -> Understands all energies in the universe -> ???

And how does recreating the energy flow in the body translate to fuse with the energy ?

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Also wasn't hit blizting SSB vegeta while base goku was keeping up with him [to an extent] via predicting? Sounds even more better than garou's feat.

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

dodge*

So would that not just mean that Jiren was not trying against Roshi?

Roshi dodges Jiren -> Jiren proceeds to body him. How does that mean to you anything other than Jiren wasn't trying very hard against Roshi initially?

The same could be said to saitama who in the manga never go all out vs Garou
You do realize that there are other being who are far weaker then jiren but still consider roshi dirt level right ? But try extremely hard and fail

 

[Phoenks]

Goku has 0.1 second to predict what a mftl+ 1000 years old skilled assassin that uses a stance that conceals his movement whilst assasin is using time skip/stop is somehow better than garou predicting what a non martial artist is going to do?

Goku is the same speed as the person he is predicting. He even gets 0.1 seconds to figure it out.

Garou was predicting someone with the ability to blitz him to hell and back with ease.

 

[Epiccheev]

Fr lol I enjoyed just being a reader at that point but this is hilariously just a slugfest of back to backs now

It went from Goku has better general skill feats, but Garou evens it with fancier martial arts and dura neg to " Garou simply cannot ever touch Goku" "NO! Goku cannot ever touch Garou!"

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

Goku is the same speed as the person he is predicting. He even gets 0.1 seconds to figure it out.

Garou was predicting someone with the ability to blitz him to hell and back with ease.

You do realize when time stop 0.1 second is for hit right ? While it happen in an instant for goku

 

[Phoenks]

It went from Goku has better general skill feats, but Garou evens it with fancier martial arts and dura neg to " Garou simply cannot ever touch Goku" "NO! Goku cannot ever touch Garou!"

If they were to fight, Awakened Garou would look at him one time and go "Mode: Goku" and obliterate him with better versions of Goku's techniques + his own techniques on top of it (Which are already better than his)

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Goku is the same speed as the person he is predicting. He even gets 0.1 seconds to figure it out.

Garou was predicting someone with the ability to blitz him to hell and back with ease.

Goku was predicting someone whocan blitz and one shot SSB vegeta. And the difference in speed betwen ssbe vegeta and base goku is higher than garou and saitma.

 

[Phoenks]

You do realize when time stop 0.1 second is for hit right ? While it happen in an instant for goku

All he is doing is predicting where he will be in the next 0.1 seconds... Bro.

 

[Kachon123]

The same could be said to saitama who in the manga never go all out vs Garou
You do realize that there are other being who are far weaker then jiren but still consider roshi dirt level right ? But try extremely hard and fail

The difference is that Roshi's IR was too shallow, and he was caught with ease.

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

All he is doing is predicting where he will be in the next 0.1 seconds... Bro.

I think you misunderstanding how the time stop work while it happen 0.1 second For Hit

It happen in an instant for Goku

 

[TheGreatBanana]

All he is doing is predicting where he will be in the next 0.1 seconds... Bro.

And all garou is doing is guessing what an amatour would do...bro

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

The difference is that Roshi's IR was too shallow, and he was caught with ease.

Yeah jiren who is martial artist while Saitama don't know any martial artist

 

[Phoenks]

I think you misunderstanding how the time stop work while it happen 0.1 second For Hit

It happen in an instant for Goku

. . . .

Yes, so all Goku has to do is account for the 0.1 seconds of "stopped time" when he makes his predictions. It's not as impressive as you guys are thinking it is.

 

[Phoenks]

And all garou is doing is guessing what an amatour would do...bro

An amateur whose attacks he can't even perceive. He is predicting movements that haven't happened yet, which he can't even see because they're too fast.

 

[Kachon123]

No one has countered this.

Still yet to bring up a feat surpassing anything Garou has shown. Your main argument is Ultra Instinct, which is literally just instinctive reaction that martial artists inferior to human Garou couldn't achieve.

 

[Phoenks]

No one has countered this.

They have nothing to counter anything said.

DBS feats are just a bunch of scaling chains that serve as anti-feats for every "martial artist" in the series lmao.

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

. . . .

Yes, so all Goku has to do is account for the 0.1 seconds of "stopped time" when he makes his predictions. It's not as impressive as you guys are thinking it is.

Yeah i am pretty sure you don't even know how hit so called time skip work
Because it doesn't really skip time.
It stop it for hit but only 0.1 second .
Goku was able to predict what Hit who is MFTL+ will do within that 0.1 second time stop of hit

 

[TheGreatBanana]

. . . .

Yes, so all Goku has to do is account for the 0.1 seconds of "stopped time" when he makes his predictions. It's not as impressive as you guys are thinking it is.

It is actually more.
Garou's version: predecting what an a absolute amateur is going to do via line of sight, posture and gravity center etc...that happnes to be faster
Goku's version: predecting a martail artist with 1000+ years exprience, with his own analytical predicting based on nothing...that also happned to be much faster and has time skip/stop in jnder 0.1
And somehow garou's...better? Or even comparable?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Waiting for some DB fan to ratio all the arguments in favor of Garou with a 2000-character comment