- 192
- 79
Yes Saiyan physiology shouldn't be ignored. Let's not forget that Garou's rapid growth in this monster association arc is due to the effects of monsterification
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Goku vs. Garou (Martial Arts Battle)
- Thread starter Kin201
- Start date
- Status
- 9,387
- 6,686
Looks at the Granola arc…
let me use “<<<“ to roughly explain
Goku and Vegeta <<< Granola clone <<< Goku and Vegeta <<< Granola <<< Goku and Vegeta <<< Granola Zenkai <<< Goku and Vegeta <<< Gas <<< Goku and Vegeta <<< Gas getting used to his power < Vegeta.
All thanks to Sayian’s ability to improve at an extremely fast rate
- 6,236
- 6,521
Ratio>>>
- 17,279
- 27,078
I'M TEMPTED TO LIKE IT
- 9,387
- 6,686
Do it.. DO IT.
- 17,279
- 27,078
I won't give into thos pressure
- 192
- 79
All what you said is just useless because the only reason Garou can fight while he's unconscious/asleep is due to the monsterification and this is not testament to skill. This is like saying when kid Goku transforms to his giant ap form and unconsciously kills his grandfather Gohan it's a testament to his skill because he was unconscious. Or when kid Naruto rampages as a tailed beast and unconsciously mortally wounds jiraiya at that point in time his conscious state has to be vastly stronger and better and therefore scales above him... This whole unconscious this, unconscious that is being wanked out of proportion when it's due to the monsterification effect and it's not a testament of skill or in away proves his conscious state is vastly stronger.
- 11,416
- 2,550
Yes. It'd be pretty based.
- 2,203
- 1,029
RatioI won't give into thos pressure
- 17,279
- 27,078
- 2,203
- 1,029
Controversy is key
- 2,500
- 1,248
While I disagree with Garou being more skilled than Goku, I think you're using false equivalencies here.
Great Ape Goku and 4 tails Naruto are both massively stronger than grandpa Gohan and base Jiraiya so that's why they damaged them.
Sleeping Garou was weaker than Darkshine when he did all his feats so you can't say that their argument hinges on just being unconscious.
- 85
- 55
Against a brick and brawler like saitama with multiple openings garou tried using skill, power, speed, numbers, etc and even after having undergone multiple transformations he still couldn't beat him.
It took the help of god to allow garou to compete against saitama power wise. And instead of using any skills or techniques he copied saitama's normal consecutive punches then used an energy blast.
And against darkshine who's also like saitama garou was evolving through his monsterization. And the power increase helped him in beating darkshine. Goku in his base form after being unconscious was able to tap into something like ui. Which even in its omen form is better than garou's instinctive reaction. And goku's limit breaking is beyond garou's and unlike garou who was only able to do that by becoming a monster it's innate to goku.
As a saiyan goku's able to become stronger and evolve through breaking his limits. He's also capable of getting rage boosts which further increases his power and with ui it's not just instinctive reaction it was also stated that each attack becomes sharper and more efficient over time.
And in the moro arc it was stated to be fine tuning. Goku's also able to automatically make his body as sturdier as necessary, his body becomes tougher to compensate on its own, he's able to protect his vitals and shift them out of harms way.
It also gives goku a speed boost because if it didn't he wouldn't have been able to keep up with ssj vegeta in his base form. Then with hit he was skipping in time, while using a stance where he couldn't be read. Hit was also stronger than base goku who was still able to tag him, react to him, block his hits, and predict where he would be.
This is without ui. You also have goku being able to match beerus at the same speed and angle to cancel out his attacks. Garou has more flashy moves and techniques but when it comes to skills, adaptability, limit breaking and instinctive reaction goku beats garou.
It took the help of god to allow garou to compete against saitama power wise. And instead of using any skills or techniques he copied saitama's normal consecutive punches then used an energy blast.
And against darkshine who's also like saitama garou was evolving through his monsterization. And the power increase helped him in beating darkshine. Goku in his base form after being unconscious was able to tap into something like ui. Which even in its omen form is better than garou's instinctive reaction. And goku's limit breaking is beyond garou's and unlike garou who was only able to do that by becoming a monster it's innate to goku.
As a saiyan goku's able to become stronger and evolve through breaking his limits. He's also capable of getting rage boosts which further increases his power and with ui it's not just instinctive reaction it was also stated that each attack becomes sharper and more efficient over time.
And in the moro arc it was stated to be fine tuning. Goku's also able to automatically make his body as sturdier as necessary, his body becomes tougher to compensate on its own, he's able to protect his vitals and shift them out of harms way.
It also gives goku a speed boost because if it didn't he wouldn't have been able to keep up with ssj vegeta in his base form. Then with hit he was skipping in time, while using a stance where he couldn't be read. Hit was also stronger than base goku who was still able to tag him, react to him, block his hits, and predict where he would be.
This is without ui. You also have goku being able to match beerus at the same speed and angle to cancel out his attacks. Garou has more flashy moves and techniques but when it comes to skills, adaptability, limit breaking and instinctive reaction goku beats garou.
- 2,592
- 1,486
Bro, you're talking about Saitama, the strongest character of OPM which was lterally immune to anything Garou threw at him. If he copied his consecutive normal punches was because that was the only way to match him in AP and speed, Garou himself admited that, after he copied Saitama, that plus his technique will be enough to beat him, so Garou wasn't just "Martial arts doesn't work, let's copy normal punches that doesn't use martial arts and try it!"
With Darkshine, it happens the same. Darkshine was so durable Garou couldn't wish to damage him, that's why he needed to increase his AP and speed to fight and defeat him, because he needs that to even try to match the character.
To put you a comparison, is like if I put Goku against Zen'oh, where Goku can't even wish to damage him, and I call it an anti-feat of Goku's martial arts because Zen'oh doesn't know how to fight yet he was stomping Goku. It doesn't work like that, Martial Arts can help you to win battles even if there is a difference on stats, but if the difference is too big you can't even wish to put a scratch on your enemies' body
Won't argue against the rest because I don't want to get inside this argument, I just wanted to clarify that
- 85
- 55
People like cell, goku black, 73 moro, hit, ssj 2 caulifa, jiren, gas and granola are people that goku fought who were at one point either stronger than him, as skilled or both. Some of them had hax. Yet against those people goku used his skills and techniques to hold his own. Without any outside help. Goku was still recovering while he was fighting ssj 2 caulifa in his base form then he later fought caulifa and kale while still recovering. Even against kefla he was still recovering while fighting her I think.
Garou needed to become a monster and had to further transform to eventually overcome someone like darkshine. And against saitama he needed a power amp from god. And he used no skills against someone like saitama. Just power. I'm just saying goku has more instances of using his skills against non brutes and bricks who also had other advantages over him yet unlike garou he didn't need to evolve through some mutation process and receive an outside power up to hold his own.
Garou needed to do that against people like saitama and darkshine. Garou had to become a monster. And needed an outside power up to fight people who aren't on the caliber of the people goku fought. When it comes to experience, h2h etc. and who goku held his own against while being at disadvantages by using his skills and techniques. And natural adaption and evolution.
- 2,592
- 1,486
You are acting like if Garou didn't hold his own against Saitama nor Darkshine. Considering the difference between both, he did, he did pretty well.
At the start of the match against Darkshine, Garou couldn't even match his strength, and Darkshine is a stonewall: his durability is so great not even himself can scratch his own body. How will Garou overcome such difference if he couldn't even wish to damage him?
The same happens with Saitama: he was using Martial Arts and technique to beat him, Saitama himself asked why he couldn't punch him. But the fight continued, and Saitama was so strong in comparison Garou reached the conclusion his Martial Arts couldn't defeat him (as seen in chapter 164 in the webcomic-like crossed dialogue bubbles)
Because (as explained before), Garou couldn't even wish to damage Darkshine. He did try martial arts: used afterimages while unconscious (yet Darkshine didn't fall on the trick) and reflected his attacks, until Darkshine used an attack so strong for Garou he couldn't deflect it, an "instant death attack".
Then Garou started overcoming the difference, he wasn't stronger than Darkshine, nor was able to damage his body, but was strong enough to being able to deflect his attacks, and then, his martial arts worked and he skillstomped Darkshine.
You are acting like if Garou's passive Reactive power level is a counterargument to his martial arts, which it isn't
Because Saitama is god of the Verse? Again: the point of Garou vs Saitama fight was to put it clear that Saitama is so strong martial arts doesn't work on him
False. He did use it, literally on all his fight previous to God amp to make Saitama' punch fail, try to destroy his organs, but nothing worked, Saitama was immune to all, and was able to overwhelm Garou by pure speed. And even after (ye, somewhat using the flow of universe to cause nuclear fission/NBR is martial arts in OPM). He used a martial art technique to copy Saitama's strength, and admited that both being comparable added to his martial arts will be enough to beat him.
Uhm, well... he needed to increase his power against Caulifla and Kale to match them (from base to ssj, from ssj to ssg), the same with Kefla (from ssgss to ssgsskk, from ssgsskk to MUI) and Granolah (from ssgss to MUI. And ye, ssgss also has instinctive reactions), and Moroh (Moroh couldn't even scratch Goku's body while he was in MUI, and after Moroh absorbed Meru power he was defeated because Goku grew strong enough to overwhelm him and then being able to destroy the gem on his face), Cell (lost because of power. Gohan was losing, yet he increased his power and then defeated him), etc.
Goku is never winning his fights with pure martial arts and a big AP disadvantage (at least not as common as you want to put it). The Best he did is use them to rest and then increase his power so he can match his enemy (as seen when he used his martial arts in base against Caulifla, transformed into ssj and then started to match her)
And that's just repeat everything I've said so far
Last edited:
- 9,387
- 6,686
Saitama still doesn’t want to hurt the dude.
- 85
- 55
Darkshine and saitama are both brutes and bricks with no martial arts experience or understanding of it. And in saitama's case he was said to be full of openings. Saitama is also holding back. You compare garou's fight against darkshine to base goku's fight with ssj 2 caulifa and off of that you can tell who's the better martial artist.
There was also his fights with goku black, cell, beerus, hit etc. While garou lost against his own fighting style being used against him. He also lost to watchdog man. Was only able to compete against ps and flashy flash due to the amps he got from becoming more of a monster.
He was also able to beat darkshine with the added help of an amp. And off of the feats base goku showed against hit, garou doesn't have a comparable or better analytical feat than that.
Garou had to adjust his eyes to see in the dark while goku in complete darkness was able to tell where someone was by sensing vibrations in the air. Garou has nothing on ui either. Just because garou has more techniques and they're flashy doesn't mean he's a better martial artist.
If anything it just means he has more variety. As a human garou's only won fights against scrubs who were just brutes and brawlers with no martial arts experience. He lost to watchdog man as a human.
He had trouble with a badly injured metal bat who blocked one of his techniques and against the same technique ran through it.
Using his martial arts as a human he beat no one of note and had trouble with ttm, ran away from watchdog man, and had trouble with mb.
Compare human garou's fight against mb to base goku fighting hit and that's another example of why goku's a better martial artist. Even as a monster he uses the amps from his forms to help him win his fights or fight on par with someone.
- 2,592
- 1,486
Darkshine is a skilled hand to hand combatant, though. And Saitama has speed high enough to counter the experience difference, at the point he could easily counter 4-armed blows with one hand
Both are basically the same: one character trying to use his fighting experience to counter another character with greater physical stats. In both cases, the character needed to become stronger in order to fight: Garou grew stronger and Goku transformed into ssj2
Because at that point Garou was an amateur on the fighting style, he also was severaly weakened by poison and damage.
Watchdog man is a skilled h2h combatant, and Garou lost because he didn't have a martial art to fight a canine style. After that fight he copied Watchdog Man's fighting style, and that was previous he mastered all his styles combining them into a far greater martial art style
Both of which are skilled martial artists, also he didn't beat them just because he amped, he was mastering his martial arts along that fight, growing stronger as much as perfectioning his martial art
Other members already said such feat is not as good as people want it to be. Goku predicted the actions Hit'll have on 0.1s of time stop, meanwhile, Garou can read most of the following moves people will do consecutively
Why are you using human Garou as an anti-feat of this Garou, which is severaly more skilled?
Again: as a human. And Watchdog Man is also a skilled people, idk why you use him like if he was dumb
Again: AP difference
False, he stomped TTM with his martial arts
Because Watchdog Man was more skilled than him and he didn't know yet how to counter a dog style
He literally stomped Metal Bat through all the fight lol, he only had problems because Metal Bat was vastly increasing his strength each hit he took and because he was caught out of guard with the last attaxk
Why do you compare Base Goku to human Garou, like if they must be the equal form of the character? Goku is as skilled in base as he is in MUI, the only difference is instinctive reactions.
Meanwhile, Garou grows more skilled each new form.
Goku also wins by using amps. Cought freezer, cought Goku Black, cought Hit (anime), etc.
Anyway, as I said before, I was just here to say that Garou is not someone whose martial arts only work on non-martial artist people. Are you forgeting when he fought Bang, Bomb (both of which are martial artists with years of experience), TTM, WM, etc.?
- 85
- 55
In terms of skill, adaption and instinctive reaction goku has better feats. Goku has used his skills to hold his own against people with a stat advantage and at times more than that. Garou has to keep adapting/evolving and getting amps mid fight to deal with people most of who weren't martial artist, were just brawlers or people with no real h2h combat skills.
The people garou fought of higher skill weren't that many and against them he needed an amp. And against those people they didn't get any stronger or adapt. Nor did they have any special hax or abilities. With the exception of orochi who beat garou using his own fighting style against him. Meanwhile you have goku who fought against someone like cell and goku black to name a few.
- 16,135
- 12,114
Don't you dare tell me the Zenkais and SSJ forms aren't evolutionary or mutational processes. SSJ is literally determined by the presence of specific cells within the body.
Also:
-Cell: Goku lost, Cell wasn't at full power.
-Black: didn't really win tbh, unless you count the time he beat the weaker version.
-Moro: Prep time, Moro underestimated him, and Goku had help.
-Hit: He had time to analyze before the match even started, and had far more power with the Kaio-Ken.
-SSJ2 Caulifla: She wasn't particularly skilful, having just discovered the form.
-Jiren: Goku had a lot of help, and it still ended in a tie.
-Gas: Goku had Vegeta's help, and he kinda just ended up running away. He also nearly died.
-Granolah: He was facing a weaker clone.
- 8,857
- 5,697
This is stupid.
Cell literally praised Goku's skills and was impressed with him even stating he could win with a senzu. cell won because he was massively held back and still more powerful.
Goku shat on black the moment there wasn't a whole SSJ gap in strength between them. Shit look at what vegeta did.
Goku fought MUI moro one on one, no prep, was stated to be the more honed fighter, and won. Moro is a being with absorbtion hax, angel hax, regeneration, immortality and other bullshit.
This one is laughable. Goku went into the fight not knowing what to expect from hit's abilities, yet proceeded to read and predict all his moves IN BASE and then SSJ before actually fighting him in blue. The fact that Goku read all his moves while hit was barely moving and using a stance that made it so his moves can't be read is a skill feat and you're downplaying it.
A form being new has nothing to do with combat skill. Caulifula is one of the most skilled fightera in all of universe 6 and she had the AP advantage.
Jiren was literally unscathed by the time of their final 1v1 and Goku literally won.
Oh shut up, he had a whole chapter outplaying gas in every move while in a severe AP and speed disadvantage.
A clone that was literally stronger than him.
- 85
- 55
Garou went from being human to turning into a monster and kept further becoming one. He uses the amps he's gotten from his monster forms in conjunction with his techniques that also becomes stronger due to his monsterization amps. Goku being able to improve, adapt and become stronger and transform is innate. Garou wasn't able to do most of what he does as a monster and with his amps as a human.
Cell had the dna of not only goku but of others as well and goku was still able to hold his own against him.
Black copied goku's fighting style. And was someone who got stronger as he took damage. Goku still held his own against him. Moro not only absorbed some powers of an angel but also had ui. He even said they were on the same level. Goku still beat him.
Base goku reacted to hit who had just got finished beating ssb vegeta. Hit also was skipping through time and increased his time skip and before goku finally transformed he was still able to react, block, counter and anticipate where hit would be.
Ssj 2 caulifa wasn't only stronger but was also improving through her fight with base goku and he was still outclassing her with his skill for a time.
Against jiren goku tapped into ui a technique that the gods knows about but can't utilize with the exception of beerus, that the angels use, and that the gp uses and he was able to tap into it while unconscious which allowed him to overcome the difference in power against jiren in his initial omen form and while using ui his attacks became sharper etc.
Ssb goku was able to hold his own against gas by using his skills and ui which is a technique. Same with granola. Goku was able to read granola's vital attacks and due to ui being further improved he was able to shift his vitals out of harms way. Ui also allowed to react and evade attacks from both granola and gas while in his ssb form. And the thing with ui is that goku had said that he was still having a lot of trouble with it and that he was unable to keep his heart calm.
It was also said that he didn't have faith in himself. Which means all of the instances with ui were done by a goku who didn't even have a good grasp on it. Whis also hinted at goku being able to create his own unique version of ui.
- 8,857
- 5,697
I'm pretty sure garou's monsterization is due to him limit breaking as a result of his constant unreal abuse to his body. Like saitama.
- 9,387
- 6,686
Goku wins with MUI which is a massively layered instinctive reaction technique. Coupled with his prediction and accurate analysis of fighting style based on stances. Even when he has never seen it before. Goku can create entirely new fighting styles to counter or be better at replicating Garou’s fighting style.
Garou copying and power mimicry is insane, but not insane enough to copy MUI since he doesn’t have God Ki and MUI is ridiculously layered and that would be a cold hard case of No Limit Fallacy. it is very hard to tell who the better copy cat is, but if Ki is considered in any of this, Goku will destroy Garou in that regard. Because he copied, mastered and invented new moves that were never thought possible with the Kamehameha after just seeing it ONCE, compared to his master, Martial Artists arguably relative if not better than Bang and Bomb combined, who trained 50 years to master it. he has created moves of his own, he has even copied a God of Destruction’s Ki by only seeing Beerus use it ONCE. Learned the Drunken Fist, After image technique, 8 Arm fist, etc with a GLANCE. Ki techniques. I don’t even want to get into Ki techniques that much
.
The only edge Garou has might be his copy, probably because he spams that shit a lot it. Copying a literal face? Lol. Goku has other ways to deal with his enemies. Goku’s copying feat died down after he had gained all the experience he needed to fight on his own. Like assessing fighting abilities and adapting to them. Creating new ways of fighting to counter difficult opponents.
This is how I think the fight would be
if this is a hand to hand combat only. Cosmic Garou will copy most of Goku’s hand to hand skills and improve on them. Sayians have the power to hone their skills during battle. They both improve at a very fast rate, if I were to give my opinion on who is faster, I’ll say Garou. Cosmic Garou could edge Goku. Only cuz of tournament rules, stat amps won’t work, etc. Goku will resort to his ultimate move, Ultra Instinct.
With Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku’s skill level rises to the absolute maximum, enabling him to dodge attacks in base that a super sayian Vegeta couldn’t. A technique literal Gods train millions of years for and still couldn’t attain. Every second Goku wields Ultra Instinct, his skills continue to improve. Shown against Moro who also copied UI and had all his other haxes, Shown in Granola arc against granola and Gas, Shown in Tournament of power. The better hand to hand fighter… is MUI Goku low diff. Garou’s copying could go either way, but If I had a gun to my head I’d choose Garou high diff cuz idek if he can copy Ki or keep up with Goku pulling out techniques left right and center. Maybe Goku wins without MUI. I would leave that up to @FluffyCreatureZ @JOLTxx @Scython
I vote MUI Goku.
goodluck guys
Garou copying and power mimicry is insane, but not insane enough to copy MUI since he doesn’t have God Ki and MUI is ridiculously layered and that would be a cold hard case of No Limit Fallacy. it is very hard to tell who the better copy cat is, but if Ki is considered in any of this, Goku will destroy Garou in that regard. Because he copied, mastered and invented new moves that were never thought possible with the Kamehameha after just seeing it ONCE, compared to his master, Martial Artists arguably relative if not better than Bang and Bomb combined, who trained 50 years to master it. he has created moves of his own, he has even copied a God of Destruction’s Ki by only seeing Beerus use it ONCE. Learned the Drunken Fist, After image technique, 8 Arm fist, etc with a GLANCE. Ki techniques. I don’t even want to get into Ki techniques that much
.The only edge Garou has might be his copy, probably because he spams that shit a lot it. Copying a literal face? Lol. Goku has other ways to deal with his enemies. Goku’s copying feat died down after he had gained all the experience he needed to fight on his own. Like assessing fighting abilities and adapting to them. Creating new ways of fighting to counter difficult opponents.
This is how I think the fight would be
if this is a hand to hand combat only. Cosmic Garou will copy most of Goku’s hand to hand skills and improve on them. Sayians have the power to hone their skills during battle. They both improve at a very fast rate, if I were to give my opinion on who is faster, I’ll say Garou. Cosmic Garou could edge Goku. Only cuz of tournament rules, stat amps won’t work, etc. Goku will resort to his ultimate move, Ultra Instinct.
With Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku’s skill level rises to the absolute maximum, enabling him to dodge attacks in base that a super sayian Vegeta couldn’t. A technique literal Gods train millions of years for and still couldn’t attain. Every second Goku wields Ultra Instinct, his skills continue to improve. Shown against Moro who also copied UI and had all his other haxes, Shown in Granola arc against granola and Gas, Shown in Tournament of power. The better hand to hand fighter… is MUI Goku low diff. Garou’s copying could go either way, but If I had a gun to my head I’d choose Garou high diff cuz idek if he can copy Ki or keep up with Goku pulling out techniques left right and center. Maybe Goku wins without MUI. I would leave that up to @FluffyCreatureZ @JOLTxx @Scython
I vote MUI Goku.
goodluck guys
- 8,857
- 5,697
I'm pretty sure garou copying saitama's face is only metaphorical not literal.Goku wins with MUI which is a massively layered instinctive reaction technique. Coupled with his prediction and accurate analysis of fighting style based on stances. Even when he has never seen it before. Goku can create entirely new fighting styles to counter or be better at replicating Garou’s fighting style.
Garou copying and power mimicry is insane, but not insane enough to copy MUI since he doesn’t have God Ki and MUI is ridiculously layered and that would be a cold hard case of No Limit Fallacy. it is very hard to tell who the better copy cat is, but if Ki is considered in any of this, Goku will destroy Garou in that regard. Because he copied, mastered and invented new moves that were never thought possible with the Kamehameha after just seeing it ONCE, compared to his master, Martial Artists arguably relative if not better than Bang and Bomb combined, who trained 50 years to master it. he has created moves of his own, he has even copied a God of Destruction’s Ki by only seeing Beerus use it ONCE. Learned the Drunken Fist, After image technique, 8 Arm fist, etc with a GLANCE. Ki techniques. I don’t even want to get into Ki techniques that much
The only edge Garou has might be his copy, probably because he spams that shit a lot it. Copying a literal face? Lol. Goku has other ways to deal with his enemies. Goku’s copying feat died down after he had gained all the experience he needed to fight on his own. Like assessing fighting abilities and adapting to them. Creating new ways of fighting to counter difficult opponents.
This is how I think the fight would be
if this is a hand to hand combat only. Cosmic Garou will copy most of Goku’s hand to hand skills and improve on them. Sayians have the power to hone their skills during battle. They both improve at a very fast rate, if I were to give my opinion on who is faster, I’ll say Garou. Cosmic Garou could edge Goku. Only cuz of tournament rules, stat amps won’t work, etc. Goku will resort to his ultimate move, Ultra Instinct.
With Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku’s skill level rises to the absolute maximum, enabling him to dodge attacks in base that a super sayian Vegeta couldn’t. A technique literal Gods train millions of years for and still couldn’t attain. Every second Goku wields Ultra Instinct, his skills continue to improve. Shown against Moro who also copied UI and had all his other haxes, Shown in Granola arc against granola and Gas, Shown in Tournament of power. The better hand to hand fighter… is MUI Goku low diff. Garou’s copying could go either way, but If I had a gun to my head I’d choose Garou high diff cuz idek if he can copy Ki or keep up with Goku pulling out techniques left right and center. Maybe Goku wins without MUI. I would leave that up to @FluffyCreatureZ @JOLTxx @Scython
I vote MUI Goku.
goodluck guys
If we're talking about who evolves faster during battle, then I'd have to disagree since Goku's saiyan biology can consistently bridge SSJ gaps in power, and couple that with his UI passively evolving with each strike getting faster stronger and sharper, I think he wins in that regard.
Even without MUI, Goku's UI is still above garou's in SSB. So if your main reason for picking Goku is UI, then Goku wins a lot earlier.
- 9,387
- 6,686
No problem.
RandomGuy2345
He/Him- 24,721
- 15,252
This is exactly why I don't participate in verses with absurd levels of skill like this.
I literally have no clue what y'all mfs be talking about 90% of the time lol
I literally have no clue what y'all mfs be talking about 90% of the time lol
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,251
- 14,623
To be fair, skill is something really subjective, you hardly can objectively qualify it between two characters coming from different verse as they need different skill to deal with the respective threat/opponent in their own verse, while themselves being considered as skill/technique master in their own verse.
- 11,606
- 10,785
So... Uh, I guess you're just denying everything we've said about Garou?
Garou's IR is far above baseline as well, I explained this many posts ago. His Instinctive Reactions constantly evolve throughout the series.
Garou's prediction and analysis are far better and better explained. He uses way more than just "stance" when observing someone (Explained this as well), and uses this to predict many attacks in the future.
Garou's copying capabilities are way, way superior to Goku's. Even if you disagree with everything else, I have no idea how you could disagree with this one. The dude literally glances at you once and can copy your power and technique, and then further improve it beyond its original state until it's perfect. He can copy techniques in his ******* sleep bro, lmao. **** seeing it, he doesn't even need to be conscious, and he masters it instantly.
Creating new fighting styles? Bro c'mon. Garou merged 15 different martial arts into a singular one that's superior to all of them, creating a perfect technique. He does this after thinking for like 5 seconds lol. Fusing techniques together is something Goku has never pulled off.
Everything Goku can do, Garou can do better.
- 7,945
- 8,872
It can be objective if it's something like X character predicts 10 moves in the future Y character predicts a million moves in future.
You can't really objective comparing ki techniques with hax martial arts, both being completely impossible even when you think about a human with absurd senses and superhuman characteristics.
You can't really objective comparing ki techniques with hax martial arts, both being completely impossible even when you think about a human with absurd senses and superhuman characteristics.
- 11,416
- 2,550
Why has this become Twitter...
- 9,387
- 6,686
No I’m not.
Then prove it has evolved past Adult Goku and Master Roshi’s level of IR, besides UI and MUI.
Adult Goku feat before UI: BoG arc, Goku’s body subconsciously predicted that Beerus was going to attack and moved out of the way before Beerus could attack. Goku was confused as to why that happened, Beerus explained to Goku that it was due to his fighting prowess allowing him to react instinctively.
Master Roshi’s feat: performed an instinctive reaction feat greater than Battle of God Goku’s feat with Beerus. Someone Goku has far surpassed is capable of reacting to Jiren who Goku is struggling with. His Instinctive reaction was stated by Whis to be similar, yet a Far Cry from Ultra instinct’s capabilities.
Prove Garou has surpassed those two very impressive feats which are a way below baseline Ultra Instinct.
If you bullshit your way out of this one you still have to prove Garou covers the gap between those two feats and UI. Then prove Garou covers the gaps between Goku improving UI sign over time, then another gap where Goku masters UI, then you will have to keep bullshitting your way past his UI improvement thanks to Goku’s training with Merus in the Moro Arc, BS your way past the UI that decimated Moro, who copied UI and other fighters, Then you have Granola arc where Goku incorporates UI into his Base and improves it further with his transformations. (Granola became the strongest in the universe, He first attacks Goku and Vegeta with a weaker clone that is faster than them, attacks them, attacks them at full strength. Then Gas comes along and becomes the strongest in the universe to surpass Granola’s speed and strength to attack) an improved version of MUI Allowed Goku to keep up with Granola’s clone’s attacks (the clone is stronger and faster than both Goku and Vegeta), Goku improves, beats up the clone gets distracted and gets taken out by a sneak attack. Later on he wakes up and further improves to surpass the clone, and the real deal to match another character named Gas who is faster than Granola.
There is no way you can get Garou above Master Roshi and it’s not even possible to bullshit your way into these layers of UI.
Don’t disappoint me
DivineAura44
He/Him- 5,292
- 3,433
- 9,387
- 6,686
You do know that Goku using less information to make accurate predictions of a time stopping martial artist is better than Garou using more information right?
LMAOOOOO
Sure his copy feats are more cuz he spams it but @FluffyCreatureZ doesnt think so. And Goku has fought and defeated Moro who can and has copied several abilities too (Including UI) so I don’t really care about copy cats rn.
Goku has turned 1 technique into several. (Turned a Kamehameha into like 5/10+ variations including one where he shoots it out of his feet) And he can use 1 technique against another that is considered superior (Goku fought Tien who could create several arms with only an illusion technique where Goku appears to have 8 arms)
Everything Garou can do, Goku can do and COUNTER.
- 8,857
- 5,697
Bro it's like everything I have said until now is just pointless.
Whatever at least I want to see a scan of garou's IR "constantly evolve" throughout the series. Since if we actually use this principal to measure garou's growth then Goku will still have 3x the scaling chain using the same principal.
- Status
