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Saitama VS Goku • (1-1-0)

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You need a difference of three votes for 24 hours for this to conclude
 
Ok, so Saitama has become 58x stronger in what? 3 punches? Now that Saitama can endlessly grow stronger without any finite limit, I'm going with him.

Goku tends to hold back and prolong the fight because he enjoys fighting, so fighting Saitama would not be an exception. If he starts in base and does not go SSJ instantly, even if he does not get killed by Saitama's amp before going SSJ, it would definitely be too late, since at that point Saitama would've a rate of growth high enough to cover distances above what SSJ2 and SSJ3 multipliers are, which iirc are 10x and idk if there is something accepted for ssj3
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Goku tends to hold back and prolong the fight because he enjoys fighting, so fighting Saitama would not be an exception. If he starts in base and does not go SSJ instantly, even if he does not get killed by Saitama's amp before going SSJ, it would definitely be too late, since at that point Saitama would've a rate of growth high enough to cover distances above what SSJ2 and SSJ3 multipliers are, which iirc are 10x and idk if there is something accepted for ssj3
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Goku wouldn’t hold back on a bloodlusted opponent under SBA. He’ll see Saitama as a threat and accommodate for Saitama’s rise in power with his forms quickly. Against 19 and Cell he immediately went SSJ, so I don’t think Saitama would be different since he’s going for the kill. Also SSJ multipliers are odd but I know SSJ1 is 50x for Goku’s speed strength and dura
 
Saitama's rate of growth is exponential, but it's not so fast that an exchange of blows can't happen.

If Goku is able to sense the ridiculous rate of growth and instantly go SSJ3 (like against Buutenks), he can realistically one shot Saitama before he becomes an issue.

It's not guaranteed, but I'll give him a 6/10 for that + the other reasons given.
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
State of mind: In character, but will attempt to win the battle. Characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma.
Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences. The characters will assume their opponents have not been forced into battle. They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law.

When there’s been severe consequences and things on the line Goku has killed his opponents.
Click to expand...
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Where in SBA does it say that? Because I gave it a glaze only says characters will not leave the battle and will try to win, not that they'll go all out ignoring the very character's personality
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Goku is in character and he’s shown not to hold back. SBA makes characters assume there’s dire consequences for losing so he’ll try not to lose
 
Tyranno223 said:
Saitama's rate of growth is exponential, but it's not so fast that an exchange of blows can't happen.
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I mean, against Garou, the "exchange of blows" that happened was literally... 2 blows before Saitama amped himself to 58x stronger.
Tyranno223 said:
If Goku is able to sense the ridiculous rate of growth and instantly go SSJ3 (like against Buutenks), he can realistically one shot Saitama before he becomes an issue..
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Don't know why you mentioned Buutenks, since Buutenks didn't have a power growth like Saitama has right here. There, Goku witnessed from an outsider point of view that Buu became many times stronger and, with time enough to react, decided it was the best to transform into SSJ.

Here, Goku starts in base, an exchange of 2 blows happens, Saitama starts to blitz and becomes 58x stronger. In the time Goku decides to become ssj3 (if he even decides to directly go to it or does not die instantly due to the difference before transforming), Saitama'd be already stronger and punching Goku with no compassion, growing even stronger in the process.

Can't tag the other message, but even against enemies who could cause great damage, Goku still enjoys fights and sees them as fighters. Cell is an example of that, he gave a Senzu beam to him, thinking more of "transforming Gohan into a good fighter" than actually saving the Earth. Hell, he even enjoyed his fight against Buu and wished they could fight again, or spared Frieza despite he killed Krillin and knew he could "destroy the universe" if he was left alone. Even if there is a big threat, Goku's a fighter, and sees enemies as fighters
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Here, Goku starts in base, an exchange of 2 blows happens, Saitama starts to blitz and becomes 58x stronger. In the time Goku decides to become ssj3 (if he even decides to directly go to it or does not die instantly due to the difference before transforming), Saitama'd be already stronger and punching Goku with no compassion, growing even stronger in the process.

Can't tag the other message, but even against enemies who could cause great damage, Goku still enjoys fights and sees them as fighters. Cell is an example of that, he gave a Senzu beam to him, thinking more of "transforming Gohan into a good fighter" than actually saving the Earth. Hell, he even enjoyed his fight against Buu and wished they could fight again, or spared Frieza despite he killed Krillin and knew he could "destroy the universe" if he was left alone. Even if there is a big threat, Goku's a fighter, and sees enemies as fighters
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Goku can sense Saitama’s Ki/power level so he should reasonably amp himself to match and use his combat skill plus techniques to get a quick win like what he tried with the Instant Kamehameha.

That point is a misinterpretation of Goku’s character. He didn’t care more about fighting than saving the Earth. He gave Cell a Senzu Bean so he would get cocky and let Gohan draw out his potential. He miscalculated a bit not accounting for Gohan’s hesitation but he did what he thought was right for everyone and in the end it paid off. Against Buu, Goku gave it his all and killed him with the Spirit Bomb because he knew he was an intergalactic threat. And that is completely not the reason he spared Frieza. He believed by humbling him and beating him at his strongest he could change him into a person and not a monster.

Goku sees enemies trying to harm him or his friends as enemies and acts accordingly. He may derive some fun but when things get serious, so does he. He may not always seem like it because he’s goofy and fun loving, but he’s a truly wise martial arts master.
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
This was Saitama when the growth kicked in; this was Saitama, literally, 2 pages later
Click to expand...
The whole 58× amp is for the entire fight not that he would he would instantly grow by 58× if that was the case the other supporters would have already pointed this out before only

Also saitama has a slight edge above goku in strength so once goku sense that he is stronger than him also that he is growing faster than he would definitely transform to end the fight
 
MintyBoi1 said:
Goku can sense Saitama’s Ki/power level so he should reasonably amp himself to match and use his combat skill plus techniques to get a quick win like what he tried with the Instant Kamehameha.
Click to expand...
You said it yourself, match, not instantly kill. Goku does not instantly kill the enemy, even if he sees them as a threat (Freezer, Fat Majin Buu; didn't kill the first despite he killed Krillin, didn't kill the latter because he wanted the next generation to do something).

You're saying Goku would amp his power instantly to match a growth of a character he doesn't know that can grow that fast, concentrate in the fight, transform and use an instant kamehameha to kill, all at the same time... I'm sorry but I doubt Goku'd even do that.

If Goku notices the growth at the first 2 punches, it is nothing notable, maybe a 10x amp with wank? I think even less. He'd then, at best, go to SSJ since he enjoys to fight, there's no real need to worry (the high growth hasn't started yet) and no reason to go all out. Then, Saitama'd, regardless how, grow up to 58x his initial value. If Goku does not go ssj3 at that very instant, jumping SSJ2 for no reason, the growth would without a doubt be enough to one shot him.

And that's in the hypothetical case he didn't use IT nor ki attacks at that point of the fight. Otherwise, Saitama'd have already mimicked them both.
MintyBoi1 said:
That point is a misinterpretation of Goku’s character. He didn’t care more about fighting than saving the Earth. He gave Cell a Senzu Bean so he would get cocky and let Gohan draw out his potential. He miscalculated a bit not accounting for Gohan’s hesitation but he did what he thought was right for everyone and in the end it paid off.
Click to expand...
So, why assuming that won't be the case against Saitama, who he knows nothing about nor that can grow that fast?
MintyBoi1 said:
Against Buu, Goku gave it his all and killed him with the Spirit Bomb because he knew he was an intergalactic threat.
Click to expand...
He was before, as fat Buu. And despite that thought he should give an oportunity to the guys and held back. Btw, that made me remind his fight against Majin Vegeta, which he saw that killed people but still he didn't use the SSJ3 despite getting ragdolled. Why would he, here?
MintyBoi1 said:
And that is completely not the reason he spared Frieza. He believed by humbling him and beating him at his strongest he could change him into a person and not a monster.
Click to expand...
So, according to you: Goku sees a threat to the universe, people tell him to kill Freezer. Freezer kills his friends, but he want him to calm down and change; and he's going all out with an instant one shot against Saitama just because he grew stronger a little bit? Don't see that reasoning working.
 
Killerdrone123 said:
The whole 58× amp is for the entire fight not that he would he would instantly grow by 58× if that was the case the other supporters would have already pointed this out before only
Click to expand...
No? That's wrong, check the chapter, please. Saitama's growth started to kick in at that very moment, and literally 2 pages later he was 58x stronger. It's not the whole fight. And even if you think it is the whole fight, you can just consider that point of the fight (which gives us a graph), the final point (the difference were like I told you, 3 punches) and see that that difference is almost the same as his original value and the final one.
Killerdrone123 said:
Also saitama has a slight edge above goku in strength so once goku sense that he is stronger than him also that he is growing faster than he would definitely transform to end the fight
Click to expand...
Saitama's growth is exponential. An exponential function does not grow fast at the very first moment. It first grows slow, until it becomes too fast for any other function to compete.

Goku would not sense Saitama getting 58x stronger instantly. He'd first sense Saitama getting a stronger after the first punch, even stronger after the second one, then after the third one he'd be 58x. Goku'd go to SSJ to match, but at that point Saitama'd be growing at a fast enough rate that not even any other of Goku's power amp can cover.

Even if Goku tries to attack Saitama (without kill, remember Goku does not kill)... that'd be even worse. Because that'd help Saitama's growth even more (even a pre-training Saitama got a big power boost after getting near Death's door)
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
You said it yourself, match, not instantly kill. Goku does not instantly kill the enemy, even if he sees them as a threat (Freezer, Fat Majin Buu; didn't kill the first despite he killed Krillin, didn't kill the latter because he wanted the next generation to do something).

You're saying Goku would amp his power instantly to match a growth of a character he doesn't know that can grow that fast, concentrate in the fight, transform and use an instant kamehameha to kill, all at the same time... I'm sorry but I doubt Goku'd even do that.

If Goku notices the growth at the first 2 punches, it is nothing notable, maybe a 10x amp with wank? I think even less. He'd then, at best, go to SSJ since he enjoys to fight, there's no real need to worry (the high growth hasn't started yet) and no reason to go all out. Then, Saitama'd, regardless how, grow up to 58x his initial value. If Goku does not go ssj3 at that very instant, jumping SSJ2 for no reason, the growth would without a doubt be enough to one shot him.

And that's in the hypothetical case he didn't use IT nor ki attacks at that point of the fight. Otherwise, Saitama'd have already mimicked them both.

So, why assuming that won't be the case against Saitama, who he knows nothing about nor that can grow that fast?

He was before, as fat Buu. And despite that thought he should give an oportunity to the guys and held back. Btw, that made me remind his fight against Majin Vegeta, which he saw that killed people but still he didn't use the SSJ3 despite getting ragdolled. Why would he, here?

So, according to you: Goku sees a threat to the universe, people tell him to kill Freezer. Freezer kills his friends, but he want him to calm down and change; and he's going all out with an instant one shot against Saitama just because he grew stronger a little bit? Don't see that reasoning working.
Click to expand...
You’re comparing very specific situations against known threats to a rando trying to murder Goku. He didn’t instantly kill Fat Buu because he couldn’t, SSJ3 ran out. He didn’t go all out against Majin Vegeta because they had history (also probably for plot because then we couldn’t have Vegeta’s sacrifice or SSJ3 Goku vs Fat Buu). And Frieza was the end of his naive belief villains like him could change, so that won’t even apply to a Buu Saga Goku. And Goku can sense Saitama’s rising power so he’ll get stronger to accommodate before it gets worse for him.
 
MintyBoi1 said:
You’re comparing very specific situations against known threats to a rando trying to murder Goku. He didn’t instantly kill Fat Buu because he couldn’t, SSJ3 ran out. He didn’t go all out against Majin Vegeta because they had history. And Frieza was the end of his naive belief villains like him could change, so that won’t even apply to a Buu Saga Goku.
Click to expand...
Fat Buu example does not make sense. Dead Goku has not that stamina limitation.

It's not that "he didn't go all out against Vegeta because they had a story", but that even when he was getting cornered, he still didn't use him. So why would here Goku go instantly for SSJ3 just because he's getting cornered in base?
MintyBoi1 said:
And Goku can sense Saitama’s rising power so he’ll get stronger to accommodate before it gets worse for him.
Click to expand...
He'll get stronger to accommodate, not to instantly kill. That's the whole point of Goku losing here.

And btw, please, tell me an instance Goku had instantly gone using full power and to kill an enemy just because he's a threat, or because he's grown a little bit stronger. If he didn't do so against Fat Majin Buu, against Cell, against Frieza, against no one. The times you're mentioning are after Goku messed up, a lot of damage was done, a lot of fight happened and Goku finally decided "Well, we better finish him this time". Since end of Dragon Ball, Goku didn't kill Piccolo because he thought he could be a good friend, Goku just killed Raditz because Raditz was too strong for them to handle and decided to sacrifice himself to let Piccolo end him, Goku didn't kill Vegeta because he could be a good enemy, Goku didn't kill Ginyu Force nor Frieza, Goku didn't try to kill Cell until way later in the fight that'd take for Saitama to overgrow him, Goku didn't try to kill Majin Buu until a whole saga happened and lot of damage was done. He never killed someone weaker than himself, nor even comparable, nor even stronger without a good fight and even then, he barely killed anyone. Why would he instantly go here to kill, if other enemies which cover the same SBA explanation weren't instantly killed by Goku?
 
It was not the stamina iirc it was more so the fact that his time for remaining on earth was running out quickly the more he used ssj3 so he won't be able to finish the fight in that time period so he used his remaining time to teach goten and trunks the fusion dance
 
Iirc, didn't Goku state that he didn't kill Buu because he wanted new generation to kill him instead? Anyway, at that point Goku saw that Buu was an energy with a power level comparable to his SSJ3, and even then he first gave an explanation of all his form to him.

Here, Saitama is as strong as base Goku at first, but would grow stronger over time to surpass SSJ3 Goku. If we're talking about context of why Goku didn't kill that time, then by said context Goku wouldn't kill this time. Hell, even if Goku broke Saitama's bones, Saitama'd still get up with a power up. Unless Goku goes instantly to knock out, something he has done, I think, once against Nappa on beginning of DBZ, he still loses.

Edit: Nvm, misremembering. Goku didn't knock out Nappa
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Iirc, didn't Goku state that he didn't kill Buu because he wanted new generation to kill him instead? Anyway, at that point Goku saw that Buu was an energy with a power level comparable to his SSJ3, and even then he first gave an explanation of all his form to him.

Here, Saitama is as strong as base Goku at first, but would grow stronger over time to surpass SSJ3 Goku. If we're talking about context of why Goku didn't kill that time, then by said context Goku wouldn't kill this time. Hell, even if Goku broke Saitama's bones, Saitama'd still get up with a power up. Unless Goku goes instantly to knock out, something he has done, I think, once against Nappa on beginning of DBZ, he still loses.
Click to expand...
It is both he was running out of time because of using ssj3 and he wanted to make them capable enough for handling the future threats when he is not there
 
Goku had a short time left alive and wanted to ensure that earth had protectors even after he was gone, that's why he didn't end Buu and instead taught them fusion....that context matters there because it can't be used against him here.

He's in a match where he can't afford to lose, jes not letting Saitama surpass him, especially since he can keep track of his growth
 
Which, again, does not mean he'd go to instantly kill.

Both Saitama and Garou got up from something far worse than what Goku does to his opponents to "end them" with an even bigger power up. So:

Goku does a normal battle like he always does against enemies far weaker than him, he starts getting overwhelmed in both base and SSJ after a couple of punches.

If Goku goes SSJ2 here, he loses. The gap is not high enough to one shot Saitama so Saitama'd grow far stronger than SSJ3 in short time.

If Goku goes SSJ3 here, he'd either:

1. Keep the fight going to see what Saitama is capable of. Yeah, Saitama might be an enemy, but for Goku he's also a fighter. Goku has little to no times gone through a transformation just to one shot the enemy. And, hell, he may even think Saitama is not growing stronger, but that he's using more of his innate power like any character with chi control does.
2. Try to let Saitama out of the fight without killing him. A Ki blast would do the work... but what Goku does not know is that limiter users like Saitama or Garou can get up even after getting his whole chest destroyed, after starting to lose the consciousness, getting stabbed, poisoned, etc. So Saitama'd grow stronger with a big amp due to his insane AD and that'd be the end of Goku.

I am sorry, but I do not see Goku winning this as easily as all people who vote for Goku say
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Which, again, does not mean he'd go to instantly kill.

Both Saitama and Garou got up from something far worse than what Goku does to his opponents to "end them" with an even bigger power up. So:

Goku does a normal battle like he always does against enemies far weaker than him, he starts getting overwhelmed in both base and SSJ after a couple of punches.

If Goku goes SSJ2 here, he loses. The gap is not high enough to one shot Saitama so Saitama'd grow far stronger than SSJ3 in short time.

If Goku goes SSJ3 here, he'd either:

1. Keep the fight going to see what Saitama is capable of. Yeah, Saitama might be an enemy, but for Goku he's also a fighter. Goku has little to no times gone through a transformation just to one shot the enemy. And, hell, he may even think Saitama is not growing stronger, but that he's using more of his innate power like any character with chi control does.
2. Try to let Saitama out of the fight without killing him. A Ki blast would do the work... but what Goku does not know is that limiter users like Saitama or Garou can get up even after getting his whole chest destroyed, after starting to lose the consciousness, getting stabbed, poisoned, etc. So Saitama'd grow stronger with a big amp due to his insane AD and that'd be the end of Goku.

I am sorry, but I do not see Goku winning this as easily as all people who vote for Goku say
Click to expand...
The difference between goku in ssj3 and saitama is that of 3b to 4a maybe would grow to 3c in fight goku one shots here considering the fact that saitama winning would lead to a severe consequences for him he won't hold back here and proceed to one shot
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Which, again, does not mean he'd go to instantly kill.

Both Saitama and Garou got up from something far worse than what Goku does to his opponents to "end them" with an even bigger power up. So:

Goku does a normal battle like he always does against enemies far weaker than him, he starts getting overwhelmed in both base and SSJ after a couple of punches.

If Goku goes SSJ2 here, he loses. The gap is not high enough to one shot Saitama so Saitama'd grow far stronger than SSJ3 in short time.

If Goku goes SSJ3 here, he'd either:

1. Keep the fight going to see what Saitama is capable of. Yeah, Saitama might be an enemy, but for Goku he's also a fighter. Goku has little to no times gone through a transformation just to one shot the enemy. And, hell, he may even think Saitama is not growing stronger, but that he's using more of his innate power like any character with chi control does.
2. Try to let Saitama out of the fight without killing him. A Ki blast would do the work... but what Goku does not know is that limiter users like Saitama or Garou can get up even after getting his whole chest destroyed, after starting to lose the consciousness, getting stabbed, poisoned, etc. So Saitama'd grow stronger with a big amp due to his insane AD and that'd be the end of Goku.

I am sorry, but I do not see Goku winning this as easily as all people who vote for Goku say
Click to expand...
 
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