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Zeref scaling to Etherion and Acnologia Durability

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If you watch today's episode then tell me can bisca fire jupitor canon without jupitor canon? If she can replicate a attack same ap as jupitor canon mean bisca ap is same as jupitor canon.


False Comparison. The two have very different mechanics, not to mention that the anime isn't even canon. The Manga is the Canon that we use, not the anime. I've told you this before.
 
@Rin

Other members such as August stated that Zeref needs Fairy Heart to beat Acnologia. And even when Zeref revealed that his plan is to time reset, he never denied that he can defeat Acnologia. He just said that his plans are bigger than that.

EDIT:

Not to mention, that Etherion is just an attack, so it wouldn't have a separate value to a character's normal AP

(For example Wall - he has his own Etherion Cannon, and while it's his strongest attack, it's not something far beyond his own capabilities. The same would be with Zeref)
 
If you watch today's episode then tell me can bisca fire jupitor canon without jupitor canon? If she can replicate a attack same ap as jupitor canon mean bisca ap is same as jupitor canon.


False Comparison. The two have very different mechanics, not to mention that the anime isn't even canon. The Manga is the Canon that we use, not the anime. I've told you this before.

Comparison is not false, and need my comment again, the same thing happen in manga, atleast try to read and understand
 
@Captain Torch


Yes, but I'd much rather take Zeref's own words than the words of August. And isn't that going against itself whenever Zeref himself states that he still can't beat Acnologia?
 
Zeref can't defeat acno in base, but he can still affect dragon with his magic like he did it with irene(turn her into human), zeref goal was to save humanity not to rule it, that's why he 1st motive to reset time to revive everyone he kill, and save future by killing acnologia. He also said that no one will able to stop him if he gain fh and he will surpass acnologia(as irene said)
 
Alright first things first. Dude you need to quit quoting large walls of text. It makes the thread a massive mess and makes everything harder. Secondly, no the anime and the Manga have very different translations. And I've shown you this in the Marin vs Law thread. Use the Manga not the anime or use nothing at all to support your claims. And lastly, it's very much a false comparison. You're comparing The Jupiter Canon and it's mechanics to Etherion and it's mechanics, despite Etherion having a much more complex mechanism. You're the one that needs to utilize reading comprehension here. And going by the Manga Irene doesn't stare that Zeref can beat Acnologia. Zeref knew he couldn't defeat Acnologia head on due to his Magic Resistance and overall better stats.
 
Zeref does tell Mavis that Acnologia wouldn't be able to kill them but he wouldn't be able to kill them either. Zeref says they would basically be Acnologia's toys. I don't see why that matters when Etherion doesn't work on Acnologia anyways.
 
  • you're comparing The Jupiter Canon and it's mechanics to Etherion and it's mechanics, despite Etherion having a much more complex mechanism. You're the one that needs to utilize reading comprehension here.
The difference between them is their ap that's


  • And going by the Manga Irene doesn't stare that Zeref can beat Acnologia. Zeref knew he couldn't defeat Acnologia head on due to his Magic Resistance and overall better stats.
Except irene says it, in universe one chapter, and zeref can ignore resistance as he did with irene.

20190114 013553 rmedited
Also explain this comment, if mavis can fire etherion without canon then why fh zeref can't do the same? Or why mavis even afraid to use fh it is just a "battery" according to you
 
Alright, let me explain this to you since your argument make no sense and are frankly stupid.


The difference between them is their ap that's

First off, I can't tell what you mean it. But it looks like you've been rushing your replies and stopped paying attention to your English skills. Secondly, no the AP isn't the only difference. Etherion needs permission from the MC to use and it takes a decent amount of time to fire. Unlike with Jupiter where it doesn't take as long to fire or achieve the same goal as Etherion does. So yes it's a a false comparison and a fallacy.


Except irene says it, in universe one chapter, and zeref can ignore resistance as he did with irene.


Are you really comparing Irene's resistance to Magic to Acnologia's resistance to Magic? You're either wanking Irene or downplaying Acnologia with this comment. And again, Zeref's words takes priority over Irene's. Irene's Magic Resistance is Fodder compared to Acnologia's. Erza was able to bypass her resistance with her enchanted sword. Meanwhile the Dragon Slayers going all out couldn't bypass Acnologia's magic resistance.


Also explain this comment, if mavis can fire etherion without canon then why fh zeref can't do the same? Or why mavis even afraid to use fh it is just a "battery" according to you


Man it's almost like you didn't read the thread. FH is a supply of Magic and an infinite amount of Magic at that. It does make Zeref stronger but it doesn't scale to Etherion. Especially taking the fact that it's greatest ability is to fire Etherion endlessly into consideration. If FH was as Strong as Etherion then Etherion wouldn't even be needed. FH doesn't scale to Etherion.
 
"If FH was as Strong as Etherion then Etherion wouldn't even be needed."

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Isn't the main plot point of FH was that it's too strong/important so FT kept it locked up in the guild's basement and it's existence was a huge secret?
 
It's not like Etherion wouldn't have been used if FH was as strong. After all, it was locked up in a basement and only a few people knew about it.
 
For that exact reason. FH itself doesn't scale to Etherion, it just grants the user to fire it if they wish so. That's what so dangerous about it, along with its limitless magic. It's the same Deal with Fairy Sphere, it doesn't have anything to do with direct AP but rather it's a hax. Think of it like me having control of our nuclear weapons stock, I myself can't generate that power alone but with the button I'd be able to unleash them.
 
No, Fairy Heart still uses the Canon. But it doesn't need to go through all of the steps that the MC needs to go through to use it. (I.E Granting permission, using what they have to fire it, etc. )
 
@Rin

The problem is that the council's cannon has been destroyed back in Tower of Heaven, so there's no other way to fire an Etherion Cannon.
 
Good point I suppose, however this argument is just as invalid given the lack of information. Hence why I think the scaling that we decided on is our best option, it doesn't use as many wild assumptions, doesn't high ball and follows the scaling that every other forum uses. Aside from scaling White Zeref and Co above High 6-C there's nothing else we can do. There's nothing to support FH or the Space Between Time being high 6-B. They're both magical reverses that grant hax. None of them can be utilized as a weapon or create the same DC that Etherion can.
 
We left that argument for a short while but it came back. From my understanding, right now it seems to be over

  • FH users =/= Etherion AP
  • Why does RoT Acno scale > Etherion when FH Zeref doesn't
 
I do think we should remove the Ravens of Time from Acnologia's profile as his reasoning. He shouldn't scale from that seeing as how it's only a magical supply. There's no real AP to gain from it, well at least AP comparable to Etherion. That being said he should still scale above Etherion since Acnologia is the strongest in the verse at this point.
 
Captain Torch said:
@Anonymous
The difference is that FH is an exception to the usual rule of Fairy Tail. Throughout the series, abosrbing something(especially if you're a dragon slayer), granted you power on that level.

Natsu ate an Etherion shard back in Tower of Heaven, which gave him the power of that etherion shard. Absorbing Laxus's lightning in tenrou, eating Atlas Flame's hellfire - there's plenty of examples, where absorbing magic power increases your DC.

Aubin is correct in that regard, in FT, the more magic power you absorb, the more DC you have, and it is correlated.

Fairy Heart is an exception, since it seems to be working differently than the rest of power sources. The fact that it doesn't really "contain" a specific power source(because it's infinite) probably plays a role in this as well.

Having said that, there's no reason to assume that Acnologia's case is also an exception, especially when he is a slayer as well, and dragon slayers were powering up like this thoughout the series.
Click to expand...
^this
 
@Rin

Throughout the span of Fairy Tail, we have consistently seen that when a wizard absorbs something, he gets power of that level.

When Natsu ate the Etherion Shard, the magic power of the etherion shard was "transferred" to Natsu, heavily increasing his output. His "reserves" didn't get bigger - his "output" did.

The same happened when Natsu ate Atlas Flame's "Hellfire", and there are other examples that I can't think of right now.

My point is, in Fairy Tail the idea of "more magic power = more DC" has been shown throughout the series. The only different case is "Fairy Heart", which worked differently for some reason(Maybe partly because it's "infinite", which is why he changed it that the power gave him hax instead of DC, not really sure though)

So FH Zeref is the only known exception to the rule. Now, we know for a fact that Acnologia absorbed the RoT, which should contain far more magic power than etherion. It didn't just increase his reserves - it increased his output. To the point that he even had problems controlling it, and had to split into his soul form.

Given the logic Fairy Tail followed from the very beginning, the most logical answer is that he his magic power = DC, which would imply that he scales above Etherion.
 
FH Zeref follows the same rule, it's just that "infinite" is an hyperbole to indicate that he's much stronger than anything else.

Aside from that, I agree with Captain Torch.
 
FH Zeref also has the Magic Power of the Space Between Time, therefore he should scale as well
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Also explain this comment, if mavis can fire etherion without canon then why fh zeref can't do the same? Or why mavis even afraid to use fh it is just a "battery" according to youan it's almost like you didn't read the thread. FH is a supply of Magic and an infinite amount of Magic at that. It does make Zeref stronger but it doesn't scale to Etherion. Especially taking the fact that it's greatest ability is to fire Etherion endlessly into consideration. If FH was as Strong as Etherion then Etherion wouldn't even be needed. FH doesn't scale to Etherion.
Click to expand...
You should read your own comment, previously you said mavis can fire etherion without etherion canon cause it FH ability.

20190114 095657 rmedited
If you forget about your own scan, read it here.

  • durining tratraous arc and alverz arc both makarov and mavis fear to even use it cause it does so much destruction and can level etherion, note that during those 2 arc none of them have any country tier attack to boost them with fh, fh on his own is powerful enough.
  • if mavis can fire etherion without etherion canon, then so does zeref cause it fh ability @rin that's what you say.
If they can do it then both have high6-b ap with fh alone cause they can spam high 6-B attack without that said weapon.

  • mavis afraid to using it even tho she didn't have any country tier magic clear shows that fh is just more than battery and old offensive power atleast as much as etherion that's why mavis scale fh to it. And Mavis was it, host, (repeating the same thing again) you can't hurt anyone with Battery , since fh can cause destruction without combining it to any weapon to prove that it has its own offensive power and we didn't treat it as a battery
 
Face was gonna be countered by unleashing the infimite magic into Earthland to counter Face destroying it. Simply releasing loads of magic will inevitably have severe side effects on the world as well.

FH isn't meant for direct combat, its a support or indirect magic.
 
There are a lot of lies and misinformation being spread here to equate Fairy Heart as having an AP that is equal to Etherion.

Let's get some things straight:

Fairy Heart Doesn't Have AP
Fairy Heart is literally a storage of infinite magic.

That's it. Nothing else. It just holds magic. It has no AP.

Fairy Heart Can't Fire Etherio
Also a mistake, Fairy Heart can't fire Etherion. To repeate Mavis' exact words: "Fairy Heart holds enough magic to fire such a weapon (Etherion) an unlimited number of times."

Fairy Heart is not able to fire Etherion. Etherion is literally a weapon that needs magic to fuel it. Fairy Heart could supply it. To quote Makarov's words: "Imagine losing control of an Etherion with an infinite power supply..."

Etherion and the power supply are separated, they are not one of the same. Fairy Heart is the infinite power supply that could fuel the Etherion to do it's damage.

Basically Etherion is the gun and Fairy Heart are the bullets.

Zeref having Fairy Heart does not give him Etherion's AP. He literally isn't able to output that amount of magic since he doesn't have the means to do so.

This Probably Doesn't Scale to Acnologia Now
Mavis hypothesized that this could be used to defeat Acnologia; however, we literally have no feats nor anything else that indicates Acnologia could survive or no-sell the blast. It's entirely speculation and nothing says he could.

Space Between Times Is the Exact Same as Fairy Heart (Kinda)
Space Between Time is nearly the same as Fairy Heart as in both are storages of magic.

There are only two differences between the two:

1) The Space Between Time is not an infinite supply like Fairy Heart.

2) The Space Between Time is solely Time Magic.

As I've proven, the Space Between Time is a storage of magic as well. It doesn't have an AP either and Acnologia couldn't even properly control it.


There is literally nothing connecting Acnologia to be 6-A or even 6-B in fact. 6-B is from Etherion, but Space Between Time literally has no connection to Etherion. They're never once said in the same chapters or volume even. Same for Zeref and Natsu. Nothing puts either of them at 6-B as they have no connection to Etherion's 6-B rating.
 
Saying etherion doesn't hold ap is completely false, Mavis who was just is 7-A didn't have anything even close to high6-B still she afraid to using ithere also Makarov try to use it to destroy face here also note that during both times etherion canon was completely neutralized. If FH didn't have any ap then zeref and statement and makarov statement didn't make any sense which is false.

For raven of times-

It fill up with time-space magic, acnologia consume it to gain a powerup, same as how Natsu consume laxus lightning to gain a powerup. While acnologia powerup was to great to even control that's why he split up. It didn't reduce his ap it only increase it
 
He doesn't say it would destroy Face, just that he would deal with it.

Face destroys/negates magic. Infinite magic is a pretty good counter to it even if it were to go off. The difference between Acno eating RoT and Natsu eating other elements is that Natsu has control over it while Acnologia explicitly couldn't control it hence the dissonance between his mind and body, like you mentioned.

There is no proof it increased his AP at all since they couldn't do anything to him before and they couldn't do anything to him then until 7FDM.
 
Regarding Acnologia not getting an AP boost after absorbing ROT, he twice upon his initial return mentions that he's more powerful mentioning his power up reminds him of when he initially became the "ultimate dragon slayer". He also mentions the difficulty in controlling the power, splitting his mind from his body with his mind actively seeking an effective way to manage the power (which ironically enough meant absorbing even more power from the DS) so quite clearly there is a growth in power.

As for the comparison between the lizard king and the country nuke; Mavis initially hypothesised that Etherion wouldn't be able to stop Acno, but later Zeref just about confirms it when he notes that nothing they would try would stop the big magic consuming lizard. Seeing as those two are objectively 2 of the most intelligent characters around gives validity to their statements.

Also this thread went belly up.
 
Makarov- i once thought it as well,when he have to deal it with face,but even we won that round,there is no telling what could happen next,what we can do etherion go berserk with fh.

Makarov plan to destroy the face, cause wizards take some days to refil their magic while face absorption of ethernano was much faster than wizards absorbing the ethernano.

I am repeating it again why mavis or makarov was afraid to using FH even when etherion canon was null by tratraous, while y'all saying that fh is just a battery IIRC a battery can't do any damage or harm anyone, unlike for, mavis didn't try to use it even in war when her all friend and family about to die and they outnumbered.
 
Why is everyone forgetting the fundamental laws of Fairy Tail, having a higher magic power equates to being stronger than before, whenever anyone in Fairy Tail freaks they say, how can they have this much magic power or I can't believe this level of magic power, said person are always far stronger, then, With Second Origin, it increases your container of Magic Power and that gives you a power boost that allows you to be far stronger than you were before, point is, since the beginning of the series, having more magic power makes you stronger, so when Zeref and Acnologia are given things that contain more magic than Etherion, such as Fairy Heart or The Space Between Time, then they should surpass it in power as well, saying that getting these things doesn't increase your power at all, and it just gives you new abilities or hax, is just wrong and goes against everything the story has done up to this point
 
So what are the conclusions here?
 
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