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Zeref scaling to Etherion and Acnologia Durability

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They'd be able to fire it, not accomplish the same feats by themselves. Read above, Zeref with Fairy Heart and Space Between Time was still stated to be unable to defeat High 6-C Acnologia when he was weaker. Fairy Heart doesn't make you as strong as Etherion, but gives the user the ability and the option to use such a weapon if possible. It wouldn't scale to their striking strength or AP since they'd still need Etherion in order to cause that amount of destruction. Which is impossible now due to Etherion being useless in the Manga since it doesn't work anymore. The point is that users of Fairy Heart don't become High 6-B when using it. All it does is give the user a boost in strength which isn't countable, and had the ability to deploy Etherion. The Space Between Time isn't even worth the effort going over again since it's never stated in the same sentence as Etherion nor has it ever been confirmed or even implied to be stronger than Etherion. All it does is give time magic and makes you stronger. Attempting to scale Etherion to these is incorrect, for various reasons. Think of Etherion as a nuke (Funnily enough it's called a magical nuke in the Manga.) someone could drop it but it doesn't scale to the person who dropped it. There's nothing to suggest Zeref and Co would be able to tank Etherion, the best one you could argue about is Acnologia. But that's even countered by the fact that Acnologia couldn't control The Space Between Times and had his body and soul spilt apart as a result. He certainly got stronger but the fact that he couldn't control something that's not as strong as Etherion means something.
 
Not debating any side, but I need to mention that Rin's argument of "he can't be that strong because he is weaker than High 6-C Acnologia" is invalid, because that would just mean that Acnologia is High 6-B as well.

Other than that neutral on the topic.
 
Guys, the simple fact that it's hyped to have "infinite power", like hyperboles similar to this one, is LITERALLY just to show that's it's the strongest magical artifact of the series. Just that. The Ravines of time may be the only exception, but even then it doesn't matter as Zeref had control of that as well.

We have already done something like this with The Triforce back when it didn't have any feat and it just scaled from other characters of the verse simply because it had a lot of omnipotent hyperboles clearly meant to tell you that it's the strongest thing in the series.

I see no difference here.

And as Ant said, if FH CAN power up Etherion, that means that it's capable of emitting that much energy while doing it. I highly doubt that Zeref, the strongest character of the series which is CONSTANTLY considered a genius about magic wouldn't be able to replicate the AP.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, if it was stated outright that Fairy Heart can power Etherion level discharges, it seems uncharitable to assume that skilled magic users in possession of it would be unable to perform similar feats.
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View it like this, Ant:

Fairy Heart is a never ending bullets.

Etherion is the actual handgun.

All Zeref had were the bullets, but he doesn't have an actual gun to fire it, he has his regular ol' nerf toy gun.

It doesn't change Zeref's AP since he doesn't have the Etherion Cannon in his possession (need I remind people that Etherion is literally a giant weapon that has even been called a satellite before).
 
That's one interception of it, however I think the more likely case is that Zeref isn't as strong as Acnologia even with Fairy Heart. The main point to take away from here is that Zeref absolutely shouldn't scale to Etherion. With that being said I'll tally up the votes, I'm also tempted to not count the votes for Etherion scaling to Zeref since a lot of them revolve around misinformation, old and bad scams, and a lot of assumptions which I've proven to be wrong.


Not scaling Etherion to Zeref: 8 (Me, Imade, Sigurd, Regis, Zen, Sir Silent, Damage, Sins 32)
 
This is all false and I've already explained why. Infinite magic isn't a flowery language, it's the legit ability or Fairy Heart. That's the whole point of it. And your Zelda compassion doesn't cut it either, two completely different verses running on different mechanics. Zeref isn't the strongest character in the series either that would be Acnologia. And Zeref himself never states to have power that reviled Etherion.
 
I wouldn't count votes here. Fairy Tail is the verse with the second biggest list of Opposers of the wiki, so some people will just vote for them to be downgraded just because they hate the show.
 
I am also uncertain. I would prefer to see what Dragonmasterxyz thinks.

You can also check for any staff members listed in the Fairy Tail page, and ask them as well.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
I wouldn't count votes here. Fairy Tail is the verse with the second biggest list of Opposers of the wiki, so some people will just vote for them to be downgraded just because they hate the show.
Click to expand...


This isn't needed. But it's a nice attempt to derail the thread. Don't pull the bias card.
 
@Rin

Being fair though, you pulled the same card by saying "I'm also tempted to not count the votes for Etherion scaling to Zeref since a lot of them revolve around misinformation, old and bad scams, and a lot of assumptions which I've proven to be wrong"

As I already said, this topic is far from clear. There is no side that can 100% say that they are right, which is why I'm remaining neutral. Hiro didn't explain this topic that well, which is the reason we even have this discussion.
 
I didn't count the votes because of actual reasons. Older scans that aren't official are being used, wild assumptions and misinformation. It's a bit different than someone saying votes shouldn't count because people are bias.


Aside from that I agree that Hiro didn't explain this well enough.
 
I agree with Captain Torch. This is up to personal interpretation, not objective correct and incorrect.
 
How is it unclear? Zeref with Fairy Heart hasn't managed anything on the scale of Etherion, so why would anyone scale him to it?
 
Because he possessed magic power greater than Etherion, and never had the chance or intention to blow up any countries.
 
My point exactly. Fairy Heart doesn't scale directly to Etherion, it has the potential to use it yes but it doesn't translate into every time you throw a bunch its as strong as Etherion. It's only on that level while using Etherion which you can't use anymore.
 
Again, that is just one subjective interpretation, not a given fact. A compromise solution might be best here.
 
Anyway, I am extremely busy, and do not have the time to constantly argue about this.
 
Ant, Fairy Heart doesn't have an AP.

Etherion is literally a giant cannon in the sky.

Fairy Heart is just unlimited supply of magic and it's a theory that Fairy Heart can be used to power the weapon to fire it an infinite amount of times.

By your interpretation, Ant, you're saying that Zeref has infinite AP because he has infinite magic.

That's literally not possible, he's limited by his spells and magic output. That level is 6-C.
 
Fairy Heart is infinite magic. If attached to anything it can range from Tier 11 to Tier 2 AP, it just depends on what it is attached to and what that thing can output.

It's limited by the means of converting that magic.

Zeref was 6-C and did not do anything to give him a higher tier.
 
Well, I don't have the energy to argue about this, but I asked Dragonmasterxyz for input.
 
I also wouldn't feel right about bothering him about this whenever he's stated that he doesn't want to get involved. We agreed earlier that we'd simply vote on what scaling to use instead, and so far it's 8 to 3 in favor of the downgrades along with some users being neutral.
 
This wouldn't be fair. Now that @dragonmaster is done with FT, doing votes on the non members would create problem given the fact if we do votes like this, we would end up having either voting GMG or an upgrade/downgrade cause they either want it or don't
 
The GMG thread was almost unanimously rejected. We've said our arguments so there's not much to say anymore and no side is going to budge. At this point arguing is just gonna go into circles so voting would be the best method.
 
Well...alright. We however need people who can be the "staff memeber" of FT.

Moving on again I could had sworn that Pre RoT Acno was above Etherion
 
We don't use votes to accept upgrades or downgrades. Same thing happened in the High 3-A downgrade for JoJo and it was agreed as such.

Etherion is literally just a big blast of magic directed by the Council's old man. We know it's magic thanks to the whole Tower of Heaven plan, in which the Tower absorbed Etherion.

Zeref has a bigger pool of magic and more knowledge that the council men, that aren't even mages in the first place. The fact that Makarov was scared of using FH against Face also shows that it's not just a battery.
 
We do vote and that's what we're going for. Me and Mitch agreed to such terms, while we might not see eye to eye on this we both know it's better to save everyone's energy and drop the debate due to neither side giving up on their beliefs. So voting would be the best method here. And while Etherion fires magic its clear that it's still much more powerful and destructive than Fairy Heart AP wise. It being magic doesn't make it able to scale to Fairy Heart or Etherion. Again if Fairy Heart could accomplish such feats on its own it wouldn't need to fire Etherion endlessly, which remains unproven for the fact that Etherion can't be used anymore. Fairy Heart doesn't solely act as the battery, it does include AP but it doesn't place Zeref on the same level as Etherion or such destructive weapons. He has no feats of doing so and it's never even implied he's capable of doing such. Not to mention that Zeref was using it to fuse it with the Space Between Time to create the Neo Eclipse so he can kill Acnologia before he got strong.


Fairy Heart is something that scales to the AP of Etherion which directly using it. Fairy Heart on its own is a limitless supply of magic and gives Zeref hax along with making him stronger than before.


9 in favor of the downgrades and 4 in favor of keeping the scaling.
 
Are we finally putting this to rest? I am going with the downgrades.

And on the we don't vote for this kinda stuff, Nedge was the one who said to and pretty much all of us agreed.
 
Seriously, how hard is it to understand.

The basic Law of Magic in FT universe: Bigger amount of Magic you have=The stronger you are.

Let's talked about the Second Origin which is a magical container every wizard in FT has.

Juvia during the 4th event of GMG: Opened up her second Origin=She punches harder.

Erza vs Minerva=Opened up her SO, she punches harder.

Heck, even Chelia after opened up her Third Origin she become strong enough to beat Dimaria.

FH is a magical source that can be used to shoot Etherion (A High 6-B weapon) repeatedly. What makes you think Zeref cannot just create something that has the same amount of energy as Etherion even though he has the necessary stuff to do it. It don't have to be a big ass laser, he can just creates small ball of magic that contained the same amount energy as Etherion instead since he has the necessary amount of magic to do it.
 
Chelia didn't open up a 3rd Origin. The 3rd Origin is using time magic to temporarily grant a person the full potential they would reach in life at the cost of losing their magic afterwards.
 
Can't we just compromise, both sides aren't budging and that would be better for literally everyone, compromising is a good strategy for dealing with these kind've vague senarios, both sides are saying, I don't wanna compromises because the other side is factually wrong, but we're talking about something that can be interpreted in multiple ways, how bout we all decide that maybe we can try to come to a solution together instead of doing this whole my way or the highway routine

the revisions were changed to High 6-B before on a vote several times, but is that all were gonna do now, every few months take votes from new groups and random people, and see which side is the majority, that's a bad way of doing this that results in having to talk about this topic so much, regardless of the fact that there are some who are voting without looking for actual info, point is, I believe we should all make some concessions and compromise

And then agree to never talk about this ever again

@Nedge and Antvasima

I suggest we try to compromise or we'll be going nowhere, because within the next few months this topic will be brought up over and over again, let's make a compromise and then never talk about this topic ever again, unless New Feats or Statements solidly confirm or deny the scaling
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Chelia didn't open up a 3rd Origin. The 3rd Origin is using time magic to temporarily grant a person the full potential they would reach in life at the cost of losing their magic afterwards.
Click to expand...
Doesn't change the fact she got stronger because of it.
 
No it doesn't but its not her being given more magic that causes it, its her being given her maximum potential she can reach in life over a decade down the line for a few minutes.
 
Ok, I'll give my position on this:


Overall, I am neutral on this topic since both sides have valid points that can be true, and it all depends on interpretation. But since we can't 100% prove either side, then it's best to go with the lowball, a.k.a Rin's point.

Having said that, I do think that a "possibly High 6-B" should be added as well, since Aubin also has valid points which could be true.

So I suggest we put them at "High 6-C, possibly High 6-B"
 
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