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Zeref Dragneel Big Upgrade
- Thread starter Zeinx1
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1. This is not the place to discuss Shinza
2. Everything you said about Shinza is completely wrong, this event never happens
3. the neo-eclipse will only reset a time factor of 400 years on a single timeline, i.e. only the specified timeline will be reset, it cannot damage any other timeline, even if it does damage it, the 2c event will not be fully realised due to the chain reaction and cannot be given a complete result
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this is already true, in addition to this you can at least get limited fate manipulation (zeref's profile has a few resistances from his own demons, not all of them are written, but there are a lot of hax and resistances to be written, this is one of the important factors that will put zeref above other characters)
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Please just stop repeating yourself again and again. With your logic the main timeline consists of 2 space-time continuums. But no, like I said you interpret the context according to your own mind. Timelines are connected to each other and effecting main timeline effects other timelines. That's all. Effecting main timeline is enough to effect other timelines, which means zeref doesn't scale to other timelines.
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Zeinx1
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I had tears in my eyes, it's perfect.
Zeinx1
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- #48
you are doing nothing but glossing over what I said and as I said 2 more timelines are connected to the main timeline and if you destroy the main timeline the others will disappear as in the shinza example I gave and in this case the main timeline will increase to 2c from being connected to the main timeline
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Stop giving examples about shinza. There is no even profiles and I don't care the system in the past and old profiles. Even you are saying that destruction of main timeline will destroy other timelines which means that destroying main timeline is enough to destroy all timelines. That what we call chain reaction. You are just ignoring my arguments, you can't even answer that why it should be 2c. It's simple because you made it up in your mind. I'm not going to answer you again because you make me just repeat myself.
Zeinx1
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first of all, if an event in the world of darkness universe and an event in the demon slayer universe are even the same, they can be given examples from that universe. what's wrong with that. the same event that happened in mercurius is also in zeref, I don't see a problem in giving an example. the reason why shinza profiles were removed was because translation errors appeared, and it was not in the old system. In the current system, only a few things changed in the current system, the 2a tier or low 1c tier remained the same. just because you don't care doesn't mean it's wrong. you're making an argument of the igronance fallacy and it's like "I've never heard of an anime with stronger characters than DBZ, so therefore, DBZ characters must be the strongest in all of anime." don't humiliate yourself. also Chain Reaction: The neutrons produced as a result of fission are absorbed by other fissionable atomic nuclei in the environment, causing them to undergo the same reaction, and this is repeated consecutively, so what's the big deal? How many times do I have to tell you why it should be 2c? The main timeline is at 2c because there are 2 other timelines that are connected to it. Again I give the example I said, in a cosmology the universe is at high 1b and you are at high 1b and this is a cosmological feat, normally this feat gives low 2c so it is the same as saying it is low 2c. other timelines are at 2c because they are connected to the main timelines
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Just because Zeref created them doesn't necessarily mean he can use all of their abilities.
Also just because those abilities cannot kill Zeref doesn't necessarily mean he is resistant to all of them. He is an immortal with the ability to regenerate; plenty of those powers would fail to kill him without him resisting them.
Also just because those abilities cannot kill Zeref doesn't necessarily mean he is resistant to all of them. He is an immortal with the ability to regenerate; plenty of those powers would fail to kill him without him resisting them.
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I'll go in more depth later, but for some of my more objective disagreements.
I don't agree with Plot Manipulation. Zeref isn't manipulating the "plot" of his creations or anything in relation to their placement within the series on a meta-level. He's just manipulating the course, actions and consequences of his creations. It would be more apt to give him something like Life Manipulation, Mind Manipulation etc. For these feats; not Plot Manipulation, which necessitates the existence of meta constructs being affected, which aren't present in Zeref's situation.
I also don't agree with 2-C, everyone has already addressed this to death, so I won't explain my reasoning here.
I don't agree with Plot Manipulation. Zeref isn't manipulating the "plot" of his creations or anything in relation to their placement within the series on a meta-level. He's just manipulating the course, actions and consequences of his creations. It would be more apt to give him something like Life Manipulation, Mind Manipulation etc. For these feats; not Plot Manipulation, which necessitates the existence of meta constructs being affected, which aren't present in Zeref's situation.
I also don't agree with 2-C, everyone has already addressed this to death, so I won't explain my reasoning here.
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Tf is blud talking about? Ignorance fallacy?
? I say that you can't give about examples about these two series because they are too different. Also profiles were too old. I already said that timelines are connected just means that destroying main timeline enough to destroy other timelines. You can't explain why that's not a chain reaction, I bet that you don't know even what it is. I'm not gonna reply you again, stop interrupting me. I already disagree with addition.
? I say that you can't give about examples about these two series because they are too different. Also profiles were too old. I already said that timelines are connected just means that destroying main timeline enough to destroy other timelines. You can't explain why that's not a chain reaction, I bet that you don't know even what it is. I'm not gonna reply you again, stop interrupting me. I already disagree with addition.
Zeinx1
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- #54
zeref already created those demons and gave them these haxes, why can't he use it himself? after all, zeref gave them this ability and therefore he can use it. (this is also a hax)
As for resistance, Zeref needs to have resistance to everything he has because Zeref is someone who has tried everything to kill himself.
I would make a long and evidenced explanation about resistance but I will sleep now
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this issue is getting worse and worse, at worst a few hax and a few resistors should be added
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Disagree FRA. Damage especially makes a good point. The way we see his immortality throughout the series wouldn't necessarily imply that those abilities didn't affect him or "kill" him, rather that it could not kill him in any meaningful way since he just regenerates. The abilities this would even be relevant for are also already on his profile so. And 2C is a big no because nothing there implies that Neo-Eclipse would do that. Also the wording and the context of it doesn't even seem like it could possibly be some sort of AP feat, literally just saying the past effects the future in other words.
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I agree.
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Dude, it doesn't change anything. You said yourself that events on one timeline affect other timelines.
Also, the fact that the timelines are interconnected does not make the main timeline 2c
. It only affects cosmology. And from what you have presented and explained, I fully understand that events in the main timeline affect other timelines, so yes. I strongly disagree with 2c. And I never said anything like the example you gave, I said that timelines are interconnected, so any damage to the main timeline affects other timelines, and if this is the case, it is not a destruction caused by Zeref's own Ap, but the destruction of other timelines due to the effect of cosmology after destroying the main timeline.
Zeinx1
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- #62
I think you are deliberately pretending not to understand, first of all it is not igronance fallacy, it is Argument from ignorance. also yes you did? let me explain the fallacy mixed with my own argument Argument from IgnoranceTf is blud talking about? Ignorance fallacy?
An argument from ignorance is an assertion that a claim is either true or false because of a lack of evidence to the contrary. The speaker assumes that their position is true because it has not been or cannot be proven false, or that their opponent’s position is false because it has not been or cannot be proven true.
How It Works
An argument from ignorance, or in Latin, argumentum ad ignorantiam, places the burden of proof on the opposite party. In logical debates, if you make a claim, you’re responsible for providing evidence to support it. An argument from ignorance asserts that you don’t have to do this vital work - only your opponent has to.
If you’re familiar with appeals to ignorance, you may have heard the phrase, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” What that basically means is that appeals to ignorance are forms of hasty conclusion jumping. To use the earlier example, the lack of evidence of the divine doesn’t prove anything beyond the absence of evidence. Through the use of another argument from ignorance, the opposing speaker could just as easily assert, “Well, you can’t prove God doesn’t exist, so he does!” Arguments from ignorance can always be turned back on those who first used them. In fact, this is a great way to point out to your audience and your opponent that a fallacy was used and that its conclusion isn’t necessarily right.
It’s important to note that arguments from ignorance don’t necessarily designate a user’s intelligence level. Any type of debater is capable of making this error. you say they should not be given as examples because they are different but think about it like this is lifting 3 kilos in the world world of darkness universe different from lifting 3 kilos in the demon slayer universe? of course not because it is the same event you can't understand that it is the same event. you say the profiles are too old but it was something that happened in 2019 2020. the profiles are not that old ok you say they are old but again nothing has changed because the way the 2a tier and low 1c tier have been given from then to now has remained the same. the part you don't understand is that directly the main, real timeline itself is in tier 2c because the other 2 timelines are connected to it. zeref destroys it and finds its place in tier 2c. i also explained why there is no chain reaction and what a chain reaction is in that message, please read my message and come back.
GarrixianXD
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Disagree FRA.
Zeinx1
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- #64
What Damage said is wrong, I just woke up, I will answer soon, Zeref must gain manipulation and resistance.
Neo should be 2c because of eclipse because there are 2 timelines connected to the main timeline. If you reset the main timeline, you will also reset the other timelines.
GarrixianXD
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I’m pretty much with Gin here.
Zeinx1
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- #67
2 l2c timelines connected to the main timeline will make the main timeline 2c. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. If there is, I would like to hear your explanation, Zeref resets the main timeline through Neo Eclipse, it is not an indirect effect, it is just because it depends on it and Zeref resets it too and starts a new world.?
Dude, it doesn't change anything. You said yourself that events on one timeline affect other timelines.
Also, the fact that the timelines are interconnected does not make the main timeline 2c
And I never said anything like the example you gave, I said that timelines are interconnected, so any damage to the main timeline affects other timelines, and if this is the case, it is not a destruction caused by Zeref's own Ap, but the destruction of other timelines due to the effect of cosmology after destroying the main timeline.
This will therefore make 2c (of course, if you say that 3 l2c structures are not 2c, I can't say anything about it)
zeref 2c ap should win through neo eclipse i still defend this.
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What Damage said was correct.
PrinceofPein
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No. He got it cause he views it as fiction. Also it is H1-A/1-A/1-B and not low 1-C
In relation to masada that's all.
PrinceofPein
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You said he got low 1-C from destroying a universe connecting to infinite other universes and I am saying, he was never low 1-C and his tier 1 was from viewing all those universes as fiction. He never destroyed a universe that connects to infinite other universes.
In conclusion: you cannot use his situation as a justification for whatever you want to grant zeref they are worlds apart.
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I don't understand what you're saying, brother. Why does the interconnectedness of the timelines make the main timeline 2c? This timeline does not contain other timelines (at least that's what I'm saying based on what you've told me) or anything else, it's just that the timelines are interconnected and an event that occurs in one affects the other timelines.
It doesn't make the main timeline 2c I don't know how many times I have to say it but it just means that the timelines are interconnected so that events in one timeline affect the other.
Zeref does not directly affect the other timelines. In your narrative, you say that Zeref only destroys the main timeline and that other timelines are damaged as a result, this is not a direct destruction caused by Zeref. It is a destruction that occurs only in the main timeline, so that other timelines are affected by this destruction.
Zeinx1
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- #76
As we know, the timeline is a low 2-c structure, 3 low 2-c structures give us the 2c tier. The other 2 timelines are connected to the main timeline earthland, which is the main timeline, and every event that happens in the main timeline happens in the same way in the other 2 timelines.
This makes the main timeline 2c because there are 2 other timelines that are based on it and they are based on earthland which makes it 2c.
No, zeref directly affects the other timelines, when zeref resets the main timeline it resets the other 2 timelines as it did with lucy. When zeref affects the main timeline as in lucy, the other timelines will be reset by zeref's ap.
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As I keep repeating, this line of reasoning is incorrect. This is only in the context of Eclipse being destroyed. It has nothing to do with Zeref’s time reset, nor is there proof that this time reset would destroy the other timelines. It’s all speculation and headcanon on your end.
And let’s say for the sake of argumentation that you’re hypothetically correct. It still wouldn’t upgrade Neo Eclipse because the other worlds being destroyed wouldn’t be through Neo Eclipse’s power. It’d be through a chain reaction
And let’s say for the sake of argumentation that you’re hypothetically correct. It still wouldn’t upgrade Neo Eclipse because the other worlds being destroyed wouldn’t be through Neo Eclipse’s power. It’d be through a chain reaction
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Also I’m switching to disagree on the ability additions for Zeref
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I'm really starting to get annoyed. You are persistently trying not to understand, where is the proof of what you say in the evidence you present?
I mean prove to me that Zeref has a direct influence on these timelines, because in the evidence you presented in Crt the only reason why the timelines are directly related to each other is because affecting one Timeline affects the other Timeline or timelines in a chain reaction, explain to me how this relates to Zeref's Ap?
And yes, the things you describe do not make that timeline 2c. Stop thinking that the fact that these timelines are connected makes a structure 2c. This is getting really boring.
And if what Clover said is true, we don't even need to discuss it, so yes, I still disagree.
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