Reinhard Van Astrea vs Pre demon lord Rimuru

[Zabazab]

Here you go here his intuition level , I saw nothing like that

Here is Reinhard detecting a stationary, invisible wall of instant death that exists in a different plane of existence, and therefore has no way to detect it via senses, aura, etc. He just knows that it's there from intuition.

Lightly, Regulus patted the place where he had been struck by the sword, and tilted his head.

Reinhard, alerted by this motion, tossed aside the scraps in his hands and made to leap backward at a wide angle―— just as he prepared to jump, his feet froze in place.

Reinhard’s superhuman intuition.

It informed him of dire, imminent threats to his self, and preemptively detecting incoming attacks. His keen instincts told him that he could not dodge to the rear. He immediately straightened and began to search for alternative routes.

Under unequal speed Reinhard can also just, see Rimuru from 2km pretty clearly. His intuition just tells him that he should matter nuke.

Under equal speed Rimuru just turns off all of Reinhard's abilities and then he has no way to lose it seems.

 

[Peak]

this is a bad match by the looks of it

 

[Zabazab]

Can't speak for TenSura, but good matches with Re:Zero top tiers are really hard because even basic info about them is so limited (the story is only ~half-way done)

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Here is Reinhard detecting a stationary, invisible wall of instant death that exists in a different plane of existence, and therefore has no way to detect it via senses, aura, etc. He just knows that it's there from intuition.


Under unequal speed Reinhard can also just, see Rimuru from 2km pretty clearly. His intuition just tells him that he should matter nuke.

Under equal speed Rimuru just turns off all of Reinhard's abilities and then he has no way to lose it seems.

This is not a enough feat for him to strike him with a matter nuke.

Regulus Attacks are deadly for him to but he didn't instantly use matter nuke either.

As long as reinhard wont use matter nuke instantly its win for rimuru his first move is Info Analysis.

 

[Fezzih_007]

This is not a enough feat for him to strike him with a matter nuke.

Regulus Attacks are deadly for him to but he didn't instantly use matter nuke either.

Well, he can't use It in that fight. In this wiki, Reinhard only have matter hax with his sword, but din't use It in the fight against Regulus.

As long as reinhard wont use matter nuke instantly its win for rimuru his first move is Info Analysis.

How fast is the Info analysis?

 

[Zabazab]

Regulus Attacks are deadly for him to but he didn't instantly use matter nuke either.

Regulus Corneas is not worthy of the Dragon Sword Reid being drawn against him.

Nearly every time Reinhard has drawn Reid, it has been in a situation where using a massive aoe matter nuke would kill innocent civilians, except for when he kills Puck using the matter nuke in the Unthinkable Present- a situation where he did not need to hold back at all.

How fast is the Info analysis?

Unless both it and power null are FTL then Reinhard speedblitz stomps under unequal speed.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

How fast is the Info analysis?

Tought Based .

Regulus Corneas is not worthy of the Dragon Sword Reid being drawn against him.

Nearly every time Reinhard has drawn Reid, it has been in a situation where using a massive aoe matter nuke would kill innocent civilians, except for when he kills Puck using the matter nuke in the Unthinkable Present- a situation where he did not need to hold back at all.

That's the problem, Rimuru isn't a threat like a puck , I mean puck was planning to destroy the world ( including the Reinhard ) , Rimuru is. Just planning to kill Reinhard.

 

[Fezzih_007]

That's what i saying.

 

[Zabazab]

That's the problem, Rimuru isn't a threat like a puck , I mean puck was planning to destroy the world ( including the Reinhard ) , Rimuru is. Just planning to kill Reinhard.

There is no reason for Reinhard to hold back, so he won't. Reinhard can easily kill Puck without his sword but he chose to matter nuke him because there was no point in not doing that. His intuition would inform him that using matter hax is the best choice to stay alive, since it's the only way he has to kill Rimuru.

 

[Peak]

Can't speak for TenSura, but good matches with Re:Zero top tiers are really hard because even basic info about them is so limited (the story is only ~half-way done)

yep, good Tensura games are hard too

How fast is the Info analysis?

right after the attack is released, it is quite possible that Rimuru will already know about all the qualities and defects of the attack and how to deal with it, it usually absorbs everything, but I don't think it comes close to analyzing or absorbing an FTL attack in time

As I said, equal speed I don't see Rimuru losing, but at unequal speed Reinhard simply bombs Rimuru

Also, it's worth remembering that Rimuru is extremely friendly with humans so I don't think he would try to kill Reinhard on the first move

 

[DeusExMachine001]

There is no reason for Reinhard to hold back, so he won't. Reinhard can easily kill Puck without his sword but he chose to matter nuke him because there was no point in not doing that. His intuition would inform him that using matter hax is the best choice to stay alive, since it's the only way he has to kill Rimuru.

Like I said I dont think reinhards intuition is on that level , that straight says how should he kill his enemy.

 

[Peak]

in other words, it's actually quite possible that even Reinhard's intuition won't activate, unless Reinhard starts off by launching the same matter attack against someone who would probably try to immobilize him

 

[Zabazab]

SBA assumes that they both think the other wants them dead of their own will anyway, and removes social protections.

Like I said I dont think reinhards intuition is on that level , that straight says how should he kill his enemy.

His intuition is such that he always makes the best decision in combat situations to ensure his victory/avoid his death. Even informing him of how and where he should move to avoid death.

He will get a 100% score on a test even if it's not multiple choice, and he will always choose the optimal choice from limited options- to the degree that he cannot lose games like RPS due to "knowing the right answer".

His Divine Blessing of the Sword Saint informs him of his opponents weak points, and points out all of the flaws in their stance/fighting style. It also shows him white lines in the air that he only needs to trace with his sword to surely kill his opponent.

All his intuition needs to do is tell him "Hey getting close to this guy feels like a bad idea." Since approaching = death.

The only big issue with his intuition is that what effect his actions have for those not involved in a fight is unknown to him, so it will not warn him if his actions will kill innocents- something he avoids at all costs.

 

[Fezzih_007]

SBA assumes that they both think the other wants them dead of their own will anyway, and removes social protections.

Not really, It makes then think the opposite party wants to bring them harm, not nescessary killing. And considering that Rimuru is a pretty chill guy, he is not going to have this much bloodlust to make Reinhard think he wants to kill him.

He will get a 100% score on a test even if it's not multiple choice, and he will always choose the optimal choice from limited options- to the degree that he cannot lose games like RPS due to "knowing the right answer".

He already read the profile, no need to do that.

His Divine Blessing of the Sword Saint informs him of his opponents weak points, and points out all of the flaws in their stance/fighting style. It also shows him white lines in the air that he only needs to trace with his sword to surely kill his opponent.

Just work like that If the opponent is less skilled than him. And not sure why you bring this up, since that blessing would be good in a CC situation.

All his intuition needs to do is tell him "Hey getting close to this guy feels like a bad idea." Since approaching = death.

Not vague at all lol, It still could just make him aphroach him anyway, but more carefull. Not sure why you think Reinhard would go for the kill just because Rimuru wants to harm him.

His intuition is such that he always makes the best decision in combat situations to ensure his victory/avoid his death.

While i agree, you gonna need more Scan to prove that, because the example you show-

Even informing him of how and where he should move to avoid death.

-is basically enchanched senses, this a thing that almost everyone have in this wiki.
You gonna need more prove of his intuiton in battle, because that's kinda vague.

 

[Zabazab]

Not really, It makes then think the opposite party wants to bring them harm, not nescessary killing. And considering that Rimuru is a pretty chill guy, he is not going to have this much bloodlust to make Reinhard think he wants to kill him.

Being unprotected by social conventions makes choosing to kill Rimuru the most likely option considering how strong Rimuru is. It's not like Reinhard has a no-kill rule.

Just work like that If the opponent is less skilled than him. And not sure why you bring this up, since that blessing would be good in a CC situation.

Reinhard is more skilled yes. And it functions in every aspect related to combat, not just CQ or with swords.

Not vague at all lol, It still could just make him aphroach him anyway, but more carefull. Not sure why you think Reinhard would go for the kill just because Rimuru wants to harm him.

"Approaching would be bad" is far more vague than it telling him "A few metres behind you is a wall of air that will kill you- you should slip past the enemy's right side while making a defensive strike." in his fight with Regulus.

I'm lowballing his broken intuition.

And Reinhard is not going to be merciful when Rimuru is so strong, he isn't the type to underestimate an opponent.

While i agree, you gonna need more Scan to prove that, because the example you show is basically enchanched senses, this a thing that almost everyone have in this wiki.
You gonna need more prove of his intuiton in battle, because that's kinda vague.

Do you know how Regulus' Authority works?

Sensing stationary air that has been cut off from space-time to sidestep the current plain of existence, and then immediately knowing where to move/how to act while surrounded by said air to avoid death is not possible with enhanced senses.

It's easily extrasensory and bordering on precognition.


Under unequal speed this is a speedblitz stomp for Reinhard, and under equal speed Rimuru can seemingly just turn off all of Reinhard's abilities with a thought.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

I'm lowballing his broken intuition.

And Reinhard is not going to be merciful when Rimuru is so strong, he isn't the type to underestimate an opponent.

As much as I know Reinhard godly instincts didn't work against Regulus' strike and he got killed.

 

[Zabazab]

As much as I know Reinhard godly instincts didn't work against Regulus' strike and he got killed.

He allowed Regulus to kill him in exchange for releasing his hostage (he just resurrected himself afterwards anyway) and he even deactivated several Blessings in order to allow Regulus to hit him.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Can you send me scan , Image that shows that Reinhards intuition telling him to how to kill his enemies.

Other then Sword Saint

 

[Peak]

SBA assumes that they both think the other wants them dead of their own will anyway, and removes social protections.

Not really, It makes then think the opposite party wants to bring them harm, not nescessary killing. And considering that Rimuru is a pretty chill guy, he is not going to have this much bloodlust to make Reinhard think he wants to kill him.

It's like he said, is it really in Reinhard's character to launch a matter attack on someone pacifist like Rimuru? Will intuition really work against someone it will only try to immobilize? Beings with very keen intuition who can sense danger from miles away in Tensura did not treat Rimuru as someone who should be decimated, is there a fight in Re:zero that shows how Reinhard acts against an enemy that doesn't want to kill him?

 

[DeusExMachine001]

It's like he said, is it really in Reinhard's character to launch a matter attack on someone pacifist like Rimuru? Will intuition really work against someone it will only try to immobilize? Beings with very keen intuition who can sense danger from miles away in Tensura did not treat Rimuru as someone who should be decimated, is there a fight in Re:zero that shows how Reinhard acts against an enemy that doesn't want to kill him?

Reinhard didn't launch a immediate Matter nuke on enemy's that tried to kill him.

 

[Zabazab]

Can you send me scan , Image that shows that Reinhards intuition telling him to how to kill his enemies.

Other then Sword Saint

That's not how his intuition works.

His Intuition is mainly defensive, it informs him in order to avoid danger, ensures he doesn't take actions that could lead to his death. The Divine Blessing of the Sword Saint is the mainly offensive ability that shows him how to kill an opponent via tracing white rays.

There has been no one in the story so far- other than Regulus- who Reinhard has fought that is capable of killing him anyway (and Regulus is invincible so he has no way to be killed), so there has been no need to kill someone in a specific way since his power is so overwhelming.

It's like he said, is it really in Reinhard's character to launch a matter attack on someone pacifist like Rimuru? Will intuition really work against someone it will only try to immobilize? Beings with very keen intuition who can sense danger from miles away in Tensura did not treat Rimuru as someone who should be decimated, is there a fight in Re:zero that shows how Reinhard acts against an enemy that doesn't want to kill him?

Reinhard does not know he is a pacifist- he assumes under SBA that Rimuru wants to gravely harm him of his own will. Reinhard himself is not incredibly merciful- he'll spare petty bandits sure, but anyone who is strong and unprotected by laws or social norms he won't spare.

Reinhard did matter nuke Puck, who Reinhard can easily kill without a sword, because his existence would destroy the world. This is in fact the only situation where he could use it as everyone was dead for kms all around.

Reinhard didn't launch a immediate Matter nuke on enemy's that tried to kill him.

He can't normally use the matter nuke because:
A) The Dragon Sword Reid refuses to be drawn against any "unworthy" opponent.
B) He is unwilling to use such a large-scale attack when in proximity to innocent people. He has been in close proximity to innocents every single time he has ever had Reid drawn, except for when he fought Puck in the unthinkable present.

 

[Peak]

Reinhard does not know he is a pacifist- he assumes under SBA that Rimuru wants to gravely harm him of his own will. Reinhard himself is not incredibly merciful- he'll spare petty bandits sure, but anyone who is strong and unprotected by laws or social norms he won't spare.

Reinhard doesn't know, but would his intuition really guide him to use matter nuke against an opponent who won't try to kill him? If the mere fact that the opponent is a threat to him already triggers his intuition and makes him launch his best move, then I will agree with Rimuru's defeat at uneven speed

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Reinhard did matter nuke Puck, who Reinhard can easily kill without a sword, because his existence would destroy the world. This is in fact the only situation where he could use it as everyone was dead for kms all around

Was it immediate nuke, no because Reinhard always tries to understand his enemy even if its puck who wants to destroy the world and kill everybody including Reinhard. then Reinhard used his nuke after beating him to death and talking to him little bit.

Brief and intermittent, it was difficult to make out what that sound may be.
Difficult, simply because it was so hard to believe that it was precisely what it sounded like.

[Puck: Kh, kheheh……haha, hhahaha!]

[Reinhard: ――What’s so funny?]

With his throat trembling, and on the verge of death, Puck’s face twisted as he burst into laughter.
Even with his life and death in another’s hands, and having had his actions impeded, Puck was laughing. Unable to fathom his meaning, Reinhard asked this question.
But Puck only seemed to find his reaction even more hilarious.

[Puck: What’s so funny? It’s funny, of course it’s funny. Reinhard, you…… no, what would this upstart possibly know?]

[Reinhard: …………]

[Puck: I remember now. How it was meant to be. It took me long enough to understand it. And, having understood, when I saw how you still don’t know, it’s so funny I couldn’t help myself]

There was something different about the tone and volume of that statement that was completely unlike Puck.
For Subaru, who had plenty of memories of seeing Puck in his cat-form, this was the first time he had heard such malice in his words.

This was different from his loathing towards Subaru and Petelgeuse after Emilia was killed. At that time, Puck was still Puck.
This time, the laughter directed at Reinhard was nothing like what he had ever seen from Puck before, but something else entirely――

[Reinhard: ……I will make sure that there are no more casualties. If you want someone to hate, then hate me]

[Puck: I don’t hate you, Reinhard. You are a hero. And a hero has a hero’s role to fill. I don’t resent or fault you for following your creed]

[Reinhard: ――――]

[Puck: You are a hero, Reinhard. ――A hero is all you will ever be]

At the end of the end, he uttered the most spiteful remark of them all.

 

[Zabazab]

Reinhard doesn't know, but would his intuition really guide him to use matter nuke against an opponent who won't try to kill him? If the mere fact that the opponent is a threat to him already triggers his intuition and makes him launch his best move, then I will agree with Rimuru's defeat at uneven speed

Oh the thing about intuition isn't about whether he'll use a matter nuke or not- whether it's his first or his 30th choice to use it doesn't matter, since he is thinking and acting at FTL speed. He will go for the kill in character however, and he tends to pick the optimal choice.

His intuition would just tell him not to approach Rimuru since his aura would kill him, so Rimuru would have no chance to act.

Was it immediate nuke, no because Reinhard always tries to understand his enemy even if its puck who wants to destroy the world and kill everybody including Reinhard. then Reinhard used his nuke after beating him to death and talking to him little bit.

Reinhard and Puck are acquaintances, so Reinhard didn't kill him immediately. Puck also wasn't trying to kill Reinhard, since he knows he cannot kill Reinhard. Puck was being a threat to the world in order to get Reinhard to kill him anyway, just a form of suicide since Spirits cannot die on their own.

Under SBA, Reinhard has no reason to show mercy and no reason to talk things out- he didn't try to understand the assassins sent after him in Vollachia, he just killed them.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Being unprotected by social conventions makes choosing to kill Rimuru the most likely option considering how strong Rimuru is. It's not like Reinhard has a no-kill rule.

1-Every kill count for Reinhard until now is bad guys or murderous, he always go for the kill If the character is dangerous to people, under SBA, he sees Reinhard as a guy that wants to fight him, not enough to Death sentence.
2- How Reinhard is gonna know how exactly powerfull is Rimuru? Like, his Sword draws every time It detects a powerfull enemy (Which already shoots the Idea of Rimuru not being able to Info analysis him, but okay) but Reinhard is not gonna be like "Ok, i gonna kill that guy just because he is powerfull" like, when did Reinhard even do that?
3- So Reinhard don't kill people just because is against the law? Instead of him being a good person? Like what's your argument here? Since when Rein don't kill people because is against the law?

Reinhard is more skilled yes.

Why?

And it functions in every aspect related to combat, not just CQ or with swords.

Scans

"Approaching would be bad" is far more vague than it telling him "A few metres behind you is a wall of air that will kill you- you should slip past the enemy's right side while making a defensive strike." in his fight with Regulus.

I'm lowballing his broken intuition.

No, you highballing actually, because his intuiton never as able to tell How strong a opponent is.
And again, just telling you that you about to be attacked is super normal, where the attack is coming from is whatever.

And Reinhard is not going to be merciful when Rimuru is so strong, he isn't the type to underestimate an opponent.

Why he would't be mercifull? Just because he is strong? When did ever bê part of Reinhard character?

Do you know how Regulus' Authority works?

Yep, stop things time, pretty cool ability.

Sensing stationary air that has been cut off from space-time to sidestep the current plain of existence, and then immediately knowing where to move/how to act while surrounded by said air to avoid death is not possible with enhanced senses.

Is it is actually. Anyway this not my point, i agree with you, but your example is still just his intuiton telling his about to be attacked, gonna need more good proof about his potency.

It's easily extrasensory and bordering on precognition.

Sure.

Under unequal speed this is a speedblitz stomp for Reinhard, and under equal speed Rimuru can seemingly just turn off all of Reinhard's abilities with a thought.

No, Reinhard still need to draw his sword to attack, charge the attack, and shoot. Rimuru could defend himself at the time.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

His intuition would just tell him not to approach Rimuru since his aura would kill him, so Rimuru would have no chance to act.

Rimuru can always shut down reins abilities.

 

[Zabazab]

TLDR

Actually this isn't even relevant due to being an argument about what will happen under unequal speed. This match is under equal speed and I have already given my opinion on that result. I'm not arguing about that anymore.

All I have to say is that the idea that in-character Reinhard would not kill a dangerous person who is unprotected by law/social norms (eg. Witch Cultists, those random Vollachian assassins, his own damn Grandmother) is a misunderstanding of his character.

Rimuru can always shut down reins abilities.

At the speed of thought, yes? Reinhard is FTL. Rimuru is MHS. Rimuru will not be able to even think before Reinhard has tried to kill him 200 different ways from 2km away.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

At the speed of thought, yes? Reinhard is FTL. Rimuru is MHS. Rimuru will not be able to even think before Reinhard has tried to kill him 200 different ways from 2km away.

Rimuru's Power Null is Tought based and I already sent you the message why Reinhard wouldn't use his matter hax , and it's not in character for Reinhard to matter nuke rimuru from 2km away, I can send you the website if you want

Rimuru's Aura range should be city level which is more then 2km radius

 

[Zabazab]

Rimuru's Aura range should be city level which is more then 2km radius

If his aura is >2km then this is a stomp 100% of the time since Reinhard gets instantly decimated by the radiation/corruption/mutation effects of Rimuru's aura.

This matchup is a stomp and does not work.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

If his aura is >2km then this is a stomp 100% of the time since Reinhard gets instantly decimated by the radiation/corruption/mutation effects of Rimuru's aura.

This matchup is a stomp and does not work.

Sorry, I checked the wrong key His Aura range is hundreds of meters I think.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Actually this isn't even relevant due to being an argument about what will happen under unequal speed. This match is under equal speed and I have already given my opinion on that result. I'm not arguing about that anymore.

Never trought of using TLDR to summary a comment, i think this is actually better to anyone reading this thread, i gonna start doing that.

Anyway, If you don't argue anymore that's fine.

All I have to say is that the idea that in-character Reinhard would not kill a dangerous person who is unprotected by law/social norms (eg. Witch Cultists, those random Vollachian assassins, his own damn Grandmother) is a misunderstanding of his character

That's the problem, he don't know that Rimuru is dangerous, he just know he is strong and is want to fight him, all the example above is just people that he knows is evil or killers, he don't have enough information to tell If Rimuru need to be killed.

Anyway, he could probally start with matter nuke, but also could start with aprhocing him, and because of FRA, If he try the former, Rimuru Will infoanalysis him, absorbs Rein attacks, and beat defeat him using one of his hax. And the latter is the same.

 

[Peak]

I honestly don't see how Rimuru loses at equal speed, does Reinhard have any wincon?

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Speed Unequal : Rimuru because I dont think Reinhard is going to use Matter Nuke

Speed Equalized: Rimuru because, Aura , Power Null , Absorbation , Rimuru FRA

I think we need staffs input.

 

[Zabazab]

Overall I think under unequal speed it's a speed-stomp, and under equal speed Rimuru just instantly removes any of Reinhard's wincons 100% of the time. (which might also be a stomp? I'm not sure about the line between easy win and stomp)

I hate being a killjoy and ofc I can't/won't stop people making threads with them, but the Re:Zero top tiers are just so vague and have so little info due to the story being only halfway done that I kinda just groan to myself when a matchup with them is made. Their profiles will be incomplete for years.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Overall I think under unequal speed it's a speed-stomp, and under equal speed Rimuru just instantly removes any of Reinhard's wincons 100% of the time. (which might also be a stomp? I'm not sure about the line between easy win and stomp)

I hate being a killjoy and ofc I can't/won't stop people making threads with them, but the Re:Zero top tiers are just so vague and have so little info due to the story being only halfway done that I kinda just groan to myself when a matchup with them is made. Their profiles will be incomplete for years.

Do you know , who else hate being a killjoy. >

 

[Fezzih_007]

Do you know , who else hate being a killjoy. >

My mom.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I see arguements about Reinhard killing Rimuru being out of character.
Reminder that Reinhard has never really stopped to not kill his opponents if its allowed. I understand that you might view him as this merciful god but dude didnt even hesitate to kill his own grandma, no way is he not instantly going for the optimal attack against what he views as an imminent threat to everything he stands for via SBA

 

[Catpija]

dude didnt even hesitate to kill his own grandma

 

[DeusExMachine001]

I see arguements about Reinhard killing Rimuru being out of character.
Reminder that Reinhard has never really stopped to not kill his opponents if its allowed. I understand that you might view him as this merciful god but dude didnt even hesitate to kill his own grandma, no way is he not instantly going for the optimal attack against what he views as an imminent threat to everything he stands for via SBA

That's not my argument, my argument is basically Reinhard wont use matter hax instantly and He never used instantly.

 

[Zabazab]

That's not my argument, my argument is basically Reinhard wont use matter hax instantly and He never used instantly.

Under unequal speed it doesn't matter if it's his 1st or 100th move, Reinhard could try killing Rimuru hundreds of ways before Rimuru even processes what happens. (FTL vs MHS)

Also he's never been in a situation where he would use it instantly.

Reinhard has drawn Reid 4 times on-page: Vs Cecilus in EX 4; Vs Puck in the Unthinkable Present; Vs Theresia in Arc 5; and Vs Cecilus in Wrath IF.

For EX 4, Arc 5, and Wrath IF, he was in a situation where nuking the area with matter hax would be extremely out of character, as innocents were in close proximity.

In the Unthinkable Present, not only were he and Puck were acquainted, but knights are taught to respect Great Spirits. When he realised Puck was doing this of his own selfish motives, he immediately pulled out the matter nuke.

He did not need to use it, he could easily have killed Puck even without his sword- but he chose not to hold back because he did not have to, there were no innocents for kilometres all around who could be caught up in it. If he is in a situation where he does not need to, then he will not hold back.