Reinhard Van Astrea vs Pre demon lord Rimuru

[Fezzih_007]

we are talking about his matter hax which he does use all the time after entering SBA with reid, its his most common move alongside slashing his opponent down

Can you explain to me how his matter sword beam is his first move?

 

[Greatsage13th]

Can you explain to me how his matter sword beam is his first move?

He did that to the old hockey puck.

 

[Zabazab]

we are talking about his matter hax which he does use all the time after entering SBA with reid, its his most common move alongside slashing his opponent down

I think it's significant to point out that in every instance of Reinhard wielding Reid bar one, it has been in situations where using large-scale AOE matter hax is impossible in-character.

EX Ceci was in a requested duel in an arena, Theresia was in a populated city, Wrath Ceci was a rescue mission for Emilia.

Puck was in a situation where everyone was dead for kilometres all around so he could let loose.

 

[Fezzih_007]

He did that to the old hockey puck.

Yeah, but like Puck was a rampaging monster, that was freezing everyone in his way, so Reinhard just killed him Very fast to avoid more deaths.

What is compelling Reinhard to the same with Rimuru?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Can you explain to me how his matter sword beam is his first move?

Reinhard vs Puck right after his negotiation is the closest description we have to SBA
and zabazab just mentioned the other point...
anyways, there is also the fact that his godly instincts would probably tell him that using his matter hax would be more useful

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yeah, but like Puck was a rampaging monster, that was freezing everyone in his way, so Reinhard just killed him Very fast to avoid more deaths.

What is compelling Reinhard to the same with Rimuru?

partially incorrect, puck and Reinhard had a bit of negotiation where Reinhard tried to beat puck up a bit and knock some sense into him, when that failed he went into SBA and killed him in one shot

already pointed out his godly instincts

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yeah, but like Puck was a rampaging monster, that was freezing everyone in his way, so Reinhard just killed him Very fast to avoid more deaths.

What is compelling Reinhard to the same with Rimuru?

Didn't Puck already kill everyone in the area?

 

[Zabazab]

For all the claims that Reinhard's Blessings are wanked, the truly most wanked ability he has is his Intuition

Anyway if atomic matter hax can destroy Rimuru's "core" then i agree with Reinhard winning.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Didn't Puck already kill everyone in the area?

Yeah, i think, so?

Wrath Ceci was a rescue mission for Emilia

You could just said he din't actually want to kill Cecilus, because i don't see How being a rescue mission prevents him for nuking, he could just aim to the side, and do a small explosion.

Reinhard vs Puck right after his negotiation is the closest description we have to SBA

Not sure what you talking about, can you clarify? Why is the closest thing of being SBA?

anyways, there is also the fact that his godly instincts would probably tell him that using his matter hax would be more useful

Not in his first move, no.

puck and Reinhard had a bit of negotiation where Reinhard tried to beat puck up a bit and knock some sense into him, when that failed he went into SBA and killed him in one shot

Don't see How that's answers my question:

What is compelling Reinhard to the same with Rimuru?

And how Reinhard asking Puck why he is destroying the word count as a "negotiation".

anyways, there is also the fact that his godly instincts would probably tell him that using his matter hax would be more useful

Is not that i don't think he will use his matter hax, i just asking why you think would be his first move, even trought Rimuru don't see a opponent Reinhard would use the matter hax first move.

 

[Zabazab]

You could just said he din't actually want to kill Cecilus, because i don't see How being a rescue mission prevents him for nuking, he could just aim to the side, and do a small explosion.

What? His goal was to rescue Emilia and exterminate The Purge King/Pleiades.

The matter hax nuke we see him use- the only example of it- was bare-minimum tens of kilometres in radius. Assuming he can make it smaller is just that- an assumption.

That would catch Emilia- and likely many settlements- in the blast.

He was inarguably going for the kill against Cecilus since he ended up covered in bloody wounds and he killed Halibel and Puck (again, not one-shotting them with matter nuke)

He was also nerfed to an unknown degree in Wrath IF.

Is not that i don't think he will use his matter hax, i just asking why you think would be his first move, even trought Rimuru don't see a opponent Reinhard would use the matter hax first move.

The argument seems to be that his intuition will inform him that approaching Rimuru will be bad (due to passive aura) and thus he will used the ranged matter nuke.

 

[CodeCCLL]

If it's particles, I assume Reinhard can affect them with matter hax, but if the particles themselves must be totally destroyed then idk if he can (I could be wrong)

Information Particles = Information Type 2. Reinhard can't even interact.

 

[CodeCCLL]

he has low high regen negation plus his matter hax will take him out in one shot and Rimuru does not have low godly in this key

It all depends on Reinhard's level of matter manipulation.

Rimuru can even be regenerated from its molecules.

Also what is the range of Reinhard's intuition?

 

[CodeCCLL]

It's just molecular hax. What makes you think this is the atomic level?

• Matter Manipulation with Reid (Recreated the world after Puck froze trees, forest and buildings etc, at absolute zero and turned them to dust, completely erased all traces of Puck from the world[23])

It can only turn it into dust. It's just the molecular level. Rimuru can easily be regenerated from this.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Not sure what you talking about, can you clarify? Why is the closest thing of being SBA?

Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences. The characters will assume their opponents have not been forced into battle. They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law.

Sounds familiar?
Reinhard was basically in SBA as he used his matter hax

And how Reinhard asking Puck why he is destroying the word count as a "negotiation".

Are you really gonna nitpick what i decided to call their conversation?

 

[Zabazab]

It's just molecular hax. What makes you think this is the atomic level?

• Matter Manipulation with Reid (Recreated the world after Puck froze trees, forest and buildings etc, at absolute zero and turned them to dust, completely erased all traces of Puck from the world[23])

It can only turn it into dust. It's just the molecular level. Rimuru can easily be regenerated from this.

Reinhard reversed the freezing of a large chunk of a country at Absolute Zero by Puck, restoring it to it's former state.

Absolute Zero is the point of cold at which enthalpy and entropy hit their minimum level. It is the ultimate form of freezing and in the theoretical situation that someone is exposed to it, their body will be frozen at the atomic level before collapsing under their own mass since the loss of energy causes the atoms to lose their cohesiveness.

That is atomic matter hax.

Also what is the range of Reinhard's intuition?

There is no specified range, but a combination of his own superhuman instinct and several Divine Blessings warn of danger that is an immediate threat to himself, if he is about to enter/is in Rimuru's range then it should warn him.

Information Particles = Information Type 2. Reinhard can't even interact.

Looking at the scan for his Type 6 immortality, it sounds like he needs to transfer his core to another body before being killed, or at least wouldn't survive as just his core/info particles with no slime body.

That, and given the vast range & aoe of Reinhard's matter nuke, any body he physically transfers to would be caught in the blast anyway.

If I got any of that type 6/core stuff wrong let me know.

 

[CodeCCLL]

That is atomic matter hax.

What does the freezing of absolute zero at the atomic level have to do with matter manipulation?

According to his profile, Matter Manipulation literally turns his opponents to dust.
Rimuru can be regenerated from this.

Reinhard reversed the freezing of a large chunk of a country at Absolute Zero by Puck, restoring it to it's former state.

That is atomic matter hax.


There is no specified range, but a combination of his own superhuman instinct and several Divine Blessings warn of danger that is an immediate threat to himself, if he is about to enter/is in Rimuru's range then it should warn him.


Looking at the scan for his Type 6 immortality, it sounds like he needs to transfer his core to another body before being killed, or at least wouldn't survive as just his core/info particles with no slime body.

That, and given the vast range & aoe of Reinhard's matter nuke, any body he physically transfers to would be caught in the blast anyway.

If I got any of that type 6/core stuff wrong let me know.

If Reinhard's attacks are bombarding the entire area, yes she can destroy clones.

İmmo6 works as you say.

 

[Zabazab]

What does the freezing of absolute zero at the atomic level have to do with matter manipulation?

According to his profile, Matter Manipulation literally turns his opponents to dust.
Rimuru can be regenerated from this.

Reinhard did not turn his opponent to dust- he reversed the freezing of the world at Absolute Zero (destroying the surroundings at the atomic level), and "erased all traces" of his opponent.

This reversal of Absolute Zero is his matter manipulation, which to reverse the atomic level effect of Absolute Zero, must be capable of manipulating matter at the atomic level.

 

[Catpija]

Does his matter hax also travels at FTL speed?

 

[Zabazab]

Does his matter hax also travels at FTL speed?

Presumably yes, due to him swinging his sword (FTL combat speed) and the recreation of the frozen world happening in the same instant.

The next instant, Reinhard raised the Dragon Sword above his head, and there was a single flash of light― the sky was split, cracks ran throughout the very air itself; the earth crumbled; mana swirled in a vortex; and along the arc of his slash, the World... slid.

The moment after that cascading slash settled down, the white, cold air covering the world... recovered.

The slide in the World was repaired, the parts that had become a swirling vortex of mana reverted to their proper forms, flowers budded forth from the shattered earth, and peace spread throughout the cracked air. From the sky, dazzling sunrays poured down.

The slash of the Sword Saint had both ended the World and simultaneously brought about its re-creation― and the enormous beast that had been bathed in that slash had been annihilated from the World without a trace.

There were not even side effects of the destruction to be seen; that a battle had even taken place seemed like nothing but a dream.

 

[Fezzih_007]

What? His goal was to rescue Emilia and exterminate The Purge King/Pleiades.

Yeah, i din't deny that, i just saying If Cecilus survived the raid, Reinhard din't Go for the kill.

The matter hax nuke we see him use- the only example of it- was bare-minimum tens of kilometres in radius. Assuming he can make it smaller is just that- an assumption.

Is not trought, since he does use a smaller area attack on the loot house.


If you say is because of Reid, there's no reason to believe he can't hold back just because of a different sword.

That would catch Emilia- and likely many settlements- in the blast.

Aim to the other side of the building.

He was inarguably going for the kill against Cecilus since he ended up covered in bloody wounds and he killed Halibel and Puck (again, not one-shotting them with matter nuke)

In the end, he just break his two swords, and Cecilus got away, he most probally is not going for the kill.

The argument seems to be that his intuition will inform him that approaching Rimuru will be bad (due to passive aura) and thus he will used the ranged matter nuke.

Weird argument, since that's not how his intuiton is being described on the wiki. His intuiton don't just inform him..

Sounds familiar?
Reinhard was basically in SBA as he used his matter hax

No? Puck is trying to destroy the world, and Rimuru is trying to harm him, not at all similar.

Are you really gonna nitpick what i decided to call their conversation?

Yes, because you also said.

puck and Reinhard had a bit of negotiation where Reinhard tried to beat puck up a bit and knock some sense into him, when that failed he went into SBA and killed him in one shot

But If you din't mean that, sure then.

Does his matter hax also travels at FTL speed

Yes, here is a visual Scan for that.

 

[Zabazab]

Yeah, i din't deny that, i just saying If Cecilus survived the raid, Reinhard din't Go for the kill.

Cecilus was comparable to Reinhard in Wrath IF (3 year timeskip + Reinhard getting nerfed by Pleiades), he was able to gravely wound Reinhard and still escape with his life because he was Just That Strong.

Reinhard killed Halibel and Puck, as well as like 20 fodder soldiers he vapourized. Denying he was going for the kill against Cecilus here is a bit silly.

If you say is because of Reid, there's no reason to believe he can't hold back just because of a different sword.

You have read this scene, yes? He doesn't use any matter hax or Reid here. This is pure ap + a little space hax for good measure.

On this wiki, Reinhard's matter hax is an ability exclusive to his "wielding Reid" key.

Aim to the other side of the building.

See my previous point that the idea he could use his matter hax without nuking the area is an assumption with little support. Besides he doesn't need hax to destroy part of a building.

Weird argument, since that's not how his intuiton is being described on the wiki. His intuiton don't just inform him..

Well it is how it is described in the story:

Lightly, Regulus patted the place where he had been struck by the sword, and tilted his head.
Reinhard, alerted by this motion, tossed aside the scraps in his hands and made to leap backward at a wide angle―— just as he prepared to jump, his feet froze in place.
Reinhard’s superhuman intuition.
It informed him of dire, imminent threats to his self, and preemptively detected incoming attacks. His keen instincts told him that he could not dodge to the rear. He immediately straightened and began to search for alternative routes.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Cecilus was comparable to Reinhard in Wrath IF (3 year timeskip + Reinhard getting nerfed by Pleiades), he was able to gravely wound Reinhard and still escape with his life because he was Just That Strong.

I say he spared Cecilus because he was kinda hesitant to fight him, and because he also knows who Regulus is, he spared him in the basis of him knowing who he is.

Reinhardt: “…Cecilus-dono, I have already fought with you before. That match was, to me, of great significance. Why is it you…”

Cecilus: “Of course, if my body can wield a sword―― we may only meet in a life-or-death match.”

Anyway, this point is moot anyway, since there's other reason to why Reinhard don't just nuke him.
Reinhard when he uses the matter hax stay stopped for some 3 seconds before using his Slash. Not really a good strategy against a opponent as fast as him.
So he don't use his Hand nuke because that would left himself open for a attack.

You have read this scene, yes? He doesn't use any matter hax or Reid here. This is pure ap + a little space hax for good measure.

Considering that he does this attacks in the same way, being gathering mana of his surrodings, saying they different techniques and he can't output his power is weird. Don't see How being two attacks with different Hax counts here, since they perfomed bassicaly the same.

On this wiki, Reinhard's matter hax is an ability exclusive to his "wielding Reid" key.

Not really my point.

Well it is how it is described in the story:

These Scan just say his intuiton can warn where attacks are coming for him, don't say that It can tell If Rimuru have a passive aura surroding him that can harm him.


Anyway, It says on the page Rimuru have absorption, so he probally can absorbs Rein beam.

 

[Zabazab]

I say he spared Cecilus because he was kinda hesitant to fight him, and because he also knows who Regulus is, he spared him in the basis of him knowing who he is.

Didn't stop him from trying to kill Subaru and killing Puck, besides the author said Cecilus escaped after losing his swords- he wasn't spared, he just got away.

Anyway, this point is moot anyway, since there's other reason to why Reinhard don't just nuke him.
Reinhard when he uses the matter hax stay stopped for some 3 seconds before using his Slash. Not really a good strategy against a opponent as fast as him.
So he don't use his Hand nuke because that would left himself open for a attack.

Cinematic time I assume. Reinhard thinks and swings his sword at FTL speed, and if he had as much control over his might as you suggest, he could have just surgically nuked Pleiades from kilometres away.

Considering that he does this attacks in the same way, being gathering mana of his surrodings, saying they different techniques and he can't output his power is weird. Don't see How being two attacks with different Hax counts here, since they perfomed bassicaly the same.

Because one is performed with a shitty rusted old blade, and the other is performed with the strongest holy sword in the world. It is objective that Reinhard wielding Reid > base Reinhard.

They are different attacks with different hax and scale/effects. Evidence suggests the matter nuke can only be deployed if he does not have to hold back.

It visually looking similar in one form of adaptation does not support the idea that he can use small-scale matter hax when it has never been shown.

These Scan just say his intuiton can warn where attacks are coming for him, don't say that It can tell If Rimuru have a passive aura surroding him that can harm him.

His intuition would warn him not to get close to the enemy. It's not as specific as telling him what it is or how it works, but "Hey I don't feel so good about doing X" is within the limits of his superhuman intuition imo.

Anyway, It says on the page Rimuru have absorption, so he probally can absorbs Rein beam.

It's not really a beam, it's a FTL "wave" of matter hax that travels in all directions from Reinhard in a roughly expanding cylindrical shape.

 

[Fezzih_007]

It's not really a beam, it's a FTL "wave" of matter hax that travels in all directions from Reinhard in a roughly expanding cylindrical shape.

I know is not a beam, i just forgot that energy wave is a thing that i can use to describe things. Also, why the long description?

Anyway, i think this is a stomp right? Reinhard is FTL, while Rimuru is only relastivic+.
Why speed is not equal?

 

[Zabazab]

I'm not sure, Satella gave an argument for it not being a stomp but I'm not knowledgable enough about Rimuru to know if it is or not

 

[Fezzih_007]

Looks Satella argument for not being a stomp is that Reinhard likes to go on CC.

2, Reinhard likes to go for cc a lot even when Reid is drawn, most of the times he chooses to fight closesly rather than nuking them. The only reàson he is more likely to go for his nuke here is becuz of his godly intuition. Rimuru has a valid wincon which is highly probable

 

[Fezzih_007]

I really wonder how does he try to have his cake and eat It too.

 

[Zabazab]

So the argument seems to be that he's more likely to use matter nuke, but isn't guaranteed to not approach? And approaching would give Rimuru the advantage due to aura etc.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Ok, so this sounds more like a Inco then, because Reinhard could approach Rimuru and dies or he could just try to nuke Rimuru, so both have equal chances of winning... I think, watch two seasons of slime two years Ago, i don't remember everything he can do.

 

[CodeCCLL]

To be sure, are Reinhard's abilities magic based?

 

[Zabazab]

Ok, so this sounds more like a Inco then, because Reinhard could approach Rimuru and dies or he could just try to nuke Rimuru, so both have equal chances of winning... I think, watch two seasons of slime two years Ago, i don't remember everything he can do.

Eh, intuition makes him choosing not to approach more likely imo

To be sure, are Reinhard's abilities magic based?

Nah, he is physically incapable of using any magic

 

[Fezzih_007]

To be sure, are Reinhard's abilities magic based?

Well, his divine protection are magical in some way, and can be affect by Magic iirc, but he also have resistance to It.

Eh, intuition makes him choosing not to approach more likely imo

Not sure about that.

 

[PhantomØ4]

His intuition def makes it more likely, if it’s who wins more out of 100 possible outcomes it def helps.

 

[Fezzih_007]

His intuition def makes it more likely, if it’s who wins more out of 100 possible outcomes it def helps.

Not sure about that²

Still seems he could approach anyway with equal chances of not happening.

Either way, since Speed is not equal, this is probally a stomp still.

 

[Zabazab]

Not sure about that²

But it does make him not approaching more likely. It's between 2 choices- approach or do not approach- 50/50.

His intuition makes him more likely to make the right choice, so that should flip the odds into Reinhard's favour.

It's so good that he is unable to lose rock-paper-scissors because he "knows the right answer", and he will always get 100% on a test even if it isn't multiple choice.

It's not flawless, but it's still pretty op and will make him choosing optimal actions in the situation more likely.

Either way, since Speed is not equal, this is probally a stomp still.

You should ask Satella if there's a reason unequal speed isn't a stomp, and then if you disagree just suggest equal speed so this match can be viable.

 

[Fezzih_007]

But it does make him not approaching more likely. It's between 2 choices- approach or do not approach- 50/50.

His intuition makes him more likely to make the right choice, so that should flip the odds into Reinhard's favour.

It's so good that he is unable to lose rock-paper-scissors because he "knows the right answer", and he will always get 100% on a test even if it isn't multiple choice.

It's not flawless, but it's still pretty op and will make him choosing optimal actions in the situation more likely.

If the argument is that Reinhard intuition is gonna make he choose the most optimal choice, this is a stomp then.

There's no scenario that Reinhard is just gonna ignore his intuiton, and go in CC If his intuiton is telling him not to do so, Reinhard is not stupid.

You should ask Satella if there's a reason unequal speed isn't a stomp, and then if you disagree just suggest equal speed so this match can be viable.

When he comes back, sure.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

For the speed, i was under the assumption that Reinhard having a slower travel speed would give Rimuru the advantage however I will equalize speed if there is a general agreement on it. Although can Reinhard still hit Rimuru if speed is equalized?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

If the argument is that Reinhard intuition is gonna make he choose the most optimal choice, this is a stomp then.

There's no scenario that Reinhard is just gonna ignore his intuiton, and go in CC If his intuiton is telling him not to do so, Reinhard is not stupid.

Reinhard did get hit once by Regulus when his leg got blown off, so he clearly doesnt follow it 100% of the time. I did say In the end it is an intuiton and Reinhard can actively not follow it

 

[PhantomØ4]

Reinhard is way too fast for Rimuru as it stands with FTL travel speed. He can cross the distance before Rimuru can realize anything happened.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Reinhard is way too fast for Rimuru as it stands with FTL travel speed. He can cross the distance before Rimuru can realize anything happened.

he has MH+ travel speed and FTL combat speed