Reinhard Van Astrea vs Pre demon lord Rimuru

[Fezzih_007]

Under unequal speed it doesn't matter if it's his 1st or 100th move, Reinhard could try killing Rimuru hundreds of ways before Rimuru even processes what happens. (FTL vs MHS)

What other was Reinhard can kill Rimuru besides the Matter Hax? Because If he try to do anything else, he get powernulled.

Also he's never been in a situation where he would use it instantly.

Les't see...

Vs Cecilus in EX 4;

They pretty having a spar there, and he din't need to kill Cecilus.

Vs Theresia in Arc 5;

He actually din't need to do so, he could just easily beat her in close combat.

Vs Cecilus in Wrath IF

Reinhard when he uses the matter hax stay stopped for some 3 seconds before using his Slash. Not really a good strategy against a opponent as fast as him.
So he don't use his Hand nuke because that would left himself open for a attack.

Also, that fight is pretty much unusuable because It happened offscreen, so to say he din't use it without much prove is like...
And also, the "he would get innocents in the way" is pretty faulty since we don't know the size of the castle, to say he would be destroying the whole structure.

Anyway, he could try to nuke Rimuru If he knows that Rimuru is a threat, so If Satella puts that on the OP, i gonna stop arguing.

 

[Zabazab]

What other was Reinhard can kill Rimuru besides the Matter Hax? Because If he try to do anything else, he get powernulled.

He can't kill him without matter hax, he could try to kill him other ways and see it doesn't work, and then use matter hax. Rimuru can't powernull if he doesn't even have a chance to process Reinhard, who is like 8000 times faster.

Also, that fight is pretty much unusuable because It happened offscreen, so to say he din't use it without much prove is like...
And also, the "he would get innocents in the way" is pretty faulty since we don't know the size of the castle, to say he would be destroying the whole structure.

There is literally no actual proof in the novels that Reinhard has a "charge time" on his attacks. You are assuming there is because of the cinematic time of the scenes in which Reinhard swings his sword in the anime.

I find your argument about the size of Pleiades HQ to make no sense at all. The building is just that- a very large building. It's not tens of kilometres in size obviously, which is the range of the matter nuke. We know he didn't use the matter nuke in that fight because everyone was not vapourized as soon as Reinhard swung his sword.

Anyway, he could try to nuke Rimuru If he knows that Rimuru is a threat, so If Satella puts that on the OP, i gonna stop arguing.

There is no reason to argue in the first place as this is not an unequal speed match. This is an equal speed match and therefore Rimuru powernulls 10/10 times and Reinhard has no wincons.

 

[Fezzih_007]

There is no reason to argue in the first place as this is not an unequal speed match. This is an equal speed match and therefore Rimuru powernulls 10/10 times and Reinhard has no wincons.

Sure sure sure, i just questioning some stuff you said, since some Slime fans is saying that Rimuru can we even with speed unequal.

He can't kill him without matter hax, he could try to kill him other ways and see it doesn't work, and then use matter hax. Rimuru can't powernull if he doesn't even have a chance to process Reinhard, who is like 8000 times faster.

You din't actually answer my question. And Reinhard just have his attack being FTL, If he tries to aphroach him with his travel speed, he gets powernulled.

There is literally no actual proof in the novels that Reinhard has a "charge time" on his attacks.

Him needing to gather mana for his surrodings to do the slash.

You are assuming there is because of the cinematic time of the scenes in which Reinhard swings his sword in the anime.

Not really contradicts anything in the novel to not be useable here. And we already talked things in the anime anyway, not sure why you bring his charge time is not a canon thing.

The building is just that- a very large building. It's not tens of kilometres in size obviously, which is the range of the matter nuke.

It could be trought, we don't know to confirm, so is not really usefull.



Anyway, i gonna wait for more arguments to see If Rimuru can do stuff here, or watch the anime.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Also, this is three page to a match that already ended lol.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Also also, is not equal speed this match, is not on the OP.

 

[Zabazab]

TLDR

Not arguing based on rules that are no longer applied to this match, and this match has been done for like days so i'm not arguing here anymore, but ur wrong :3

Also also, is not equal speed this match, is not on the OP.

It was changed to speed equal at some point by Satella on page 2

Also, this is three page to a match that already ended lol.

So true, @SatellaTheWoE this matchup seems to have not worked out, it's a speed stomp under unequal speed and maybe a powernull stomp(?) under equal speed (less sure about the latter one).

 

[Fezzih_007]

It was changed to speed equal at some point by Satella on page 2

He have to put on the OP to make It valid trought.

I think i gonna rewatch the anime, and do a rematch, since some people have problems with the result.

 

[Zabazab]

The result is already clear from this 3-page debate

It's a speed stomp under unequal speed, and if Reinhard's powernull resistence doesn't resist Rimuru's powernull then Rimuru cannot lose under equal speed.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Well i not really conviced, so i gonna do It anyway, just need to wait for my last two threads to end.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Its a speed unequal blitzstomp and a speed equal powernull stomp

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Under unequal speed it doesn't matter if it's his 1st or 100th move, Reinhard could try killing Rimuru hundreds of ways before Rimuru even processes what happens. (FTL vs MHS)

It doesn't matter, If Reinhard never starts with the Matter nuke

Also he's never been in a situation where he would use it instantly.

Reinhard has drawn Reid 4 times on-page: Vs Cecilus in EX 4; Vs Puck in the Unthinkable Present; Vs Theresia in Arc 5; and Vs Cecilus in Wrath IF.

For EX 4, Arc 5, and Wrath IF, he was in a situation where nuking the area with matter hax would be extremely out of character, as innocents were in close proximity.

In the Unthinkable Present, not only were he and Puck were acquainted, but knights are taught to respect Great Spirits. When he realised Puck was doing this of his own selfish motives, he immediately pulled out the matter nuke.

He did not need to use it, he could easily have killed Puck even without his sword- but he chose not to hold back because he did not have to, there were no innocents for kilometres all around who could be caught up in it. If he is in a situation where he does not need to, then he will not hold back.

Reinhard already beated puck to deat and after that he talked with him then matter nuked him.

So There is still no reason for Reinhard to use matter nuke in this situation after all Reinhards intuition won't warn him about Rimuru's Info Analysis because it's not a Attack nor its something offensive.

Reinhards intuition never warn him or told him how to kill his enemy either so it completely useless.

And dont forget Reinhards intelligence is Avarage with out Intuition. With intuition its Gifted.

You guys are acting like its Omniscience.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

It doesn't matter, If Reinhard never starts with the Matter nuke



Reinhard already beated puck to deat and after that he talked with him then matter nuked him.

He beat Puck up, not to death and then he matter nuked him. You havent presented a proper counter arguement yet. He has used his matter nuke when it was available to him, the burden of proof is on you to show me a situation where it was available for him to use and he didnt.

So There is still no reason for Reinhard to use matter nuke in this situation after all Reinhards intuition won't warn him about Rimuru's Info Analysis because it's not a Attack nor its something offensive.

Reinhards intuition never warn him or told him how to kill his enemy either so it completely useless.

And dont forget Reinhards intelligence is Avarage with out Intuition. With intuition its Gifted.

You guys are acting like its Omniscience.

He doesnt need to be omniscient to use his strongest attack, his choice is always optimal in a situation by wog. He isnt gonna choose to go for cqc and even if he does its gonna be extremely low when put in the ratio of when he uses his matter nuke instead

 

[DeusExMachine001]

He beat Puck up, not to death and then he matter nuked him. You havent presented a proper counter arguement yet. He has used his matter nuke when it was available to him, the burden of proof is on you to show me a situation where it was available for him to use and he didnt.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Brief and intermittent, it was difficult to make out what that sound may be.
Difficult, simply because it was so hard to believe that it was precisely what it sounded like.

[Puck: Kh, kheheh……haha, hhahaha!]

[Reinhard: ――What’s so funny?]

With his throat trembling, and on the verge of death, Puck’s face twisted as he burst into laughter.
Even with his life and death in another’s hands, and having had his actions impeded, Puck was laughing. Unable to fathom his meaning, Reinhard asked this question.
But Puck only seemed to find his reaction even more hilarious.

[Puck: What’s so funny? It’s funny, of course it’s funny. Reinhard, you…… no, what would this upstart possibly know?]

[Reinhard: …………]

[Puck: I remember now. How it was meant to be. It took me long enough to understand it. And, having understood, when I saw how you still don’t know, it’s so funny I couldn’t help myself]

There was something different about the tone and volume of that statement that was completely unlike Puck.
For Subaru, who had plenty of memories of seeing Puck in his cat-form, this was the first time he had heard such malice in his words.

This was different from his loathing towards Subaru and Petelgeuse after Emilia was killed. At that time, Puck was still Puck.
This time, the laughter directed at Reinhard was nothing like what he had ever seen from Puck before, but something else entirely――

[Reinhard: ……I will make sure that there are no more casualties. If you want someone to hate, then hate me]

[Puck: I don’t hate you, Reinhard. You are a hero. And a hero has a hero’s role to fill. I don’t resent or fault you for following your creed]

[Reinhard: ――――]

[Puck: You are a hero, Reinhard. ――A hero is all you will ever be]

At the end of the end, he uttered the most spiteful remark of them all.

Nearly every message I sented was with the scans. My argument is strong enough but you guys still didn't proved why Reinhard should start with Matter nuke after all Reinhard dont know how to kill rimuru so he will never know what's killer move is.


And the messages you sented me showed that Reinhard never used matter nuke in the start and later tried to prove us that why Reinhard didn't used nuke on them. We never saw Reinhard pulling nuke on anyone In the start so why would he now ?

 

[Zabazab]

Nearly every message I sented was with the scans. My argument is strong enough but you guys still didn't proved why Reinhard should start with Matter nuke after all Reinhard dont know how to kill rimuru so he will never know what's killer move is.


And the messages you sented me showed that Reinhard never used matter nuke in the start and later tried to prove us that why Reinhard didn't used nuke on them. We never saw Reinhard pulling nuke on anyone In the start so why would he now ?

1) Reinhard makes the optimal decisions in combat due to his own superhuman intuition and his various combat-related Divine Blessings, especially the Divine Blessing of the Sword Saint. Reinhard can tell that someone is strong just with a glance, and his intuition will inform him if they are a threat to his life.

2) There has been no reason for him to start off with matter nuke. Puck is a revered Great Spirit, and he and Reinhard are also acquainted, and so Reinhard gave him a chance to explain. Under SBA he will presume that Rimuru is trying to severely harm him of his own will and with no social protections, and thus he will not behave the way he did with Puck in the Unthinkable Present.

Puck is also just clearly not a threat to Reinhard, and so he can afford to not use his strongest attack immediately. Reinhard inmediately killed his own Grandmother as she was a threat, despite her being controlled and far weaker than Puck. Every other time he has drawn Reid has been in a situation where he cannot use his matter nuke due to proximity with innocent people.

3) Reinhard is at least 8000 times faster than Rimuru and therefore it doesn't matter if he somehow does not use matter nuke first. He can try thousands of attacks before Rimuru can process what's happening, in which case thought-based powernull is useless.

This match has not worked, which just happens sometimes- especially with ridiculous hax characters like Rimuru and Reinhard.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

1)

Spoiler: Spoiler

Analytical Prediction (Has a 6th sense which perceives danger[2], in advance, such as Regulus invisible attacks. As the Sword Saint, like Theresia, he can predict his opponent's future attacks[3] from the stance they take, from where their eyes are trained, and from the very air that hangs above them. In addition Sword Saints can see, read, and feel the paths of hostility raining down on them

)

Spoiler: Spoiler

Possibly Precognition (Despite Elsa being able to see his attack coming, Garfiel was able to counteract it[25] mid-battle, and Reinhard is more skilled than him)

Spoiler: Spoiler

Information Analysis (Theresia's ability to intuitively grasp her opponents most vulnerable point, had no effect on Wilhelm[3] who is far inferior to Reinhard

Spoiler: Spoiler

Genius (His intelligence is stated to be average, but his intuition is incredible[19], so even while taking a test, he’ll get full marks from answering normally, even if it’s not multiple choice. With his intuition, he can tell the physical condition of his opponents in battle by how their bodies feel when he hits them with his sword. His natural talent is such that he can quickly learn things he was previously inexperienced in[8], and is mentioned to be perfect in the field of music[9], and even if he wasn't, a blessing would make him so. He is a natural genius[34] who is master of martial arts, swordsmanship, and countless other styles[34]. Reinhard’s sword technique captures every ounce of performance that can be extracted by any weapon he uses, even a throwaway sword at its end of life, sleeping away in a cellar, shines like some treasured sword passed on by legend across generations[20]. Reinhard's swordsmanship is unparalleled even when compared to past Sword Saints such as Thearesia van Astrea, who stood at the pinnacle of swordsmanship, and saw flaws in even the most polished fighting styles. Wilhelm van Astrea stated that despite being able to surpass Theresia in swordsmanship, which is ordinarily impossible even with a lifetime or eternity of training, Reinhard's skill is not even remotely in the realm of achievable[1], in a different world from everyone and everything else. Within the series many characters have easily dealt with invisible attacks with skill, and even dozens of even more invisible attacks. Countless numbers of attacks have been dealt with via skill, characters are able to accurately hit vitals despite multiple of their senses being sealed, and even brush off all their senses being sealed via skill)

Agreed with the part where it says if somebody is threat to him he will react to that but the intuition didn't told him to Dodge like that or Dodge like this.

Intuition has its limits, As much as I can see intuition didn't told him to how his enemy [ Regulus ] would close the distance between them instantly too , so Intuition only warns him about his enemy is dangerous or not the rest is Reinhards Precognition, Analytical Prediction

And it seems like Reinhards Sword Saint Blessings is just helping him with the sword play

There has been no reason for him to start off with matter nuke. Puck is a revered Great Spirit, and he and Reinhard are also acquainted, and so Reinhard gave him a chance to explain. Under SBA he will presume that Rimuru is trying to severely harm him of his own will and with no social protections, and thus he will not behave the way he did with Puck in the Unthinkable Present.

Puck is also just clearly not a threat to Reinhard, and so he can afford to not use his strongest attack immediately. Reinhard inmediately killed his own Grandmother as she was a threat, despite her being controlled and far weaker than Puck. Every other time he has drawn Reid has been in a situation where he cannot use his matter nuke due to proximity with innocent people.

2) Like you said there was always a reason that always blocked Reinhard using his matter nuke .And his intuition nor any of his divine blessings never told him how to kill his enemy

3) Reinhards travel speed is MHS+ the difference is not that big.

And I dont think Reinhard will use his matter nuke let alone 2km away even with his intuition he get close little bit until his intuition warns him not to get close but until then his power will be nullified.

 

[Fezzih_007]

1) Reinhard makes the optimal decisions in combat due to his own superhuman intuition and his various combat-related Divine Blessings, especially the Divine Blessing of the Sword Saint. Reinhard can tell that someone is strong just with a glance, and his intuition will inform him if they are a threat to his life.

Yeah, Reinhard knows Rimuru is strong, cool cool, don't remember no one denying that trought, so not sure what's your point here.
Well, Rimuru can hide his strenght using his mask lol.

2) There has been no reason for him to start off with matter nuke. Puck is a revered Great Spirit, and he and Reinhard are also acquainted, and so Reinhard gave him a chance to explain. Under SBA he will presume that Rimuru is trying to severely harm him of his own will and with no social protections, and thus he will not behave the way he did with Puck in the Unthinkable Present.

Sorry, but that don't work like that, If the character don't start with his hax in any of his battle, there's no reason to assume that he would do so. SBA don't make you OOC. If his stardard tatics is fighting in close combat, he Will start with that, not a sword energy slash.

Is like saying "Goku just fly up and destroy the planet because to beat Naruto, because of SBA" yeah no.

Puck is also just clearly not a threat to Reinhard, and so he can afford to not use his strongest attack immediately.

He also knows how exactly strong Puck is, unlike Rimuru.

Reinhard killed his own Grandmother as she was a threat, despite her being controlled and far weaker than Puck.

Do i need to tell the difference between Theresia and Rimuru in this situation, or tou can read in replies above why that's don't work?

Every other time he has drawn Reid has been in a situation where he cannot use his matter nuke due to proximity with innocent people

Reinhard can Control the Power of his attacks, so is Fine, he could use It.

3) Reinhard is at least 8000 times faster than Rimuru and therefore it doesn't matter if he somehow does not use matter nuke first. He can try thousands of attacks before Rimuru can process what's happening, in which case thought-based powernull is useless.

And Reinhard just have his attack being FTL, If he tries to aphroach him with his travel speed, he gets powernulled.

Can i ask why every time i try to argue against with you, you say that you won't, because is not speed unequal, but when others try, you are the first to reply? Like, the problem is me? Have been i not good enough?

 

[Zabazab]

Agreed with the part where it says if somebody is threat to him he will react to that but the intuition didn't told him to Dodge like that or Dodge like this.
Intuition has its limits, As much as I can see intuition didn't told him to how his enemy [ Regulus ] would close the distance between them instantly too , so Intuition only warns him about his enemy is dangerous or not the rest is Reinhards Precognition, Analytical Prediction

Reinhard's intuition informs him of any threats to himself, and even informs him
on how to escape the time-trap Regulus made. Simply knowing that Rimuru is dangerous is enough for him to not hold back.

Lightly, Regulus patted the place where he had been struck by the sword, and tilted his head.
Reinhard, alerted by this motion, tossed aside the scraps in his hands and made to leap backward at a wide angle―— just as he prepared to jump, his feet froze in place.

Reinhard’s superhuman intuition.

It informed him of dire, imminent threats to his self, and preemptively detected incoming attacks. His keen instincts told him that he could not dodge to the rear. He immediately straightened and began to search for alternative routes.

Regulus: “The air there, it has already been touched by me.”

Due to the sharpening of his senses locking him into place, at that moment, Reinhard had been left unprepared.

His opponent had him trapped in an invisible yet present envelope. Reinhard’s judgment told him to slip by the force of evil’s side, but, in order to do so, he would be forced to make a defensive strike.

And it seems like Reinhards Sword Saint Blessings is just helping him with the sword play

She would simply go around and have them wield their weapons and train, and point out flaws in their battling as always, nothing unusual.

A fearsome aspect of the Divine Blessing of the Sword Saint was perhaps how it honed all instincts in battle. This did not pertain solely to swords. Let it be spears or axes, were they connected to battle techniques and maneuvers, Theresia was aware of the entirety of their strengths and weaknesses alike.

2) Like you said there was always a reason that always blocked Reinhard using his matter nuke .And his intuition nor any of his divine blessings never told him how to kill his enemy

His intuition would not show him how to kill Rimuru it would merely tell him not to approach, since approaching = death, he can easily attack with his sword from 2km away.

Also the Blessing of the Sword Saint shows vectors drawn by the Sword God that show exactly how to kill one's enemy.

3) Reinhards travel speed is MHS+ the difference is not that big.

He won't be using it since his instincts will be screaming at him that approaching would be suicide.

And I dont think Reinhard will use his matter nuke let alone 2km away even with his intuition he get close little bit until his intuition warns him not to get close but until then his power will be nullified.

And I disagree.

Sorry, but that don't work like that, If the character don't start with his hax in any of his battle, there's no reason to assume that he would do so. SBA don't make you OOC. If his stardard tatics is fighting in close combat, he Will start with that, not a sword energy slash.

Is like saying "Goku just fly up and destroy the planet because to beat Naruto, because of SBA" yeah no.

This is a false equivalence- as soon as Reinhard was in a situation with no civillians for kilometres, encountered an enemy who he was able to draw Reid against, knew was fighting of their own will, who wished to cause harm, and was not protected by laws, he used the matter nuke without mercy. He isn't batman who will try to understand the feelings of a stranger, he is a living weapon who has tried to kill his own emotions to avoid being hurt. But he is still human, and feels conflictions when facing off against people he is acquainted with.

Not to mention that again, Reinhard's battle instincts and intuition lead him to choosing the optimal way to fight.

Reinhard can Control the Power of his attacks, so is Fine, he could use It.

Impossible to prove he can use small-scale matter hax.

Can i ask why every time i try to argue against with you, you say that you won't, because is not speed unequal, but when others try, you are the first to reply? Like, the problem is me? Have been i not good enough?

Because I think you should know enough about RZ to not need corrected, and I don't like continuing a discussion that is over.

I'm only responding to correct what I believe is untrue- the idea that Reinhard would not start off with his strongest attack is just contradictory to his nature.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I'm only responding to correct what I believe is untrue- the idea that Reinhard would not start off with his strongest attack is just contradictory to his nature.

Well i disagree with you still, but since this match is over, i guess we can stop for now and add this to Reinhard victory and Rimuru loses, since Rimuru still have Wincons in this situation. Someone can do a rematch later.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Then this is a stomp , rimuru doesn't st as nd a chance at all after all Reinhard straight going to nuke him.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Then this is a stomp , rimuru doesn't st as nd a chance at all after all Reinhard straight going to nuke him.

His not gonna trought.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

His not gonna trought.

If he dont nuke him he is gonna get his powers nullified.

Like I Said Rimuru's and Raphaels first move always Analysis his opponent and they can nullify their enemy.

If Reinhard hesitates then he is gonna get his powers nullified.

But it seems like he dont.

 

[Fezzih_007]

If he dont nuke him he is gonna get his powers nullified.

Like I Said Rimuru's and Raphaels first move always Analysis his opponent and they can nullify their enemy.

If Reinhard hesitates then he is gonna get his powers nullified.

But it seems like he dont.

So i guess is Inco, since both can happen.
Reinhard don't star with matter hax, and even If he did, he need to to draw for his sheet and gather mana to do so. Granted, is probally be fast, but by the time he tries to do the attack, Rimuru could pontentially powernull him.

Is Inco probally.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

So i guess is Inco, since both can happen.
Reinhard don't star with matter hax, and even If he did, he need to to draw for his sheet and gather mana to do so. Granted, is probally be fast, but by the time he tries to do the attack, Rimuru could pontentially powernull him.

Is Inco probally.

But from what I understand Reinhard can think and act FTL so Reinha could kill him before he can act but the problem is... Rimuru cant act in that time gap and wont give Reinhard any reason to nuke him. Sooo what now ?

 

[Fezzih_007]

But from what I understand Reinhard can think and act FTL so Reinha could kill him before he can act but the problem is... Rimuru cant act in that time gap and wont give Reinhard any reason to nuke him. Sooo what now ?

Inco.

 

[Fezzih_007]

But unfortunelly, this match hás ended before someone could contend the arguments, so this have to be added.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

 

[Fezzih_007]

 

[Fezzih_007]

Ok, i gonna do a rematch later, but i think this should be added to the profiles, can someone ask to add?

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Incon FRA Then ?

Ok, i gonna do a rematch later, but i think this should be added to the profiles, can someone ask to add?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Incon FRA Then ?

Reinhard Win for now actually.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Reinhard Win for now actually.

Then its gonna be stomp

 

[Fezzih_007]

Then its gonna be stomp

Is not trought.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Is not trought.

Only way for Reinhard to win this match is straight nuke If he cant nuke then he gonna get his powers nullified.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Only way for Reinhard to win this match is straight nuke If he cant nuke then he gonna get his powers nullified.

Exactly, so this is not a stomp.
Well, if Rimuru disable his blessings, Reinhard could still fight i think.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Exactly, so this is not a stomp.
Well, if Rimuru disable his blessings, Reinhard could still fight i think.

Problem is , It seems like Reinhards FTL speed and intuition makes it stomp

And nullified Reinhard can be easily killed via Aura , Megiddo and many more.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Problem is , It seems like Reinhards FTL speed and intuition makes it stomp

And nullified Reinhard can be easily killed via Aura , Megiddo and many more.

Yeah, so techincally that all would make inconclusive, since we don't know whice one would happen first.
Reinhard going OOC or not.
But because this match already have 7 votes and have hit grace, only to remediate the outcome is a rematch.

But for now, is a Reinhard W.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Yeah, so techincally that all would make inconclusive, since we don't know whice one would happen first.
Reinhard going OOC or not.
But because this match already have 7 votes and have hit grace, only to remediate the outcome is a rematch.

But for now, is a Reinhard W.

Aren't those votes from the old.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Aren't those votes from the old.

Yes, but they probally still count, since the original wincon is still valid.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Even trought he don't start with matter nuke, but okay.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

VYes, but they probally still count, since the original wincon is still valid.

Those peaple voted before Reinhard get his speed downgraded to MHS+, and they voted for Stomp that's why Reinhard doesn't have it in his profile.

=]