Reinhard Van Astrea vs Satoru Gojo (11-8-1)

[SatellaTheWoE]

Shouldn't be added because it is a stomp.

After talking to multiple knowledgeable members about this off site, I am now even more certain in my judgment.

1. Burden of proof is on Gojo supporters to prove that the space is conceptual, and then further prove that it being conceptual separates it from normal space. When I say prove it, I mean genuinely, give evidence and scans of how this "conceptual space" exists and because of existence it is different from other spaces. Neither of these have been done on this thread despite the constant stonewalling that they "already addressed this.

2. Nothing I've said is an NLF of spatial hax. There is no difference between finite space and infinite space in the face of a space-severing sword when that space is contained in a finite range. Because Gojo's range is not infinite, a finite ranged spatial slash will ignore infinity without the need for an infinite range.

Saying otherwise, or claiming NLF, is the equivalent of stating that a 3-D durability negation ability doesn't affect someone with High 3-A durability because "it's infinite." This is obviously not how such concepts are treated on this site, so if that's your argument go change the wiki standards instead of responding to me with blatantly false claims.

3. Gojo's spatial hax affects time by default because space is intertwined with time. That is very simple physics. This does not mean he has the ability to affect space-time freely, especially when you consider that in the same statements it mentions him manipulating it at "the atomic level." Which is a contradiction in of itself. Unless you are going to argue that atoms are 4-dimensional objects. He has also never further demonstrated any manipulation of time, and thus your arguments about it are moot because of insubstantial evidence.

4. Gojo's convergence of infinite sets only applies to the space that he creates with Infinity. And so as I've said multiple times before, if a sword ignores that space, which it would, said convergence does not matter.

Again, burden of proof is on the Gojo supporters to prove that it doesn't work this way. They have her to provide any evidence otherwise and none of what they are saying has been accepted by staff members.

5. This is probably the most important point. Regardless of whether or not certain abilities have been accepted on a CRT, if they are not on the page, they still do not apply in matches like this. And thus this match is invalidated from the start and can not be added to the profiles.

Atleast that clears one of the arguements up
Next up, what about the DE? Does that still count as a wincon?
I will update the votings till then

Also something i should probably add, Reinhards mind hax was able to affect marcos when Reinhard wasnt even aware of his existence and no medium has ever been implied, in fact if you compare it to Sirius then just becoming aware of her existence caused the person to be mind-soul haxed. its also been confirmed numerous times that Reinhard isnt always aware of what blessings Od Laguna will provide him

 

[Zabazab]

Also something i should probably add, Reinhards mind hax was able to affect marcos when Reinhard wasnt even aware of his existence and no medium has ever been implied, in fact if you compare it to Sirius then just becoming aware of her existence caused the person to be mind-soul haxed. its also been confirmed numerous times that Reinhard isnt always aware of what blessings Od Laguna will provide him

Reinhard was aware of Marcos.

Heinkel: "If only Marcos would have listened to me more..."

Reinhard: "Marcos…?"

Heinkel: "Oh, he's a friend of my dad. He's difficult, but that's just who he is. He's a stubborn, stubborn man. When I asked him to come back to the Order, he was a little..."

Reinhard: "...would you be happy if he came back?"

Heinkel: "Hmm? Yeah, that would be great."

Talking like this, the father and son slowly returned to the brightly lit streets. Hearing Heinkel's words, Reinhard in his arms nodded softly.

And then-

Reinhard: "I have received it."

While he does not always recieve the exact Blessing he wanted, he is aware of which one he does recieve. He also is aware of an can explain every Blessing he has, even though the author cannot.

Q: About Reinhard and his mountain of blessings, does he himself fully grasp all of them? For that matter, does the author fully grasp all of them?

A: I don’t grasp all of them, but Reinhard does. It’s fine as long as the author knows the important ones. What’s up with that Blessing of the Taste King, then? Are you making fun of me?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Next up, what about the DE? Does that still count as a wincon?

Yeah, no one try to debunk that atleast.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yeah, no one try to debunk that atleast.

alr then is your vote changing on this?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Reinhard was aware of Marcos.


While he does not always recieve the exact Blessing he wanted, he is aware of which one he does recieve. He also is aware of an can explain every Blessing he has, even though the author cannot.

1. when i say he wasnt aware of marcos, i meant that he didnt directly know him and all the information he had was his name and that he is in some way related to his father, showing how vague his knowledge of the target needs to be for the target to be affected
2. I am talking about the fact that Reinhard doesnt always need to "wish" for the blessing and it can in fact just spawn on him if he ever needs it without him knowing that he needs it

 

[Fezzih_007]

He also have hollow purple, so he can probally defeat Reinhard via that.

alr then is your vote changing on this?

Nah, i still think is Inco.

 

[Zabazab]

This is still a stomp for Reinhard fra.


Nothing Gojo has can take out Reinhard due to resistences and revives, while Reinhard can immediately one-shot.

1. when i say he wasnt aware of marcos, i meant that he didnt directly know him and all the information he had was his name and that he is in some way related to his father, showing how vague his knowledge of the target needs to be for the target to be affected

I think I get what you mean, not even Heinkel had heard of Mind-Changing prior to the incident, so obviously Reinhard didn't ask specifically for that Blessing, he just thought "I need to get Marcos to do what my dad said" and recieved Mind-Changing.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Snip!

So the cliff-notes version (from what I got); this a mismatch/stomp depending on what P&A are on the profiles Vs not on the profiles plus common misconceptions about how each characters hax functions.

If this is the case then yeah I agree this Vs thread shouldn't be added.

 

[Fezzih_007]

1. when i say he wasnt aware of marcos, i meant that he didnt directly know him and all the information he had was his name and that he is in some way related to his father, showing how vague his knowledge of the target needs to be for the target to be affected

I don't see how that's relevant, since we never discussed If Reinhard needs to know Gojo to affect him. Also, that would be pretty shot hax If Reinhard to know the Guy só he can use mind hax.

2. I am talking about the fact that Reinhard doesnt always need to "wish" for the blessing and it can in fact just spawn on him if he ever needs it without him knowing that he needs it

Also no one really argue with that.

 

[Zabazab]

Yeah basically if the Gojo arguments are right then he stomps, and if the Reinhard arguments are right then he stomps.

This is just not a viable match (like most matches with either of these two lol)

 

[Fezzih_007]

Yeah basically if the Gojo arguments are right then he stomps, and if the Reinhard arguments are right then he stomps.

This is just not a viable match (like most matches with either of these two lol)

Well, Reinhard is still more usuable than gojo trought.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Atleast that clears one of the arguements up
Next up, what about the DE? Does that still count as a wincon?
I will update the votings till then

Also something i should probably add, Reinhards mind hax was able to affect marcos when Reinhard wasnt even aware of his existence and no medium has ever been implied, in fact if you compare it to Sirius then just becoming aware of her existence caused the person to be mind-soul haxed. its also been confirmed numerous times that Reinhard isnt always aware of what blessings Od Laguna will provide him

It doesn't. At all. Not sure who let them cook.

Can we get this closed OP? I'll make a rematch in a bit.

 

[Zabazab]

Why would you want a rematch when you think Reinhard has no wincons? Why debate a stomp match

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Why would you want a rematch when you think Reinhard has no wincons? Why debate a stomp match

So that you re:zero fans can stop making Gojo match ups and butchering his abilities? Clearly, the vote cap does not show a stomp.

I'm more curious why the reinhard fans keep trying to close the incon thread after all the Gojo evidence came out.

 

[Phoenks]

You have absolutely no evidence. Never have you or any of the others on this thread provided sound evidence of your claims.

Please just stop derailing if your only response to my clear and concise debunk of your claims is "who let them cook."

I will get someone to close this.

Also, the fact that you would remake a thread you think is a stomp infers that you are creating it out of spite.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Even If Reinhard could affect Gojo infinity, this still don't make It a stomp for him, so not sure what you talking about.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

You have absolutely no evidence. Never have you or any of the others on this thread provided sound evidence of your claims.

I have a passed CRT and have personally bodied you several times in this thread.

All you have done is make baseless claims and talk about how your off-site friends have coddled you about being wrong.

Make a CRT.

Tell your friends to pull up.

Or stop talking. I have, ironically, posted more scans of Reinhard and his capablities then you have. So please don't try and grandstand, especially given I have indeed proven you wrong in this thread (e.g. "Gojo doesn't create space, "Gojo only controls distance", Gojo's power isn't conceptual!?!?").

Please just stop derailing if your only response to my clear and concise debunk of your claims is "who let them cook."

You didn't debunk shit. you didn't even respond to my claims specifically nor post any actual evidence.

So yeah, I'm for sure gonna question who let you cook if I see you adding bleach to a pan.

I will get someone to close this.

Thanks pal.

Also, the fact that you would remake a thread you think is a stomp infers that you are creating it out of spite.

It does not. It infers I want to clear up your shitty arguments so people can stop making threads about gojo when they clearly are not acting in good faith nor taking the time to actually read his abilities.

But go off pal.

 

[KingNanaya]

It does not. It infers I want to clear up your shitty arguments so people can stop making threads about gojo when they clearly are not acting in good faith nor taking the time to actually read his abilities.

But go off pal.

it's pretty hard to say that you're arguing in good faith.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

it's pretty hard to say that you're arguing in good faith.

I would say that is nonsense given me backing up my claims with actual sourced evidence/CRTs, taking the time to look into claims from the otherside, and given my initial stance in this thread was favoring Reinhard.

It wasn't until people made false claims about Gojo and greatly stretched what Reinhard is capable of that I switched, which you can literally go back and read.

 

[Phoenks]

@Emirp sumitpo could you please close this thread when you get the chance?

- Gojo profile is not updated, so this thread is pretty much invalid regardless of the arguments on each side.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I have been told that this thread is somewhat getting out of hand and so I've locked this.