Sword Saint vs Sword Saint (Rematch) 1-7-1 (GRACE)

[SatellaTheWoE]

magic is a skill and it has unconventional resistance to it, so much so that in the verse you need to break the laws of the world to nullify the magic

Not necessarily, magic requires magicules and the teleport magic works by implanting magic circles into which you pour magicules into. This flow of magicules however will be broken off as any magic outside of her body will be nullified by Reinhard.

anytime we have seen a barrier which constricts magicules, all of the magic gets nullified as seen in the anime.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Bump

 

[DeusExMachine001]

VsbattleWiki Didn't send me the notifications.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

I dont even wanna get into how much ooc you are going in for rn. Hinata knows that he is weaker than her, she wont be panicking and spamming usurper.

I am not going anything for Hinata Reinhard in this match don't have any strong evidence of win-con everything is countered

My guy...
Skills dont grant you resistance to reading what they can do or not, thats something only Ultimate Skills can do. Unique skills can still very much be read easily and there has been no instance of them being able to block or give mis info about their powers. In fact, this is a major plot point in Hinata's arc where she couldn't read Luminous or Rimuru.

Rimuru already did have a Resistance against information analysis before ultimate skills are just layers.

Its being added but essentially petelgeuse's unseen hands are intangible and has layered invisibility and he himself is a soul. Wilhelm could still cleave through his hands no problem and due to the floe method this should scale to everybody above him which includes Reinhard. We also got another imagery of Reinhard cleaving through Betelgeuse, who is a soul, with his bare hands

Ok, but did Betelguse make his hands intangible when he is fighting that we don't know?
so create a CRT for it, and talk it with Re: Zero Supporters.

And this just straight up proves my point, she only knows about Rimuru's magicules cap, she wouldn't get crap from rhat when compared ro Reinhard. Its very likely for her to underestimate him

Analytical Appraisal​

It allows the user to analyze and appraise a target.
Here you go.
This is one of the sub-skills of mathematician
It's not limited to aura and someone like Reinhard wouldn't be able to resist it.

 

[Peak]

my point of view remains unaltered and I will not surrender as I see that the discussion has gone in circles

but speaking again, if hinata manages to steal the blessings, she wins, if not then it's incon

 

[DeusExMachine001]

my point of view remains unaltered and I will not surrender as I see that the discussion has gone in circles

but speaking again, if hinata manages to steal the blessings, she wins, if not then it's incon

They have accepted that long time ago.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

my point of view remains unaltered and I will not surrender as I see that the discussion has gone in circles

but speaking again, if hinata manages to steal the blessings, she wins, if not then it's incon

They have accepted that long time ago.

no, it was already established that blessings vs blessing cancel each other out. his passive power null and matter hax arent due to blessings nor is his godly skill or his godly instincts. his wincons remain the exact same

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I am not going anything for Hinata Reinhard in this match don't have any strong evidence of win-con everything is countered

did you just not read the thread?

Rimuru already did have a Resistance against information analysis before ultimate skills are just layers.

She isnt Rimuru and what layers? give me scans of them

Ok, but did Betelguse make his hands intangible when he is fighting that we don't know?
so create a CRT for it, and talk it with Re: Zero Supporters.

thats already a pre-established thing but that isnt even required becuz Reinhard cleaved his soul in half. also i believe NPI has now been approved

Analytical Appraisal​

It allows the user to analyze and appraise a target.
Here you go.
This is one of the sub-skills of mathematician
It's not limited to aura and someone like Reinhard wouldn't be able to resist it.

I am 100% sure thats applicable only for objects

 

[Fezzih_007]

VsbattleWiki Didn't send me the notifications.

You sure you just don't stop following this thread?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

bump

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

bump

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Bump

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Bump

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

You sure you just don't stop following this thread?

Btw whats your vote

 

[Fezzih_007]

I not sure, what's the arguments again?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I not sure, what's the arguments again?

To summarize:
Hinata's wincons are Melt Slash, 7 hits from her DER and Disintegration. She can steal Reinhards blessing but its extremely likely that they will be removed due to Od Laguna's interference. She has the AP advantage. She can use teleportation to get out of Reinhard's range however this will take a lot out of her overall stamina and its extremely likely that she cant repeat this multiple times. She also potentially has a better IA
I should mention that melt slash and disintegration should be slightly ooc for her to start off with due to her assuming Reinhard to be far weaker than her due to the magicule/mana count that Mathematician will tell her about.


Reinhard's wincon are matter nuke and a normal sword swing. He massively outskills her due to her best skill feat not even being relative to Theresia. He also can auto dodge, has a higher LS, can cut straight through her sword due to Spatial hax, has a better anal precog. In case of melt slash being used there is a high likelihood of him auto dodging with his AP, godly instinct and Auto dodge blessing combo.. he also has a better stamina and can resurrect if she kills him normally.
Matter hax should be his go to attack due to his godly instincts warning him

 

[Fezzih_007]

Ok(i have doubts by some of the stuff you said trought), i gonna vote for Inco then, because i actually read the entire thread, and the arguments don't convince me that either could Win more than the other.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Ok(i have doubts by some of the stuff you said trought), i gonna vote for Inco then, because i actually read the entire thread, and the arguments don't convince me that either could Win more than the other.

sure

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Bump

 

[Fezzih_007]

I gonna change my vote for Inco now, the argument of "The copy thing should't work" don't make any sense

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I gonna change my vote for Reinhard Fra now, i change my mind.

Based

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

bump

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Bump

 

[Greatsage13th]

reinhard FRA

 

[Neoxxi16]

Incon FRA

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Reinhard doing nothing against Hinata's Point Black Astral Bind.

Reinhard's win-con are matter nuke and a normal sword swing. He massively outskills her due to her best skill feat not even being relative to Theresia

Hinata can quickly overwhelm him in the swordplay Reinhard might be in another dimension but Hinata can also steal arts and sword technique's

normal sword swing

that's Hinata's Wincon
you never send anything related to Reinhard's ordinary sword slashes being spatial cuts.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Btw, i changed my vote for Inco again.

 

[Zabazab]

Reinhard doing nothing against Hinata's Point Black Astral Bind.

This isn't an argument, this is just stating a wincon. "Hinata doing nothing against Reinhard's spatial slash" is just as accurate of a statement.

Hinata can quickly overwhelm him in the swordplay Reinhard might be in another dimension but Hinata can also steal arts and sword technique's

Hinata is massively outskilled here, to the point where a single interaction would immediately disarm her. I haven't seen a single Hinata skill feat listed and her profile only mentions that she's "almost a genius".

For stealing skills, does her steal also erase memories? Most of Reinhard's offensive hax is just born from his skill swordsmanship, which would be tied to his own memory. Sword Saint blessing maxes out his skill anyway even if it does though.

that's Hinata's Wincon
you never send anything related to Reinhard's ordinary sword slashes being spatial cuts.

How does a normal sword swing from Hinata instantly gg Reinhard?

And I've shown the scans already. Reinhard's regular swings cut through space. Please explain what makes you think they don't so I can explain it more specifically.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

bump

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Hinata is massively outskilled here, to the point where a single interaction would immediately disarm her. I haven't seen a single Hinata skill feat listed and her profile only mentions that she's "almost a genius".

For stealing skills, does her steal also erase memories? Most of Reinhard's offensive hax is just born from his skill swordsmanship, which would be tied to his own memory. Sword Saint blessing maxes out his skill anyway even if it does though.

Nothing in reinhards profile shows that Reinhard immensely out skills Hinata I can put her feats here and we can talk

No she just copies the art not steals

How does a normal sword swing from Hinata instantly gg Reinhard?

And I've shown the scans already. Reinhard's regular swings cut through space. Please explain what makes you think they don't so I can explain it more specifically.

AP difference.

And nope those feats weren't saying Reinhard unleashes the strikes instantly, It States the strike or energy after Reinhard unleashes it is instant.

This isn't an argument, this is just stating a wincon. "Hinata doing nothing against Reinhard's spatial slash" is just as accurate of a statement.

She can always dodge it or teleport, she Dodged intercept attacks faster then herself.

And he can't do anything against Astral Bind.

 

[Zabazab]

Nothing in reinhards profile shows that Reinhard immensely out skills Hinata I can put her feats here and we can talk

Aight, that'd be helpful.

AP difference.

That isn't a gg because he resurrects upon death.

And nope those feats weren't saying Reinhard unleashes the strikes instantly, It States the strike or energy after Reinhard unleashes it is instant.

I don't understand what you're saying here- why are you talking about instant attacks?

She can always dodge it or teleport, she Dodged intercept attacks faster then herself.

Well yeah with a bit of distance dodging something faster than you is something that can be done. Reinhard is far, far better at dodging though considering he has Blessings specifically to make him dodge anything he can.

Astral Bind is a one-use item that if it misses she can't use it again, it's not nearly as dangerous as any & every swing from Reinhard negging her durability.

And he can't do anything against Astral Bind.

I'm not gonna repeat myself, my response to this is unchanged:

This isn't an argument, this is just stating a wincon. "Hinata doing nothing against Reinhard's spatial slash" is just as accurate of a statement.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

I don't understand what you're saying here- why are you talking about instant attacks?

Reinhard isnt unleashes attack instantly after he unleashes the attack then the energy strike or whatever is instant.

Astral Bind is a one-use item that if it misses she can't use it again, it's not nearly as dangerous as any & every swing from Reinhard negging her durability.

It's not something that can be Dodged or can be affected by Reinhards blessings because It's not an object that hits target.

This isn't an argument, this is just stating a wincon. "Hinata doing nothing against Reinhard's spatial slash" is just as accurate of a statement.

Teleportation and like I said Hinata knows everything about Reinhard.

So she can counter all of Reinhards move with simply teleporting anywhere on her sights.

And none of reinhard strikes that can kill hinata are continous or instant.

 

[Zabazab]

Reinhard isnt unleashes attack instantly after he unleashes the attack then the energy strike or whatever is instant.

Again, why are you talking about instant attacks?

It's not something that can be Dodged or can be affected by Reinhards blessings because It's not an object that hits target.

Please substantiate the idea that you can't dodge this thrown amulet. Also, is this a magic item? Because his physiology also nullifies magic items.

Teleportation and like I said Hinata knows everything about Reinhard.

So she can counter all of Reinhards move with simply teleporting anywhere on her sights.

Has she ever used teleportation like this? The scans seemed to imply it was a fast-travel thing rather than a Nightcrawler thing.

Additionally, Satella seemed to disagree with the idea that she could teleport due to the mechanics of Reinhard's magic draining:

Not necessarily, magic requires magicules and the teleport magic works by implanting magic circles into which you pour magicules into. This flow of magicules however will be broken off as any magic outside of her body will be nullified by Reinhard.

anytime we have seen a barrier which constricts magicules, all of the magic gets nullified as seen in the anime.

And none of reinhard strikes that can kill hinata are continous or instant.

Every single regular swing of his blade cuts through space. I showed this with both a scan of Reinhard and a scan of Reid (as in the scan Reid is directly compared to Reinhard). Here they are again.

Subaru swung his whip to yank a blonde-haired woman, who was hiding behind the altar, to safety. Even as her throat was being choked, Emilia kicked her sword of ice over to Reinhard. Reinhard, who had appeared out of nowhere, caught the sword and swung it towards Regulus.

In the next instant, sound vanished from the world—— a brilliant blue light accompanied the shockwave that engulfed the church. - "Thus Opens the Crusade Against [Greed]"

Against Julius, who had gambled and unveiled the secret ritual, Reid Astrea’s actions were terribly simple.

To swing down the sword he had swung up, a deed of sword strikes likely repeated the most in this world―― it obliquely bisected the world, becoming a light which wrecked all in its path to ruin.

Neither a special magic, nor a special move.

With a mere swing of the sword, the world was scorched by light. Impossible to understand. - "Good Loser"

With a swing of the sword, the world fissured.

That, was the special move of the Sword Saint which transpired when Reinhard swung the sword as well. - "Good Loser"

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Again, why are you talking about instant attacks?

right, neither of these characters have any sort of "instant" attacks becuz neither have infinite speed

Please substantiate the idea that you can't dodge this thrown amulet. Also, is this a magic item? Because his physiology also nullifies magic items.

Reminder that Reinhard still has his own godly instincts that are comparable if not better at helping him dodge attacks, as seen with Regulus and his attacks which didnt even exist in the same plane and were undetectable to Reinhard. So, he can dodge attacks that he cant even perceive

Has she ever used teleportation like this? The scans seemed to imply it was a fast-travel thing rather than a Nightcrawler thing.

Additionally, Satella seemed to disagree with the idea that she could teleport due to the mechanics of Reinhard's magic draining:



Every single regular swing of his blade cuts through space. I showed this with both a scan of Reinhard and a scan of Reid (as in the scan Reid is directly compared to Reinhard). Here they are again.

There is also the fact that she cant pull this multiple times due to her magicule supply. Its implied she would be drained enough to not be able to reliably fight Rimuru at full strength after just a single Teleportation and this is more of a trump card then a hand she could play multiple times. Compare this to Reinhard being able to dodge almost all of her attacks.

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Reminder that Reinhard still has his own godly instincts that are comparable if not better at helping him dodge attacks, as seen with Regulus and his attacks which didnt even exist in the same plane and were undetectable to Reinhard. So, he can dodge attacks that he cant even perceive

Ok it seems like you are ignoring what I am saying That amulet doesn't hit its target. Ok?

There is also the fact that she cant pull this multiple times due to her magicule supply. Its implied she would be drained enough to not be able to reliably fight Rimuru at full strength after just a single Teleportation and this is more of a trump card then a hand she could play multiple times. Compare this to Reinhard being able to dodge almost all of her attacks.

You ignored my comment.

If 2 Spiritual Life Form fights each other. winner will be the one who use less energy, everything depends on the stamina.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Ok it seems like you are ignoring what I am saying That amulet doesn't hit its target. Ok?

your scan doesnt have anything proving it doesnt hit its target.

You ignored my comment.

If 2 Spiritual Life Form fights each other. winner will be the one who use less energy, everything depends on the stamina.

yeah and?
Teleporting takes a lot out of her stamina but if she doesnt she dies due to the matter nuke
She cant continously use teleport to avoid the matter nuke

 

[CodeCCLL]

Teleporting takes a lot out of her stamina but if she doesnt she dies due to the matter nuke
She cant continously use teleport to avoid the matter nuke

Reinhard doesn't know that teleporting consumes a lot of stamina. He hasn't reason to spam the matter nuke.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Reinhard doesn't know that teleporting consumes a lot of stamina. He hasn't reason to spam the matter nuke.

I am not sure if i need to mention this again and again but
1. He has godly instincts that will always tell him what the right thing to do will be. Even if he doesn't know directly the reason for it, he will know the correct thing to do.
2. he has absolutely no limitations on spamming nuke after nuke, those are quite literally his regular swings at full power. I don't see why he wouldn't do so

 

[CodeCCLL]

1. He has godly instincts that will always tell him what the right thing to do will be. Even if he doesn't know directly the reason for it, he will know the correct thing to do.

Is there a scan where Reinhard's instincts tell him exactly what to do to beat his opponent?

(I don't like asking for a scan but I guess it's not mentioned in the parts about his instincts.)

2. he has absolutely no limitations on spamming nuke after nuke, those are quite literally his regular swings at full power. I don't see why he wouldn't do so

Why would he do that if he's not bloodthirsty? You said that Reinhard didn't use matter nuke in every battle.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Is there a scan where Reinhard's instincts tell him exactly what to do to beat his opponent?

No. His instincts just help him dodge a attack, It never Tell "ok, this guy is strong, i should use my strongest attack out of the gate"
The argument is more like, since he was Very good instincts, they would warn him that aphroach Hinata is a bad Idea, so he would start with that.