MCU Phase 4 General Discussion Thread

[Valiant_Abyss]

That doesn’t mean anything. You don’t have to turn the infinity stones into a joke just to build something up. I hate when writers make something look bad just to look good.
“My friends sacrificed their lives for these stones. What’s that? They’re merely paperweights to you people? What’s that? All this is supposed to happen, ultimately making our choices meaningless?”
“Ye dude!! Btw what’s a fish? :v”

And this is what worries me. This one episode managed to break time travel even more than before.

How are the Avengers chances 14 million to 1 if every other timeline is an exact copy of the main timeline?

Why are there multiple timelines that aren’t any different from each other? Wouldn’t that risk more deviations in other timelines giving the TVA more work by looking over a shit ton other timelines?

Did you like, not watch the episode? I thought they made it clear that the time keepers merged the multiverse into a single timeline?

Why aren’t the Avengers facing any consequences? They’re the reason for the deviations of other timelines. They allowed Loki to escape, ******* the 2012 timeline, and the completely ****** the 2014 by removing Thanos and his entire army. Not to mention 2013 Thor losing his hammer. He’s probably dead because of that lmao.

How the hell did Steve return the infinity stones to where they were if the TVA are resetting those timelines due to variants the Avengers caused? There’s no point in returning an infinity stone to a timeline that’s been reset. Even if you argue they weren’t reset, that just makes it worse. Cap returning the stones by itself would cause deviations because that never happened in the main timeline. Even something as little as being late for work is a deviation, but cause and effect due to time travel isn’t apparently.

What’s the point of the TVA having an entire court system if they’re gonna vaporize you any? Don’t have a ticket? Get vaporized. Don’t sign papers? Get vaporized. Don’t want to comply? Get vaporized. Do everything they say? Get vaporized. It’s such stupid redundant asinine bull shit that without it, the plot would be done with in seconds. If Loki is a deviation, simply erase him and reset the timeline. Don’t show him all these alternatives and allow him to have opportunities to escape. The TVA are a bunch of foolish assholes that drag all the BS just to be dicks. I don’t even see the point of the TVA when the lizard gods could just fix everything lol.

The TVA can look into the past present and future. They can predict your every move yet they get duped by Loki and react with a surprised Pikachu face.

And this is exactly what the show could be (and most likely will be) covering and answering in the 5 more episodes of nearly an hour of content each, if you wait and watch.

Loki goes through an entire character arc in mere minutes. You have Lightning McQueen pestering Loki over and over again with “why do you do the things you do mang?” Then Loki watches his alternative self and suddenly changes. This is not only forced and rushed but people don’t do that. If I was a tyrant and a random dude showed me a video of my future self giving out cookies to lil kids as a completely changed person, I’d call you crazy and call that video fake. That’s not how arcs work. It took Loki a while to warm up to Thor and when they finally started getting along, he died. That made is arc more impactful. But now all we gotta do to develop our characters is show them a lil video and suddenly their entire motivations, character, and everything they stand for changes in a heartbeat. Not to mention Loki telling his true feelings but not showing them is horrible writing. Show don’t tell! This should’ve been something shown at the end of the series so we could see it develop. Then it’ll give more of an understanding of prime Loki’s motives, making his arc pay off a lot more.

So what’s next? This episode was a boring exposition dump that broke the whole verse and ****** one of my favorite characters. All. In. One. Episode!

This was a horrible start and I horrified what the future unfolds. This is one of the worst things added to the MCU and it stand by that.

I'm not gonna respond to this too much, cuz everyone has their own opinions about pacing shit but yeah, you do you. I mean this was pretty much Loki's true personality the entire time, which he merely concealed for so long because of poor parenting from Odin. How did you expect him to react to the file of what the clearly formidable TVA asserted in his mind was his literal future?

Also, about everyone screaming doomsday about the whole infinity stone shit, and how the TVA and the Time Keepers invalidate them, all I have to say is that Multiverse of Madness is still a thing. According to the MCU wiki, the synopsis for MoM is:

"After the events of Avengers: Endgame, Dr. Stephen Strange's continuing research on the Time Stone is hindered by a friend-turned-enemy, resulting in Strange unleashing unspeakable evil.[4]"

So very clearly the stones are still going to be relevant in at least some degree in a movie titled "Multiverse of Madness".

Oh yeah, and about the whole free will thing (which is most likely gonna be touched on in Loki anyways) with the timeline monitored and decided by the Time-keepers/TVA, I'm not sure if you realize that some major **** up HAS to happen from now until Spiderman 3 and Multiverse of Madness comes around the corner.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Did you like, not watch the episode? I thought they made it clear that the time keepers merged the multiverse into a single timeline?

Do you not see the problems with this? I already brought this up. How can the Avengers travel to alternative timelines all of them were merged into 1? Does that make any sense to you?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@XSOULOFCINDERX

Look at this btw

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

@XSOULOFCINDERX

Look at this btw

If Hulk didn't scream "TOO MANY STAIRS", he would have been melted
If the Avengers went to KFC instead of Shwarma, they would have been melted
If Loki was falling for 10 minutes, he would have been melted
If Thanos did not chuck the moon, he would have been melted

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

@XSOULOFCINDERX

Look at this btw

XD
if the rat had misstepped even once before it turned on Antman's Van it would've been melted twice because it didn't turn on the Van afterwards.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

By the way, another thing is that while revealing things later on in future episodes, it should not be "Well look like they screwed up pretty much everything and the entire continuity has more plotholes than all of Spongebob and the Fairly Odd Parents combined, how will they fix it!", that's bad writing.

What it should be is "Hmm, this is a nice concept, I wonder what happens next"

 

[Dalesean027]

@XSOULOFCINDERX

Look at this btw

That's actually funny as hell

If Hulk didn't scream "TOO MANY STAIRS", he would have been melted
If the Avengers went to KFC instead of Shwarma, they would have been melted
If Loki was falling for 10 minutes, he would have been melted
If Thanos did not chuck the moon, he would have been melted

This has to be the funniest thing to come out of this but I'm not going to meme I'd rather just wait on seeing how the show turns out we haven't seen it all and I've already given my piece, for now though things shouldn't be too serious or hard let's cool it a bit and see how things play out but I understand both sides of it

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Was it stated that the avengers went to alternate timelines? They created ones, yes, but did they travel to any themselves?

Also, we literally witness what happens to the timelines the avengers created through their actions when the TVA enforcer resets the timeline before taking Loki to the TVA. And as to why the Avengers don't get punished, Loki himself even acknowledges how ridiculous that is. What the "Time Keepers" decide what is and what isnt supposed to happen is a ridiculous concept that the show itself recognizes and will more likely than not, cover said concept in the coming episodes.

This is deadass like going online to post review a video game you've only played a chapter of.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

That's actually funny as hell

This has to be the funniest thing to come out of this but I'm not going to meme I'd rather just wait on seeing how the show turns out we haven't seen it all and I've already given my piece, for now though things shouldn't be too serious or hard let's cool it a bit and see how things play out but I understand both sides of it

In the end of the day it's just fiction and we will just move on with our lives and forget about it in 2 months. I like the MCU, but if Loki ends up ruining the entire series, I will just be "meh" and stay content with the original saga

It's not like if the Lord of the Rings amazon series ends up being a disaster which ruins Tolkien's/Peter Jackson's entire work and legacy (Which I know will happen) or some souless executive jumbles up a terrible Twin Peaks season 4 for cheap cash, now if THAT happens then I will be pissed forever.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Remember how Strange said that Thanos won like 14 Million different times in Alternate Futures? Well that's bullshit because if things didn't turn out the way they did, then he would've been ******* Melted by TVA.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Was it stated that the avengers went to alternate timelines? They created ones, yes, but did they travel to any themselves?

Did you not watch Avengers Endgame? They explicitly go to alternative timelines. Otherwise changes of their past would affect their future. Don’t be ridiculous.

Also, we literally witness what happens to the timelines the avengers created through their actions when the TVA enforcer resets the timeline before taking Loki to the TVA. And as to why the Avengers don't get punished, Loki himself even acknowledges how ridiculous that is. What the "Time Keepers" decide what is and what isnt supposed to happen is a ridiculous concept that the show itself recognizes and will more likely than not, cover said concept in the coming episodes.

The show acknowledging its own stupidity doesn’t make it right at all. If anything that makes it worse. It shows that the writers know what they’re writing is stupid but lazily gloss over it because “funny joke lol”.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Also, I got a BIG plothole.

The Infinity Stones explicitly work in other timelines seeing how alternate stones work in endgame and how the time stone worked in the dark dimension.

So how do they explain the multiple infinity stones, especially ruining it for a cheap joke???

Btw, If the many stones scene was put in a serious matter so the TVA were able to control time and keep it stable (Which is somewhat consistent given the ancient one's statement in endgame), it would be way better despite the many flaws, but doing it for a joke is pretty awful

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

(0:48) “If I give up the time stone to help your reality I’m dooming mine.”

@Crimson_Shadow101

 

[Coolboy6]

All of this is making me hope that Loki finds a way to take out the TVA cuz they do pointless things (arresting people for deciding to do something else in one timeline instead of in the main timeline)

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Guys, I got an idea to fix this, this is my way which makes sense:

Loki is actually captured by Nightmare who puts him in a simulation (Which is where the TVA comes in), Nightmare (Fake TVA) uses Loki to destabilize Time (Future episodes where Loki goes through time). Later on Loki realizes he is captured by Nightmare so the final episodes is Loki trying to get out. However, time is so destabilized in this reality he ends up causing a big multiversal warp.

This will set up Doctor Strange 2 (Nightmare is the unspeakable evil and the main villain), and this will lead Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield to enter the MCU main universe (Spider-Man No Way Home)

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

The show acknowledging its own stupidity doesn’t make it right at all. If anything that makes it worse. It shows that the writers know what they’re writing is stupid but lazily gloss over it because “funny joke lol”.

You completely skipped over what I said. The show created an issue (lack free will and people not being able to decide their own fate), the main protagonist of the show loki, sees the problem with this, and the show will explore this in later episodes. This is kinda how fictional story telling and messaging works in case you weren't aware.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

You completely skipped over what I said. The show created an issue (lack free will and people not being able to decide their own fate), the main protagonist of the show loki, sees the problem with this, and the show will explore this in later episodes. This is kinda how fictional story telling and messaging works in case you weren't aware.

No, when developing plot points later on in future episodes, it should not be "Well look like they screwed up pretty much everything in the series, and the entire continuity has more plotholes than all of Spongebob and the Fairly Odd Parents combined, how will they fix it!", that's bad writing, which is your argument right now.

What it should be is "Hmm, this is a pretty nice concept, I wonder what happens later on".

 

[DuDE01010]

There's literally no way to un-**** the MCU because the Time Lizards have already caused every single event to take place exactly the way they want

Bro spoiler lmao, i've only seen the first ep.

Looks like the time lizards are hardcore Steve fanboys. They really wanted to see Peggy and Steve bang.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

You completely skipped over what I said. The show created an issue (lack free will and people not being able to decide their own fate), the main protagonist of the show loki, sees the problem with this, and the show will explore this in later episodes. This is kinda how fictional story telling and messaging works in case you weren't aware.

Now you’re passing this off as “well they’re the bad guys”. That’s true but the writers did NOT have to ruin the entire MCU to show how evil these mfs are. And that’s just one of the many problems the show entails.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Remember how Strange said that Thanos won like 14 Million different times in Alternate Futures? Well that's bullshit because if things didn't turn out the way they did, then he would've been ******* Melted by TVA.

14 million rats melted, RIP

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

No, when developing plot points later on in future episodes, it should not be "Well look like they screwed up pretty much everything in the series, and the entire continuity has more plotholes than all of Spongebob and the Fairly Odd Parents combined, how will they fix it!", that's bad writing, which is your argument right now.

What it should be is "Hmm, this is a pretty nice concept, I wonder what happens later on".

So suddenly you're deciding what defines good writing and what's bad writing? Suddenly every thematic device brought up has to be uncontradictory to what we were shown in previous works to be good writing?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Bro spoiler lmao, i've only seen the first ep.

Looks like the time lizards are hardcore Steve fanboys. They really wanted to see Peggy and Steve bang.

Steve would absolutely despise the time lizards if he knew their existence

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Steve would absolutely despise the time lizards if he knew their existence

Come to think of it, the TVA are a lot like SHIELD in the Winter Soldier

 

[DuDE01010]

Wandavison was worse. Like Vision clearly died in Infinity War yet he was suddenly alive in Wandavison. The writers have forgotten everything, complete **** up imo.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Wandavison was worse. Like Vision clearly died in Infinity War yet he was suddenly alive in Wandavison. The writers have forgotten everything, complete **** up imo.

Okay, this is just blatant not watching here with this one lol. I'm not sure if this was a joke or not, but Wanda created her own vision via magic bs, and then SWORD acquired a sample of her magic energy and used it to charge vision's corpse in place of the mind stone. Its not like he just "showed up"

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

So suddenly you're deciding what defines good writing and what's bad writing? Suddenly every thematic device brought up has to be uncontradictory to what we were shown in previous works to be good writing?

Uhhhh yes?! You can’t be serious my guy. If you have something that contradicts another thing then that creates a plot hole. Plot hole = bad writing. Especially if it’s a plot hole this big. Stop trying to defend this garbage.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Uhhhh yes?! You can’t be serious my guy. If you have something that contradicts another thing then that creates a plot hole. Plot hole = bad writing. Especially if it’s a plot hole this big. Stop trying to defend this garbage.

Jesus Christ. The fact that this needed to be pointed out makes me ******* sad, like legitimately sad.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

But you haven't even given the show an opportunity to explain/fix those plot holes. So yes I will continue to defend and enjoy this "garbage"

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

But you haven't even given the show an opportunity to explain/fix those plot holes. So yes I will continue to defend and enjoy this "garbage"

That's not how storytelling works.

Your'e not SUPPOSED to have plot holes in a story, never.

Also, don't get too heated, in the end of they day people can enjoy what they like and express they like however bad the media is, but people are able to criticize it if they want to

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

But you haven't even given the show an opportunity to explain/fix those plot holes. So yes I will continue to defend and enjoy this "garbage"

“I swear dude. The show starts getting good after episode one” lol. I’m out. I ain’t gonna entertain your shitty arguments for this cinematic disaster.

Fyi. Never said you can’t enjoy it. I’m just pointing out its stupidity.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Speaking of better MCU stuff, can people please vote here and finish this???

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

K. Have fun. I'll be sitting back and enjoying this new multiverse saga like fine wine. Have fun with whatever else youre doing.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Anyways, has anyone calced this feat of John Walker ripping off falcon's wings yet? Tearing feats apparently often get really solid LS results.

 

[DuDE01010]

Okay, this is just blatant not watching here with this one lol. I'm not sure if this was a joke or not, but Wanda created her own vision via magic bs, and then SWORD acquired a sample of her magic energy and used it to charge vision's corpse in place of the mind stone. Its not like he just "showed up"

There was no magic Vision. SWORD?? I think you're tripping my guy.

I've seen the first episode and Vison was alive with no reasoning provided. Major plot hole. I don't care if there are more episodes showing the entire story #MCUruined.

 

[DuDE01010]

John Walker's a beast. Probably my favorite street tier currently.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

MCU has this weird thing where they make the villain in some way more agreeable than the supposed hero to a point beyond sympathy lately lmfao. Tyler Hayward was kinda right that Wanda was a terrorist. John Walker was kinda unfairly treated, Zemo was kinda right and now it looks like Lady Loki or whoever could be the relatable villain against a TVA with a ****** moral compass.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Don't forget the flag smasher. She killed people to send a message and the writers think that we should sympathise with her. Not every villain has to be gray.There is nothing wrong with pure evil villains

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Don't forget the flag smasher. She killed people to send a message and the writers think that we should sympathise with her. Not every villain has to be gray.There is nothing wrong with pure evil villains

I think due to this (highly flawed) notion that all good villains need a sympathetic backstory or some redeeming quality, but sometimes the actions of the villains make it so a sympathetic backstory or redeeming quality is out of place.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Well yeah the Flag Smashers are the exact opposite of the few people I just mentioned, being not really relatable at all but somehow the writers expect us to sympathise for them.

 

[Lollipop_The_King]

Wow
This sure turned to an argument
Good job, Zamasu