MCU Phase 4 General Discussion Thread

[Valiant_Abyss]

So if they are 8-A, then they’re probably asgardian (just a theory)

Or just their own race that are physically on the level, or superior to asgardians.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The infinity stones being a "cheap collectible" is just showing how powerful the time keepers are, also the "removing of free will" is justified because life takes precedence over liberty, am I correct?

It still cheapens all stakes in the MCU, the entire infinity war was cheap because in the end it was not "1 in 14 million", it was a predetermined event, the surprise of Tony stealing the stones is cheap because it was ultimately predetermined, if he didn't steal the stones, he got melted. Steve was not really a good guy, he just got melted until that once chance of him being good. Any choice which helped develop their character isn't there because it wasn't them doing it

Power does not always need to equal good story telling, you could display the power of the time keepers without cheapening the entire saga (Particuarly endgame)

 

[OwenVaunman]

I disagree, because the 1 in 14 million does the same thing, makes it predetermined, on top of that time can still be altered and changed that's why the TVA exists in the first place.

 

[Dalesean027]

Okay with that though TVA agents are able to travel multiversal distances and throughout time, Standard Equipment timeline resetting devices, Time Twister and collar that work together to loop opponents in time with a button press, Baton that can make opponents move at 1/16th speed and possibly EE opponents(whatever it is ignores durability).

 

[Lollipop_The_King]

Spoiler: Loki Episode 1

The Loki episode ruined the whole MCU.
The Infinity Stones being cheap collectible items ruins the stakes of Endgame. Now Black Widow's death, which was explicitly a one time thing, now is worthless

The TVA controlling the timeline removes free will, which is a massive screwup and cheapens Infinity War/Endgame due to how that movie was based on the many possibilities of the future.

Loki may get MCU Tier 2, but even if it gave us High 1-A MCU with every hax in existence they just ruined the entire saga

On today's thread, once again, Blue jumps the ******* gun.

 

[Dalesean027]

Okay with that though TVA agents are able to travel multiversal distances and throughout time, Standard Equipment timeline resetting devices, Time Twister and collar that work together to loop opponents in time with a button press, Baton that can make opponents move at 1/16th speed and possibly EE opponents(whatever it is ignores durability).

This is for the civilization page for standard agents ofc

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I disagree, because the 1 in 14 million does the same thing, makes it predetermined, on top of that time can still be altered and changed that's why the TVA exists in the first place.

Incorrect, as it was made clear 1/14 million is a possibility, there was a chance the timeline wouldn't be like that and thanos would win. But now the show makes it clear that there was no stakes, there was no chance of them losing as it was all predetermined they would win.

 

[Dalesean027]

But now the show makes it clear that there was no stakes, there was no chance of them losing as it was all predetermined they would win.

They literally only say that the avengers time traveling didn't violate anything involving the TVA and that it's supposed to happen in the sense that it didn't cause any changes or branches in the timeline(don't forget they set everything back to normal and made sure no changes would occur) and logically the TVA would allow this to slide as they aren't branching off and thus wouldn't require any intervention whereas Loki taking the tesseract would set things into motion and would spawn branches that could threaten a multiverse again

 

[OwenVaunman]

That's what I was tryna say

They literally only say that the avengers time traveling didn't violate anything involving the TVA and that it's supposed to happen in the sense that it didn't cause any changes or branches in the timeline(don't forget they set everything back to normal and made sure no changes would occur) and logically the TVA would allow this to slide as they aren't branching off and thus wouldn't require any intervention whereas Loki taking the tesseract would set things into motion and would spawn branches that could threaten a multiverse again

you're good about taking the words out of my mouth

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Hoping things go the same way with love and thunder since it was said that that's going to be the strongest Thor's we've seen thus far in the MCU which couples with the fact that it had to be seeing as we're getting gorr

Speaking of Thor villains where’s the Midgard serpent at

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Actually, if the TVA controlled all that happened in the timeline, including time heists by the Avengers and Thanos, why would mistakes like Loki escaping have been allowed to happen?

Maybe there is still some degree of free will?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Actually, if the TVA controlled all that happened in the timeline, including time heists by the Avengers and Thanos, why would mistakes like Loki escaping have been allowed to happen?

Maybe there is still some degree of free will?

Because those events where meant to happen well loki escaping wasn’t

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

If they control the events that happen though, so why would they let "events that weren't meant to happen" happen?

Unless they melt everyone that goes wrong like blue said?

 

[Dalesean027]

I believe this is what the show will tackle in some manner because in some way we'll have to see if this is a facade that the TVA has concocted that the notion of free will is an illusion and that instead they are indeed as Loki says they are and are determining on their own what they believe to be the correct path for their "sacred timeline" and if so things may fall apart within the TVA which may tie into Spider-Man No Way Home and Dr strange Multiverse of Madness. That's just me spitballing some speculations as where this is going ofc anything else

 

[Dalesean027]

All we know right now to be honest is that we know nothing not anything for certain not other than what we've been told which makes for good discussion

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

That also brings up something that irked me slightly, from a perspective of justice it seems kinda ****** up that time "criminals" Loki have to get tried and executed for, at least from their perspective, simply choosing to do something that they did not know was the "wrong" course of events.

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah it's definitely unfair because one will never consciously know what the "correct" flow of events will be and what choices will or will not be liked by the TVA and what determines the path of events that they are to follow

 

[Dalesean027]

We did see Loki fighting TVA agents in the trailer so for all we know this could take a entire shift against their brand of justice

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I’m interested to see where and how Loki (the show) decides to go forward. I really hope the show explores more into the theme of free will and the ability of one to decide their own future/fate, because the show did partially make the point (at least from Loki’s perspective) about the unfairness of the TVA’s actions of executing people for “crimes” they had no malicious intent or knowledge in doing and the way that “the time keepers” decide what is supposed to happen and what isn’t.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

If they control the events that happen though, so why would they let "events that weren't meant to happen" happen?

Unless they melt everyone that goes wrong like blue said?

Um they don’t control events they keep the order by rectifying said events the ones in control would be the time keepers(to a degree I guess)

 

[Coolboy6]

We all know that noobmaster69 is going to be Loki’s greatest foe yet

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I’m interested to see where and how Loki (the show) decides to go forward. I really hope the show explores more into the theme of free will and the ability of one to decide their own future/fate, because the show did partially make the point (at least from Loki’s perspective) about the unfairness of the TVA’s actions of executing people for “crimes” they had no malicious intent or knowledge in doing and the way that “the time keepers” decide what is supposed to happen and what isn’t.

Tom Hiddleston seems to tease that in this interview 13:20

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

The TVA most likely aren't human, but rather just look like em.

They were created by the time keepers its said in the show.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

They were created by the time keepers its said in the show.

I'm aware. Like I said, the TVA most likely aren't human, but rather merely look like them.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I loved that little emotional scene where Loki was crying. With that said.

**** the TVA and those lizard mfs. Loki has single handedly shown that everything our beloved characters have done is meaningless and no one has actual free will in the MCU.

Also, paperweights? Give me a ******* break.

 

[Coolboy6]

If the freaking infinity stones are being used as paperweights, then there must be something far more powerful than those

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I doubt Disney would merely toss aside all that infinity stone build up without following up with something much bigger or displaying something later that provides more context showing that infinity stones aren't actually useless.

We have 5 more episodes left, relax a bit.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I doubt Disney would merely toss aside all that infinity stone build up without following up with something much bigger or displaying something later that provides more context showing that infinity stones aren't actually useless.

We have 5 more episodes left, relax a bit.

Of course they wouldn't leave it at THAT



































They will just make it way worse

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I doubt Disney would merely toss aside all that infinity stone build up without following up with something much bigger or displaying something later that provides more context showing that infinity stones aren't actually useless.

That doesn’t mean anything. You don’t have to turn the infinity stones into a joke just to build something up. I hate when writers make something look bad just to look good.
“My friends sacrificed their lives for these stones. What’s that? They’re merely paperweights to you people? What’s that? All this is supposed to happen, ultimately making our choices meaningless?”
“Ye dude!! Btw what’s a fish? :v”

We have 5 more episodes left, relax a bit.

And this is what worries me. This one episode managed to break time travel even more than before.

How are the Avengers chances 14 million to 1 if every other timeline is an exact copy of the main timeline?

Why are there multiple timelines that aren’t any different from each other? Wouldn’t that risk more deviations in other timelines giving the TVA more work by looking over a shit ton other timelines?

Why aren’t the Avengers facing any consequences? They’re the reason for the deviations of other timelines. They allowed Loki to escape, ******* the 2012 timeline, and the completely ****** the 2014 by removing Thanos and his entire army. Not to mention 2013 Thor losing his hammer. He’s probably dead because of that lmao.

How the hell did Steve return the infinity stones to where they were if the TVA are resetting those timelines due to variants the Avengers caused? There’s no point in returning an infinity stone to a timeline that’s been reset. Even if you argue they weren’t reset, that just makes it worse. Cap returning the stones by itself would cause deviations because that never happened in the main timeline. Even something as little as being late for work is a deviation, but cause and effect due to time travel isn’t apparently.

What’s the point of the TVA having an entire court system if they’re gonna vaporize you any? Don’t have a ticket? Get vaporized. Don’t sign papers? Get vaporized. Don’t want to comply? Get vaporized. Do everything they say? Get vaporized. It’s such stupid redundant asinine bull shit that without it, the plot would be done with in seconds. If Loki is a deviation, simply erase him and reset the timeline. Don’t show him all these alternatives and allow him to have opportunities to escape. The TVA are a bunch of foolish assholes that drag all the BS just to be dicks. I don’t even see the point of the TVA when the lizard gods could just fix everything lol.

The TVA can look into the past present and future. They can predict your every move yet they get duped by Loki and react with a surprised Pikachu face.

Loki goes through an entire character arc in mere minutes. You have Lightning McQueen pestering Loki over and over again with “why do you do the things you do mang?” Then Loki watches his alternative self and suddenly changes. This is not only forced and rushed but people don’t do that. If I was a tyrant and a random dude showed me a video of my future self giving out cookies to lil kids as a completely changed person, I’d call you crazy and call that video fake. That’s not how arcs work. It took Loki a while to warm up to Thor and when they finally started getting along, he died. That made is arc more impactful. But now all we gotta do to develop our characters is show them a lil video and suddenly their entire motivations, character, and everything they stand for changes in a heartbeat. Not to mention Loki telling his true feelings but not showing them is horrible writing. Show don’t tell! This should’ve been something shown at the end of the series so we could see it develop. Then it’ll give more of an understanding of prime Loki’s motives, making his arc pay off a lot more.

So what’s next? This episode was a boring exposition dump that broke the whole verse and ****** one of my favorite characters. All. In. One. Episode!

This was a horrible start and I horrified what the future unfolds. This is one of the worst things added to the MCU and it stand by that.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

That doesn’t mean anything. You don’t have to turn the infinity stones into a joke just to build something up. I hate when writers make something look bad just to look good.
“My friends sacrificed their lives for these stones. What’s that? They’re merely paperweights to you people? What’s that? All this is supposed to happen, ultimately making our choices meaningless?”
“Ye dude!! Btw what’s a fish? :v”

And this is what worries me. This one episode managed to break time travel even more than before.

How are the Avengers chances 14 million to 1 if every other timeline is an exact copy of the main timeline?

Why are there multiple timelines that aren’t any different from each other? Wouldn’t that risk more deviations in other timelines giving the TVA more work by looking over a shit ton other timelines?

Why aren’t the Avengers facing any consequences? They’re the reason for the deviations of other timelines. They allowed Loki to escape, ******* the 2012 timeline, and the completely ****** the 2014 by removing Thanos and his entire army. Not to mention 2013 Thor losing his hammer. He’s probably dead because of that lmao.

How the hell did Steve return the infinity stones to where they were if the TVA are resetting those timelines due to variants the Avengers caused? There’s no point in returning an infinity stone to a timeline that’s been reset. Even if you argue they weren’t reset, that just makes it worse. Cap returning the stones by itself would cause deviations because that never happened in the main timeline. Even something as little as being late for work is a deviation, but cause and effect due to time travel isn’t apparently.

What’s the point of the TVA having an entire court system if they’re gonna vaporize you any? Don’t have a ticket? Get vaporized. Don’t sign papers? Get vaporized. Don’t want to comply? Get vaporized. Do everything they say? Get vaporized. It’s such stupid redundant asinine bull shit that without it, the plot would be done with in seconds. If Loki is a deviation, simply erase him and reset the timeline. Don’t show him all these alternatives and allow him to have opportunities to escape. The TVA are a bunch of foolish assholes that drag all the BS just to be dicks. I don’t even see the point of the TVA when the lizard gods could just fix everything lol.

The TVA can look into the past present and future. They can predict your every move yet they get duped by Loki and react with a surprised Pikachu face.

Loki goes through an entire character arc in mere minutes. You have Lightning McQueen pestering Loki over and over again with “why do you do the things you do mang?” Then Loki watches his alternative self and suddenly changes. This is not only forced and rushed but people don’t do that. If I was a tyrant and a random dude showed me a video of my future self giving out cookies to lil kids as a completely changed person, I’d call you crazy and call that video fake. That’s not how arcs work. It took Loki a while to warm up to Thor and when they finally started getting along, he died. That made is arc more impactful. But now all we gotta do to develop our characters is show them a lil video and suddenly their entire motivations, character, and everything they stand for changes in a heartbeat. Not to mention Loki telling his true feelings but not showing them is horrible writing. Show don’t tell! This should’ve been something shown at the end of the series so we could see it develop. Then it’ll give more of an understanding of prime Loki’s motives, making his arc pay off a lot more.

So what’s next? This episode was a boring exposition dump that broke the whole verse and ****** one of my favorite characters. All. In. One. Episode!

This was a horrible start and I horrified what the future unfolds. This is one of the worst things added to the MCU and it stand by that.

*******
THANK YOU!

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Loki goes through an entire character arc in mere minutes. You have Lightning McQueen pestering Loki over and over again with “why do you do the things you do mang?” Then Loki watches his alternative self and suddenly changes. This is not only forced and rushed but people don’t do that. If I was a tyrant and a random dude showed me a video of my future self giving out cookies to lil kids as a completely changed person, I’d call you crazy and call that video fake. That’s not how arcs work. It took Loki a while to warm up to Thor and when they finally started getting along, he died. That made is arc more impactful. But now all we gotta do to develop our characters is show them a lil video and suddenly their entire motivations, character, and everything they stand for changes in a heartbeat. Not to mention Loki telling his true feelings but not showing them is horrible writing. Show don’t tell! This should’ve been something shown at the end of the series so we could see it develop. Then it’ll give more of an understanding of prime Loki’s motives, making his arc pay off a lot more.

It barely passed when they did it to Thanos in Endgame but keep doing it again is lazy

 

[DuDE01010]

Yo it looks like you guys have seen the whole series. Could one of u send a link? i've only got ep 1.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Lol no we're just speculating

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Well as I said we can only hope that this is done on purpose to setup the series (fortunately Hiddleston seems to imply that in the Kimmel interview I linked) or else the whole franchise is kinda ****** by this.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Well as I said we can only hope that this is done on purpose to setup the series (fortunately Hiddleston seems to imply that in the Kimmel interview I linked) or else the whole franchise is kinda ****** by this.

There's literally no way to un-**** the MCU because the Time Lizards have already caused every single event to take place exactly the way they want and even if Loki somehow completely eradicates them and gives Free Will back to the Verse, things have been permanently Uber ****** because nothing before that is different.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

There's literally no way to un-**** the MCU because the Time Lizards have already caused every single event to take place exactly the way they want and even if Loki somehow completely eradicates them and gives Free Will back to the Verse, things have been permanently Uber ****** because nothing before that is different.

They maybe able to if they go like "Well, the TVA were bluffing and they did it to scare people and were evil", ANYTHING to negate the free will being controlled part

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

They maybe able to if they go like "Well, the TVA were bluffing and they did it to scare people and were evil", ANYTHING to negate the free will being controlled part

They weren't bluffing because they literally melted a guy because he slightly stepped out of the Line to get his Ticket for a Trial or whatever it was for. The only way for this to be fixed is if Loki is in some kind of extremely ****** up Simulation or Mind Prison or something that makes the TVA not actually real and didn't exist.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The only way for this to be fixed is if Loki is in some kind of extremely ****** up Simulation or Mind Prison or something that makes the TVA not actually real and didn't exist.

Then just do that

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Then just do that

Yes, please let that be the case.