MCU Phase 4 General Discussion Thread

[Dalesean027]

Spoiler

Sylvie has memory manipulation (able to see hundreds of years in the targets past), illusion creation(creates illusions in the minds of her targets through physical contact), Magic(obviously), Mind Control and Mind Manipulation ( from her bodyswapping control of the mind control in episode 2 and control over her victims actions through touch in Episode 3), Superhuman Physical Characteristics relative to our main Loki Variant.

Our Loki first and foremost for some reason doesn't have Magic listed on his profile which is a obvious like weird thing to not have as most of his abilities are magic and stated to be such but that aside our Loki apparently has his own resistances to memory manipulation and mind manipulation, his creation, transmutation, and Telekinesis should all be expanded to more than just his daggers on his profile now because of holy hell all the stuff he does in episode 3 and onward, and him being able to casually lift large parts of a collapsed building with his TK should be noted under his LS , He has also now displayed the ability to shoot magic blast which would now grant him Energy Projection

Newer Additions
Our Loki now has memory manipulation and mind manipulation now after awakening his powers to Enchant(literally the same as Sylvie's), limited fire manipulation via. Flame dagger, Teleportation should now be listed as one of Loki's techniques

Alioth
Either Large Size type 2 or 3, Acausality type 1, Self-Sustenance Type 1, Possible Existence Erasure, Matter Manipulation, Energy Absorption, Possible Void Manipulation.

This is all I have atm things have been updated as of Episode 5 so yeah give feedback accordingly.

Alright things have been updated so I'd appreciate critique

 

[Dalesean027]

I have a theory as to who's behind everything, although my comic knowledge isn't the best so I could be wrong.

The Watchers: Don't like to get involved and mainly observe key events in the timeline. Obviously it makes sense they'd want to keep things as they should be and use others to do their work for them so that they don't get involved directly. They also are pretty powerful so they'd have the means to set everything up that we've seen so far.

that's actually the first I've heard this take and its really refreshing to see honestly that would be a twist

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Imho, it's doesn't make sense to involve Kang till his appearance in Ant man and the Wasp. I don't necessarily want him to be the next super big bad either, he just doesn't give me that vibe like Galactus, Doom or Thanos does. I can definitely see him being an avengers level threat though.

 

[Coolboy6]

Shouldn’t the Lokis get Non-Physical Interaction for being able to touch Alioth?

 

[Dalesean027]

Shouldn’t the Lokis get Non-Physical Interaction for being able to touch Alioth?

Yea they should since he is intangible at the very least and can't be touched by conventional attacks. Alioth's void is described as a place where "every single instance of existence collides at a single point and stops" and its also said that he can devour entire branched realities "instantly" so his Large size may vary, he may have possibly acausality type 4 or 5 upon further inspection.

 

[Dalesean027]

Spoiler

Sylvie has memory manipulation (able to see hundreds of years in the targets past), illusion creation(creates illusions in the minds of her targets through physical contact), Magic(obviously), Mind Control and Mind Manipulation ( from her bodyswapping control of the mind control in episode 2 and control over her victims actions through touch in Episode 3), Superhuman Physical Characteristics relative to our main Loki Variant.

Our Loki first and foremost for some reason doesn't have Magic listed on his profile which is a obvious like weird thing to not have as most of his abilities are magic and stated to be such but that aside our Loki apparently has his own resistances to memory manipulation and mind manipulation, his creation, transmutation, and Telekinesis should all be expanded to more than just his daggers on his profile now because of holy hell all the stuff he does in episode 3 and onward, and him being able to casually lift large parts of a collapsed building with his TK should be noted under his LS , He has also now displayed the ability to shoot magic blast which would now grant him Energy Projection

Newer Additions
Our Loki now has memory manipulation and mind manipulation now after awakening his powers to Enchant(literally the same as Sylvie's), limited fire manipulation via. Flame dagger, Non-Physical Interaction (able to touch Alioth through enchantment) Teleportation should now be listed as one of Loki's techniques

Sylvie
Non-Physical Interaction (for the same reasons)

Alioth
Large Size type 2 or 3 (possibly varies up to type 8) , Acausality type 1 (possibly type 4 or 5, need more feedback) , Self-Sustenance Type 1, Possible Existence Erasure, Matter Manipulation, Energy Absorption, Possible Void Manipulation, Intangibility, possibly Incorporeal. Possible 3-A rating.

This is all I have atm things have been updated as of Episode 5 so yeah give feedback accordingly.

This is the latest updated version

 

[PsychoWarper]

I could maybe see the watchers, especially since we know they are in Marvel.

 

[Dalesean027]

I don't think anything more needs to be said for this just watch it

 

[PsychoWarper]

Aye Zombie verse, also I hoe we see Old King Thor, think that would be awesome.

 

[Imaginym]

Yea they should since he is intangible at the very least and can't be touched by conventional attacks. Alioth's void is described as a place where "every single instance of existence collides at a single point and stops" and its also said that he can devour entire branched realities "instantly" so his Large size may vary, he may have possibly acausality type 4 or 5 upon further inspection.

My memory may be mistaken, but....
The episode also had Sylvie compare trying to kill Alioth as killing a cloud with paper cuts or such? Such a statement may be valuable as justification, if it isn't too flowery language.
Sylvie may also have resistance to whatever Alioth does? Destruction? Matter Manipulation? It's said it eats matter & energy.

I recommend going to the scene when Alioth attacks the crew of the USS Eldridge: We get a close-up shot of a couple of them being affected by Alioth, & going in slow motion or frame by frame for that scene may help us determine the process it goes through in affecting things.

Also, wasn't there a scene in an early episode where Loki tells Mobius & other TVA employees about some differences about how his magic works, & mentions it working on the molecules or something?
Could someone get those exact statements, please? Especially if they're not already on his profile?

By the way, when is the Loki fires an energy blast part from? I hope you aren't mixed up about the illusion Old Loki cast during the Loki fight at the base.

 

[OwenVaunman]

no Loki uses magic blasts in multiple fight scenes like at the end of episode 3 and I think in the fight betwixt all the Lokis in episode 5

 

[Imaginym]

no Loki uses magic blasts in multiple fight scenes like at the end of episode 3 and I think in the fight betwixt all the Lokis in episode 5

Good to know. Thank you! Here's hoping someone can help with my other concerns, if that's not too much bother or trouble.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

So are we just going to ignore that in at least one timeline, Loki successfully killed his brother... as a kid?

 

[Dalesean027]

My memory may be mistaken, but....
The episode also had Sylvie compare trying to kill Alioth as killing a cloud with paper cuts or such? Such a statement may be valuable as justification, if it isn't too flowery language.
Sylvie may also have resistance to whatever Alioth does? Destruction? Matter Manipulation? It's said it eats matter & energy.

I recommend going to the scene when Alioth attacks the crew of the USS Eldridge: We get a close-up shot of a couple of them being affected by Alioth, & going in slow motion or frame by frame for that scene may help us determine the process it goes through in affecting things.

Also, wasn't there a scene in an early episode where Loki tells Mobius & other TVA employees about some differences about how his magic works, & mentions it working on the molecules or something?
Could someone get those exact statements, please? Especially if they're not already on his profile?

By the way, when is the Loki fires an energy blast part from? I hope you aren't mixed up about the illusion Old Loki cast during the Loki fight at the base.

Give me a minute and I can get to you on these

no Loki uses magic blasts in multiple fight scenes like at the end of episode 3 and I think in the fight betwixt all the Lokis in episode 5

And yeah this happens in episode 3

So are we just going to ignore that in at least one timeline, Loki successfully killed his brother... as a kid?

I honestly don't know how to talk about that facts I've seen people write it off as him killing kid Thor so I'm not even sure what to think since it's left vague with details on the Thor he killed

 

[Imaginym]

Sylvie may also have resistance to whatever Alioth does? Destruction? Matter Manipulation? It's said it eats matter & energy.

Derp. I realize I forgot to clarify why I think this. For those somehow unaware, when she arrives, she's mentally in contact with it, briefly, but, IIRC, she's usually been shown to need physical contact with someone to also get mental contact, not to mention, Alioth's clouds seemed to be all around her.
So unless she was enveloped to the point that she should've been getting literally destroyed, despite AFAIK, no stated reason for her to not be getting destroyed....
Well, I'd assume that either she was on the verge of being about to be devoured, or she had a limited exposure, & thus, a limited resistance.

So I should clarify I feel that it's probably a Limited Resistance, but still a Resistance nonetheless, since again, either limited exposure, or resistance with no explanation.

Give me a minute and I can get to you on these

Thank you very much.

And yeah this happens in episode 3

I honestly don't know how to talk about that facts I've seen people write it off as him killing kid Thor so I'm not even sure what to think since it's left vague with details on the Thor he killed

I mean, how much more absurd is it than a Loki somehow becoming worthy enough to get Thor's Legendary Hammer Mjolnir?
Or the absurdity that a "President" Loki even temporarily rallied such a treacherous army of other Lokis behind him?
Or that the gator Loki somehow came to an understanding to ally with Worthy, Old & Kid Loki?
OR even the tiny Loki trapped in the jar mere feet away underground from Mjolnir's hammer? ....Speaking of, what the heck? He was trying to get out of the jar, but unless it was sticking out the side of a cliff, he wouldn't be able to see the hammer, & even if he escaped the jar, he'd still be trapped under tons of dirt & junk. What the heck was going on with that Loki?

Kid Loki killing Thor might be weird, but it's hardly that horrific.
Heck, I'd dare argue that Old Loki's backstory as to how he met with the TVA is more horrifying.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

So are we just going to ignore that in at least one timeline, Loki successfully killed his brother... as a kid?

"There was one time when we were children he- he transformed himself into a snake, and he knows that I love snakes, so I went to pick up the snake to admire it and he transformed back into himself and was like 'YEAH IT'S ME' and then he stabbed me. We were eight at the time."

 

[Dalesean027]

Also, wasn't there a scene in an early episode where Loki tells Mobius & other TVA employees about some differences about how his magic works, & mentions it working on the molecules or something?
Could someone get those exact statements, please? Especially if they're not already on his profile?

For context mobius says "illusion -projection" as an ability Loki has mistaking what he's actually doing, here's the conversation on the matter:

Loki: "Duplication-Casting."

Mobius confused responds again saying "Illusion Projection."

Loki clarifies saying "No, They're two completely different powers actually. "

Mobius ask "how?" and Loki responds stating

"Illusion-Projection involves depicting a detailed image from outside oneself, which is perceptible in the external world whereas Duplication-Casting entails recreating an exact facsimile of one's own body in it's present circumstance, which acts as a true hologram mirror of it's molecular structure."

That's all there is to it for that

 

[PsychoWarper]

So are we just going to ignore that in at least one timeline, Loki successfully killed his brother... as a kid?

Not to surprising, we know Loki and Thor are generally around the same age so seeing that that Loki is quite young so was Thor more than likely, we know Loki played alot of pranks on Thor including times where he stabbed him.

One wrong stab at the wrong time could kill even Thor especially as a kid.

 

[Dalesean027]

The episode also had Sylvie compare trying to kill Alioth as killing a cloud with paper cuts or such? Such a statement may be valuable as justification, if it isn't too flowery language.

this could work along with the eldritch not being able to physically harm it by normal means.

Derp. I realize I forgot to clarify why I think this. For those somehow unaware, when she arrives, she's mentally in contact with it, briefly, but, IIRC, she's usually been shown to need physical contact with someone to also get mental contact, not to mention, Alioth's clouds seemed to be all around her.
So unless she was enveloped to the point that she should've been getting literally destroyed, despite AFAIK, no stated reason for her to not be getting destroyed....
Well, I'd assume that either she was on the verge of being about to be devoured, or she had a limited exposure, & thus, a limited resistance.

Yeah I agree to this, she even states that they made brief contact with each other. It does envelope her and then dissipates lettings her go after her brief enchantment

 

[Dalesean027]

I recommend going to the scene when Alioth attacks the crew of the USS Eldridge: We get a close-up shot of a couple of them being affected by Alioth, & going in slow motion or frame by frame for that scene may help us determine the process it goes through in affecting things.

looking back it appears to be some sort of aging or decay ability, it leaves metals rusted after contact and anything else is completely erased however looking at how the Eldridge crew dies they're definitely either being decayed or what's more likely absorbed to the point where they're skeletons and then to nothing.

 

[Imaginym]

For context mobius says "illusion -projection" as an ability Loki has mistaking what he's actually doing, here's the conversation on the matter:

Loki: "Duplication-Casting."

Mobius confused responds again saying "Illusion Projection."

Loki clarifies saying "No, They're two completely different powers actually. "

Mobius ask "how?" and Loki responds stating

"Illusion-Projection involves depicting a detailed image from outside oneself, which is perceptible in the external world whereas Duplication-Casting entails recreating an exact facsimile of one's own body in it's present circumstance, which acts as a true hologram mirror of it's molecular structure."

That's all there is to it for that

Thank you. So it sounds like Loki can... use magical holograms to "mirror" (I presume he means "make an exact visual likeness/replica of".) the molecular structure of things?

this could work along with the eldritch not being able to physically harm it by normal means.

Pardon my petty pedantry pointing-out, please, but it's Eldridge. Sorry.

Yeah I agree to this, she even states that they made brief contact with each other. It does envelope her and then dissipates lettings her go after her brief enchantment

Given the mental nature of her enchantment/telepathic abilties, I'd be very confident she's referring to mental contact, as opposed to physical proximity contact.
Is there other content that can support her having been more certainly in physical contact?

But yeah, it may be good to get a GIF or such showing off her being eveloped & then it dissipating; I think it'd be useful to be able to link on the profile. For one, it shows off that she can make mental contact with such atypical beings on short notice.
That said, if it dissipates after the mental contact, it could be out of shock/alarm/fright/confusion. There's definitely support for Alioth having a psyche, since it doesn't abandon its duty of hiding the base until effectively mind controlled, & we've seen it can be distracted & can have focus on things.

It could be that it didn't start affecting Sylvie because the mental contact with her made it lose focus on trying to devour her before it could. But of course, if Sylvie's powers do still seem to require some kind of physical contact to achieve mental contact.

So I'd still say I approve Limited Resistance at least, since she was in physical(?) contact long enough to make mental contact, albeit seemingly briefly, & that mental contact is that which caused a reaction in Alioth, making it dissipate, presumably because of something about that mental contact.

looking back it appears to be some sort of aging or decay ability, it leaves metals rusted after contact and anything else is completely erased however looking at how the Eldridge crew dies they're definitely either being decayed or what's more likely absorbed to the point where they're skeletons and then to nothing.

I think this could be plausible. If "The Void" (IIRC, that's what they call where Loki is sent to.) is meant to be "the end of time" & there's some kind of deception of the TVA going on by whoever our mastermind is, then a rapid aging effect to destroy things would make sense.

After all, if you're at a place you (perhaps falsely?) tell your deceived servants is called the "End of Time", how better to get rid of undesirable things than by aging them to nothingness? If you want to keep up the ruse it's the end of time, then destroying by aging makes sense.

 

[Dalesean027]

Pardon my petty pedantry pointing-out, please, but it's Eldridge. Sorry.

Eldridge

You're fine I corrected it tho in the other message when I saw my mistake

So it sounds like Loki can... use magical holograms to "mirror" (I presume he means "make an exact visual likeness/replica of".) the molecular structure of things?

Yep basically an exact replica down to the molecular structure or in other words a True Hologram as Loki calls it

I think this could be plausible. If "The Void" (IIRC, that's what they call where Loki is sent to.) is meant to be "the end of time" & there's some kind of deception of the TVA going on by whoever our mastermind is, then a rapid aging effect to destroy things would make sense.

After all, if you're at a place you (perhaps falsely?) tell your deceived servants is called the "End of Time", how better to get rid of undesirable things than by aging them to nothingness? If you want to keep up the ruse it's the end of time, then destroying by aging makes sense.

In terms of this it is stated to consume/absorb "matter and energy"

But yeah, it may be good to get a GIF or such showing off her being eveloped & then it dissipating;

this shows it in slo mo

Given the mental nature of her enchantment/telepathic abilties, I'd be very confident she's referring to mental contact, as opposed to physical proximity contact.
Is there other content that can support her having been more certainly in physical contact?

And this could very well be both Loki and Sylvie grab it's his tendrils with their magic as they try to dual enchant Alioth, this is why non-physical interaction is on the ability list that I've compiled as otherwise Alioth is intangible and can't be combated by normal physical means

 

[Imaginym]

You're fine I corrected it tho in the other message when I saw my mistake

Ah. My apologies for not noticing your dilligence! Sorry!

Yep basically an exact replica down to the molecular structure or in other words a True Hologram as Loki calls it

A "hologram" seems like an odd choice of naming; A hologram is made of light. Even if it's solid light, that's still light, as opposed to flesh or chemicals or whatever, so I do wonder how thorough his duplication-casting is.
Is it "light" or magic or whatever being arranged/reformed into the structures of the molecules it's imitating, to imitate the properties of what it's in the likeness of?

In terms of this it is stated to consume/absorb "matter and energy"

Ah yes. Although, based on what you mentioned observing, I do wonder if it doesn't have some aging/time manipulation effect.

this shows it in slo mo

Thank you very much. I'll try to find time to look over that, assuming someone else doesn't else first. Can definitely be good to have a second or third opinion.

And this could very well be both Loki and Sylvie grab it's his tendrils with their magic as they try to dual enchant Alioth, this is why non-physical interaction is on the ability list that I've compiled as otherwise Alioth is intangible and can't be combated by normal physical means

I see. So they have NPI via their contact, as shown by them using their magic as a medium/extension of themselves to make physical contact with Alioth?

 

[OwenVaunman]

Also how did Classic Loki make it so that Thanos thought he snapped his neck? Do you think he is able to make things with physical properties and he made Asgard with physical interaction capabilities?

 

[Imaginym]

Also how did Classic Loki make it so that Thanos thought he snapped his neck? Do you think he is able to make things with physical properties and he made Asgard with physical interaction capabilities?

Well, we don't know anything about what happened with Classic Loki in that scene beyond what we told, so we'd be getting speculative.

Spoiler: Lots of words, perhaps overly speculative.

He does speak highly of magic (IIRC, sometime around when they enter the base, & he & Worthy Loki talk about blades.), & of course, given his other feats, he's a skilled illusionist.
On one hand, there's what Loki said:
"Illusion-Projection involves depicting a detailed image from outside oneself, which is perceptible in the external world whereas Duplication-Casting entails recreating an exact facsimile of one's own body in it's present circumstance, which acts as a true hologram mirror of it's molecular structure."

In theory, Classic Loki's tricking Thanos might've involved just really fine, precise control/replication or imitation of things; Maybe he created a duplicate of himself, or made an illusion so that even to senses beyond sight, his neck would seem snapped.

But on the other hand, our Loki does things like conjuring, & IIRC, Sylvie makes a point of saying her magical focus was different. Our Loki can conjure & do illusions, another Loki can enchant; It's possible Classic Loki just specialized heavily into illusions, or maybe he just burned everything he had to do that illusion of Asgard feat.


So maybe all the Lokis have different specialties, & he tricked Thanos by being really good at illusions, perhaps better than ours?

Although, there's also the matter of if him disguising himself as inanimate debris was shapeshifting, or another illusion. & how did he escape the initial neck snap anyway? Wouldn't he have been in a hold?

Plus, there was some talk in episode 5, about them saying that maybe they're all the same? So do they have the same potential? The same abilities? The same depth of precision/control of their abilities?


As for whether or not the created Asgard was physical, it's questionable. Classic Loki seems specialized in illusions, but Alioth is stated to eat matter & energy:

Did it go for the city because the magic replicated matter, like a "true hologram mirror of it's molecular structure" would?
Did it go for the city because magic is energy, & it eats energy, too?
Did it go for the city, because Alioth uses sight, too, & it saw something big & new to eat?
Did it go for the city because it has a controller who tasks it (When it's not enchanted.) & destroying this big, new Asgard was given priority? Perhaps enough that Alioth was briefly under manual control? Or does it just have a priority system like some kind of robot?

Sorry if I'm getting kind of wiffy-waffy with all this.

 

[Dalesean027]

Is it "light" or magic or whatever being arranged/reformed into the structures of the molecules it's imitating, to imitate the properties of what it's in the likeness of?

Magic as Loki's abilities are magic based

Duplication-Casting entails recreating an exact facsimile of one's own body in it's present circumstance, which acts as a true hologram mirror of it's molecular structure."

Also how did Classic Loki make it so that Thanos thought he snapped his neck? Do you think he is able to make things with physical properties and he made Asgard with physical interaction capabilities?

This explains how it could fool Thanos seeing as Loki refers to it as duplication casting that goes down to the molecular level it is quite possible that it has some level of physical interaction.

As far as that topic goes I think what's been said so far is about all that can be discussed with the information we've been given without making any further assumptions.

I see. So they have NPI via their contact, as shown by them using their magic as a medium/extension of themselves to make physical contact with Alioth?

Yep

 

[Dalesean027]

Plus, there was some talk in episode 5, about them saying that maybe they're all the same? So do they have the same potential? The same abilities? The same depth of precision/control of their abilities?

This seems to be what they're implying especially since right after that in the context of events our Loki learns how to enchant.

As for whether or not the created Asgard was physical, it's questionable. Classic Loki seems specialized in illusions, but Alioth is stated to eat matter & energy:

Did it go for the city because the magic replicated matter, like a "true hologram mirror of it's molecular structure" would?
Did it go for the city because magic is energy, & it eats energy, too?
Did it go for the city, because Alioth uses sight, too, & it saw something big & new to eat?
Did it go for the city because it has a controller who tasks it (When it's not enchanted.) & destroying this big, new Asgard was given priority? Perhaps enough that Alioth was briefly under manual control? Or does it just have a priority system like some kind of robot?

Unfortunately this gets into highly speculative territories or you would just have to make a lot of assumptions.

I think the simplest thing to this is what Loki had said that Alioth would go after the biggest meal first which he indeed shows that he does.

So maybe all the Lokis have different specialties, & he tricked Thanos by being really good at illusions, perhaps better than ours?

Yeah we know Loki's have the same general abilities as per the TVA saying so and some of what we've seen but it does seem that their focus can differ.

 

[Imaginym]

Unfortunately this gets into highly speculative territories or you would just have to make a lot of assumptions.

I think the simplest thing to this is what Loki had said that a lot would go after the biggest meal first which he indeed shows that he does.

I still do wonder how Alioth determines what is "biggest" to Alioth, though.
How does it choose between, say, a huge mass of invisible energy, or a very big mass of matter?
Big in the sense of mass, volume or density?
If it's in the sense of what's nourishing, then that just raises the question of what nourishes Alioth most?

Sadly, yeah, we probably aren't going to get answers for a lot of that, I bet.

Yeah we know Loki's have the same general abilities as per the TVA saying so and some of what we've seen but it does seem that their focus can differ.

What's on the exact quote from the TVA on this matter, if you'll pardon my asking?

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Does Alioth not devour metallic objects or something? It completely passed by the ship itself (the one with the sailors on it) and Classic Loki's helmet. The only thing it did was rust it. It kinda looked like the ship and the helmet got washed with acid rain.

 

[Lollipop_The_King]

Maybe metal isn't as filling as energy and matter?
(Yes metal is matter, you know what I meant)

 

[Coolboy6]

Does Alioth not devour metallic objects or something? It completely passed by the ship itself (the one with the sailors on it) and Classic Loki's helmet. The only thing it did was rust it. It kinda looked like the ship and the helmet got washed with acid rain.

That sounds like Corrosion Inducement to me

 

[Dalesean027]

Sadly, yeah, we probably aren't going to get answers for a lot of that, I bet.

Probably not lol

What's on the exact quote from the TVA on this matter, if you'll pardon my asking?

All of this is dialogue from Mobius speaking about Loki Variants during a TVA briefing in episode 2.

"Slight differences in appearances or not so slight. Different Powers, although, powers, generally include shape-shifting, illusion-projection, and my favorite..." gets cut off by Loki correction him on duplication and that's the end of it.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I'm guessing that maybe living beings are more preferable to regular matter

 

[Dalesean027]

Ayeee thank you all for coming please read the chats and give feedback to the discussion and the updated ability list I posted

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I'm hoping the 6-C MCU isn't that low

 

[Coolboy6]

I'm hoping the 6-C MCU isn't that low

6-C MCU is baseline

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

6-C MCU is baseline

Pretty much, wish it get upgraded slightly to higher instead baseline

 

[Dalesean027]

Pretty much, wish it get upgraded slightly to higher instead baseline

Most likely will moving forward with new feats

 

[Coolboy6]

Pretty much, wish it get upgraded slightly to higher instead baseline

Yep, I know
That’s why characters like Wanda and Hela have an “at least” rating

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Most likely will moving forward with new feats

Which feats?

Yep, I know
That’s why characters like Wanda and Hela have an “at least” rating

But that only applied to Wanda and Hela, right? Even Thanos without his IG is only baseline