Lets come back to this: One Piece downgrade thread

[Vzearr]

Calculation:​

Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Bajrang Gun.​

Problem:​

1. I believe this breaks the rules of our "Cinematic Time" page. Lets quote the main rule this falls under:​

Cinematic time should not be used if the time-frame the event of interest happens in occurs during a time-frame that is suggested to be sped up in any way and a cut is involved.​

Self explanatory I believe.

2. Luffy didn't move 180 degrees within a single frame. During these frames we see Kaido being pushed forward, however, during these frames we see Kaido being pushed to the left, which would suggest Luffy's rotational movement was taking place during the latter and not just a single frame like the calc suggests.

3. Minor change but, animation studios animate in 24 FPS, not 25.
​

Note/Question: Doesn't Luffy inflate his fist with air? Would his fist really be made up of 80% rubber?

 

[CloverDragon03]

1. Not sure how this is relevant to the calc
2. Yeah he did. He see Luffy punching forward at Kaido's face, then on the next frame, his arm is shown swung back around him
3. So true, the calc is dead

 

[Vzearr]

Not sure how this is relevant to the calc

It would make the calc invalid due to the cinematic time of the event not being displayed accurately.

Yeah he did. He see Luffy punching forward at Kaido's face, then on the next frame, his arm is shown swung back around him

Did you not read what I said?

So true, the calc is dead

I specified it was a minor change.

 

[SnookB]

Note/Question: Doesn't Luffy inflate his fist with air? Would his fist really be made up of 80% rubber?

Not in Gear 5. His fist and whole body don't need air anymore. Kinda the point of being free and shapeshifting how he wishes.

Luffy didn't move 180 degrees within a single frame.

You realize if Kaido's face/clash wasn't in the way, Luffy would do exactly that, right? Whole point is that he could go from facing straight down (with his fist) to decompressing and going over his own head in a frame. Same way he swung the fist from behind his head and down at kaido in an equally short timeframe at the beginning of the clash

 

[Vzearr]

You realize if Kaido's face/clash wasn't in the way, Luffy would do exactly that, right?

You've misunderstood what I'm saying.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It would make the calc invalid due to the cinematic time of the event not being displayed accurately.

What about the sequence invalidates it...? Like you can't just go "self-explanatory" and expect me to take your word for it

Did you not read what I said?

That's certainly a way to start a rebuttal...

To the left, though? That's just a change from a forward view to a side view. I don't really see your point here

I specified it was a minor change.

All jokes

 

[Vzearr]

What about the sequence invalidates it...? Like you can't just go "self-explanatory" and expect me to take your word for it

The time-frame is suggested to be sped up and there is a cut involved.

That's certainly a way to start a rebuttal...

You didn't even give me anything to refute.

To the left, though? That's just a change from a forward view to a side view. I don't really see your point here

If Kaido continued to go forward here then we would see him drift further from the screen, not to the left of the screen.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The time-frame is suggested to be sped up and there is a cut involved.

I think I see what you're saying with the cut, but where is the timeframe suggested to be sped up

If Kaido continued to go forward here then we would see him drift further from the screen, not to the left of the screen.

He did continue to go forward. His cheek is further left on the screen, indicating he didn't just go left, but still forward as well

 

[Vzearr]

I think I see what you're saying with the cut, but where is the timeframe suggested to be sped up

Do you see it better watching this video? If not I can explain it.

He did continue to go forward. His cheek is further left on the screen, indicating he didn't just go left, but still forward as well

The fact he's going left would mean Luffy's rotational movement began during those frames XD.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Do you see it better watching this video? If not I can explain it.

It just comes off as fast movement to me, rather than being "artificially sped up." Not to mention the line for that's pretty blurry

The fact he's going left would mean Luffy's rotational movement began during those frames XD.

I think I see what you mean in that case

 

[Vzearr]

It just comes off as fast movement to me, rather than being "artificially sped up." Not to mention the line for that's pretty blurry

He goes from relatively normal movement to insanely fast movement. If that isn't sped up, I don't know what is.

I think I see what you mean in that case

 

[CloverDragon03]

He goes from relatively normal movement to insanely fast movement. If that isn't sped up, I don't know what is.

I mean we clearly don't see it the same way, so agree to disagree I suppose

 

[CloverDragon03]

Btw going by this I count 11 frames

 

[Damage3245]

I'll follow this for now but may not be able to comment right away.

 

[Vzearr]

Btw going by this I count 11 frames

I count 10, could you show me what you did?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I count 10, could you show me what you did?

When did you start the count? That might be the difference. I started it from the frame where the scene transitioned to Kaido's face moving

 

[Damage3245]

I count 10, could you show me what you did?

So you're proposing we use 0.41666666666 seconds for the timeframe of the K.E. calc?

 

[Vzearr]

When did you start the count? That might be the difference. I started it from the frame where the scene transitioned to Kaido's face moving

Video I use.
Frame count.

So you're proposing we use 0.41666666666 seconds for the timeframe of the K.E. calc?

I still believe it breaks our cinematic time page rules. However, if calc group members disagree then yes.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Video I use.
Frame count.

Yeah, I see it now. 10 frames is fine

 

[Vzearr]

Bump.

 

[Damage3245]

If you can present a re-calc in a blog using the corrected timeframe we could get that evaluated.

 

[Vzearr]

If you can present a re-calc in a blog using the corrected timeframe we could get that evaluated.

I bumped this because I still believe it breaks the rules of our cinematic time page. I was hoping to get more opinions on it, but I'll make a recalc tonight.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Since the change is so minor, would it not be easier to just ask KT to change the 1/25 to 10/24 in the blog?

 

[KingTempest]

I'm not changing it at all based on that tragically shit misunderstanding

I measured the time it took for the arm to go from "in front" to "the back". 10/11 of those frames were the arm in the front still moving pixel portions repeatedly zoomed in.

Nothing's changing on my end. If you want to use that timeframe then calc the distance moved in the first 10 frames, don't try to find a random timeframe for a feat not being utilized.

 

[Vzearr]

I measured the time it took for the arm to go from "in front" to "the back". 10/11 of those frames were the arm in the front still moving pixel portions repeatedly zoomed in.

Luffy didn't move 180 degrees within a single frame. During these frames we see Kaido being pushed forward, however, during these frames we see Kaido being pushed to the left, which would suggest Luffy's rotational movement was taking place during the latter and not just a single frame like the calc suggests.

If Kaido's face was moving to the left, Luffy's arm would have to be rotating to make that happen. This, in turn, suggests that the number of frames you think it took for Luffy's arm to move from the front to the back is incorrect.

 

[KingTempest]

If Kaido's face was moving to the left, Luffy's arm would have to be rotating to make that happen. This, in turn, suggests that the number of frames you think it took for Luffy's arm to move from the front to the back is incorrect.

Or maybe because the frames you took were the frames when the image was zooming towards the center, moving everything to the left more left and everything to the right more right

Unless you think Luffy pulled his arm to the right and Kaido moved to the left

 

[Vzearr]

Or maybe because the frames you took were the frames when the image was zooming towards the center, moving everything to the left more left and everything to the right more right

Perhaps I would agree if Kaido's tongue wasn't also moving to the right.

 

[KingTempest]

Perhaps I would agree if Kaido's tongue wasn't also moving to the right.

Yeah because his tongue was towards the right of the central focus of the zoom.

 

[CloverDragon03]

At the very least I still maintain this 100% doesn't break our cinematic time rules. Neither the guidelines nor the examples given would imply such a thing

 

[Vzearr]

Yeah because his tongue was towards the right of the central focus of the zoom.

His tongue was extending disproportionately to him being zoomed in which would suggest his tongue was moving more to the right and it wasn't a zoom in thing.

Assuming Kaido's tooth is 3cm wide (11px).
Length of Kaido's tongue = 43px (11.727cm).

Assuming Kaido's tooth is 3cm wide (33px).
Length of Kaido's tongue = 167px (15.18cm).

 

[KingTempest]

His tongue was extending disproportionately to him being zoomed in which would suggest his tongue was moving more to the right and it wasn't a zoom in thing.

Assuming Kaido's tooth is 3cm wide (11px).
Length of Kaido's tongue = 43px (11.727cm).

Assuming Kaido's tooth is 3cm wide (33px).
Length of Kaido's tongue = 167px (15.18cm).

Does this counter the Bajrang Gun moving further and further right when the punch turns to the left?

 

[Damage3245]

I think that Vzearr is correct here. At the very least I want to see his version of the calc when it's ready.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Depending on how much of the 180 degree angle Luffy moved in those initial frames, we could cut that out and then use the remaining distance for the existing 1 frame timeframe. Judging from how it looks, that'd probably be 90 degrees taken off at most, but I'm not quite sure atm

 

[Vzearr]

Does this counter the Bajrang Gun moving further and further right when the punch turns to the left?

What?

Depending on how much of the 180 degree angle Luffy moved in those initial frames, we could cut that out and then use the remaining distance for the existing 1 frame timeframe. Judging from how it looks, that'd probably be 90 degrees taken off at most, but I'm not quite sure atm

Don't you think it's inconsistent for Luffy to suddenly move at 10 times the speed he was previously moving just because of a single frame cut? In my opinion, that's what makes it weird. According to your statement, he would move 90 degrees over the course of 10 frames, but then accelerate and cover that same distance in a tenth of the time.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Don't you think it's inconsistent for Luffy to suddenly move at 10 times the speed he was previously moving just because of a single frame cut? In my opinion, that's what makes it weird. According to your statement, he would move 90 degrees over the course of 10 frames, but then accelerate and cover that same distance in a tenth of the time.

Isn't that kinda how acceleration works? You speed up over time, so I wouldn't call it super out of the ordinary

 

[Vzearr]

Isn't that kinda how acceleration works? You speed up over time, so I wouldn't call it super out of the ordinary

Yep, but to accelerate tenfold after accelerating for 9 frames (while relying on the basis of a frame cut), makes you think that the frame cut isn't actually indicative of the timeframe for Luffy's punch.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't see why it wouldn't. When looking at the whole thing (without going frame by frame), there's a very fluid arc to Luffy's punch

 

[KingTempest]

Bro's fist is still straight ahead in the last frame before the switch

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think picking just a single frame jump for the calc is the best method. Especially because it is so zoomed in on Luffy in that shot that we don't get a good look of the rest of the fist itself. It doesn't seem reliable to say that the fist made a complete 180 degrees spin around Luffy based on those frames alone.

 

[KingTempest]

I don't think picking just a single frame jump for the calc is the best method. Especially because it is so zoomed in on Luffy in that shot that we don't get a good look of the rest of the fist itself. It doesn't seem reliable to say that the fist made a complete 180 degrees spin around Luffy based on those frames alone.

If you disagree then you disagree, but the reasoning is just bad
One frame the fist is straight, the next frame the fist is behind his back.

It being zoomed in doesn't stop it from being valid since we know the positioning of the fist, which is forward