One Piece: Gomu Gomu no Bajrang Gun reconsideration

[Thicc18]

I believe that Luffy's Bajrang Gun calc should not be considered multi-continental. I know that this is going to get a lot of hate, but I hope you guys can see my reasoning.

The argument basically relies on Luffy's fist being almost as big as Onigashima. The issue with this however is that panelling in One Piece is more often than not very inconsistent and it's not meant to scale.

Here are a few examples from these very same chapters.

On the top panels, we can see Momotsuke being somewhat comparable to Onigashima in size. And before you say that Momotsuke must simply be massive in this panel, we can see Yamato on his back. So he can't be that massive.

Literally 2 panels earlier we see her not being much smaller than him again.

Again.

And again.

And again. Bottom on the first panel we see Momotsuke's size directly compared to the island as he's pushing it. On the second panel we once again see that he's not much larger than Yamato.

By this logic, should Yamato and base Luffy's sizes be upscaled to several kilometers due to Momotsuke appearing to be relatively not so small compared to the island, much like Luffy and Kaido? Of course not.

Even Kaido's size is not consistent, as one panel he's dwarfed by Luffy's fist, the other panel his head is as big as it.

Of course, you may argue that "It's just inconsistency, Oda didn't draw it to scale.". And that's precisely the point. These panels are not consistent, and are not meant to be scaled. Unless, again, base Luffy and base Yamato will get upscaled to being kilometers tall. So it's fallacious to use the maximum possible high-ball of these panels to try to scale Luffy's fist to the size of Onigashima while ignoring the inconsistencies.

This is why I believe that the calculation should be removed. The characters may or may not be multi-continental, but I believe that this specific calc is not valid as of now. Especially when Kaido's size has never been depicted as being nearly as big as Onigashima anywhere else. I believe that we should wait until we get an official confirmation on what Gear 5 Luffy's size is, given the inconsistencies.

Link to the scans in black and white.

 

[Kachon123]

Can you swap out the unofficial colored scans with normal black and white ones please? It makes it hard to read. Also, can you just link them instead of pasting the actual image? Thanks in advance.

 

[Thicc18]

I added a link to the scans in black and white. That said, I do not wish to remove the colored scans as they make it easier to see the characters. You can of course check the black and white scans, however.

 

[Deceived3596]

Seems inconsistent ngl.

 

[Damage3245]

In general would be better to use official / black and white scans for revisions.

 

[Thicc18]

I sent a link to the same panels in black and white at the end of the post, if the colored scans are not to your liking.

The colored scans are there because they help see what's happening and the characters better.

 

[Damage3245]

I see your point though; if Momonosuke is constantly drawn at an inconsistent size when compared to Onigashima, then how can we take Luffy's fist as being drawn accurately when compared to Onigashima?

 

[Nierre]

following

 

[Damage3245]

There's actually something else to consider about the calc directly. This is the pixelscaling used currently:

If we took this panel to be drawn accurately, then Kaidou's horns would be over 2 kilometers wide (from one horn to the other) and his head would be several hundred meters wide.

That's way, way bigger than how Kaidou is normally portrayed. And if Kaidou is being drawn a lot bigger here than he normally is, then it's also possible that Luffy's enlarged fist is being depicted bigger just for effect too, and is not an accurate size.

 

[Thicc18]

There's actually something else to consider about the calc directly. This is the pixelscaling used currently:

If we took this panel to be drawn accurately, then Kaidou's horns would be over 2 kilometers wide (from one horn to the other) and his head would be several hundred meters wide.

That's way, way bigger than how Kaidou is normally portrayed. And if Kaidou is being drawn a lot bigger here than he normally is, then it's also possible that Luffy's enlarged fist is being depicted bigger just for effect too, and is not an accurate size.

Exactly. Kaido has never been depicted as being anywhere as big as this.

 

[SnookB]

It's drawn inconsistent but every shot of the fist where the fist itself is the focus has it comparable to onigashima. The first shot is Onigashima and Bajrang Gun being the closest, the second shot the island was already descending/falling so the perspective was going to change regardless.
Relying on focus shots is better (which is what the calc uses)
Kaido's consistently portrayed smaller than the fist, and him being bigger in the first main shot is more or less Oda's typical zoom-in on tiny characters by making them bigger (Zoro being visible when cutting Pica is one other instance that comes to mind)

But I'm fine with the calc itself being revisited when the anime adapts it tbh

 

[Nierre]

Yeah I agree we should remove it at least until we get the anime's portrayal of the scene. It's far too inconsistent in the manga

 

[Eminiteable]

I agree with the removal.

 

[Thicc18]

It's drawn inconsistent but every shot of the fist where the fist itself is the focus has it comparable to onigashima. The first shot is Onigashima and Bajrang Gun being the closest, the second shot the island was already descending/falling so the perspective was going to change regardless.
Relying on focus shots is better (which is what the calc uses)
Kaido's consistently portrayed smaller than the fist, and him being bigger in the first main shot is more or less Oda's typical zoom-in on tiny characters by making them bigger (Zoro being visible when cutting Pica is one other instance that comes to mind)

But I'm fine with the calc itself being revisited when the anime adapts it tbh

Considering the fact that Oda didn't draw Momotsuke and Kaido to scale here due to visual effects, I think it'a fair to say that Gear 5 Luffy's fists as well being zoom-ins.

As for Luffy's fist consistently appearing much bigger than Kaido, I beg to differ. Kaido literally bit Luffy's entire fist and for a good amount of panels was comparable to Luffy's fist in size.

 

[Damage3245]

As for Luffy's fist consistently appearing much bigger than Kaido, I beg to differ. Kaido literally bit Luffy's entire fist and for a good amount of panels was comparable to Luffy's fist in size.

Just to note that is Kaido's flame dragon mode which is larger than Kaido himself (but not ridiculously huge).

 

[SnookB]

Eh, on second thought it'd be disingenuous to just 'yes' away. We get several shots where the fist is still comparable to the island.

And only ONE where it isn't, and even then it's mostly due to it being obscured by Kaido's flame body. And Kaido's flaming body also seems bigger than the island in all three shots it's in. Smaller sizes like Momo/Kaido are just artistic zoom ins and they're extremely common in One Piece/Oda's art style. The bigger objects are what matter most for scale imo.

Is there visual inconsistency? Yes. But is it so severe that the calc itself is invalid? Probably not.
Using the widest clearest shot is for the best. But again, if the majority wanna wait on the anime I'm not against it.

 

[SnookB]

As for Luffy's fist consistently appearing much bigger than Kaido, I beg to differ. Kaido literally bit Luffy's entire fist and for a good amount of panels was comparable to Luffy's fist in size.

Kaen Daiko. Kaido's real body is inside that

 

[Sus]

if all shots show the fist as comparable in size i think its ok to keep it

 

[Damage3245]

if all shots show the fist as comparable in size i think its ok to keep it

There are other shots where we see it in comparison to Kaido and Kaido's fire dragon mode as well though. Such as here and here.

 

[Sus]

There are other shots where we see it in comparison to Kaido and Kaido's fire dragon mode as well though. Such as here and here.

smaller but still visible

and the focused & high quality panel should have more priority

i do see the point of removing it but i don't see an anti feat
yamato for example has a canon height and momo is always not that much larger than yamato, where bajrang gun is comparable to the island more often than not

 

[KingTempest]

What does Momonosuke and Yamato's inconsistencies have to do with the bajrang gun calculation

Like deadass your entire OP is just saying "they're consistent, so even though bajrang gun is consistently onigashima sized, everything else isn't"

 

[Thicc18]

where bajrang gun is comparable to the island more often than not

It's also comparable to Kaido and Momotsuke more often than not. On every scan that the fist is shown next to the island, it's also shown next to either Kaido, Momotsuke, or both. And it's not all that much bigger than them. It's inconsistent no matter how we look at it.

 

[Damage3245]

What does Momonosuke and Yamato's inconsistencies have to do with the bajrang gun calculation

Like deadass your entire OP is just saying "they're consistent, so even though bajrang gun is consistently onigashima sized, everything else isn't"

I think the OP's point is along the lines of "Everything else in the panel is drawn inconsistently compared to Onigashima, so why is this one object the only one we can assume is drawn accurately?"


To be clear, I'm not voting in favor of removing the calc or keeping it. I just think the pixelscaling is a bit sketchy.

 

[Kachon123]

It's also comparable to Kaido and Momotsuke more often than not. On every scan that the fist is shown next to the island, it's also shown next to either Kaido, Momotsuke, or both. No matter how we look at it, it's not consistent.

The dragons are consistently inconsistent in size. That has nothing to do with Bajrang Gun and its consistent shots of being comparable in size to Onigashima. The premise of your argument is flawed.

 

[KingTempest]

It's also comparable to Kaido and Momotsuke more often than not. On every scan that the fist is shown next to the island, it's also shown next to either Kaido, Momotsuke, or both. No matter how we look at it, it's not consistent.

No, someone being inconsistent to an island doesn't mean the island is inconsistent, it means that the thing is inconsistent.

The calculation of Onigashima's size doesn't utilize Momonosuke and Yamato at all. Bringing them up is completely useless.

I think the OP's point is along the lines of "Everything else in the panel is drawn inconsistently compared to Onigashima, so why is this one object the only one we can assume is drawn accurately?"

"Everything else in the panel"

When there are consistent showings of the fist being around the size of the island, the consistency of other things is hilariously useless

This is a crazy association fallacy that I'm surprised managed to get over 20 serious messages about

To be clear, I'm not voting in favor of removing the calc or keeping it. I just think the pixelscaling is a bit sketchy.

That's fair and that can use a different thread

This thread is useless to the core

Like why would "Momo's size is inconsistent" mean "Bajrang Gun's size is inconsistent"

And for everybody else, we don't need the anime for shit.

The anime is damn near tertiary canon with our rules and restrictions on using certain parts of the anime, stop acting like it takes priority.
Lately you guys have been using the anime more than the manga and every time the manga shows something you don't like, "the anime shows this".

 

[theultimate5105]

Kaido's consistently portrayed smaller than the fist, and him being bigger in the first main shot is more or less Oda's typical zoom-in on tiny characters by making them bigger (Zoro being visible when cutting Pica is one other instance that comes to mind)

tbf for this part. Zoro was a speck compared to Pica (unlike Kaido and Momonosuke who are clearly visible with detail) which is a pretty big difference

 

[Sus]

isn't the anime taking forever anyway

 

[Thicc18]

"No, someone being inconsistent to an island doesn't mean the island is inconsistent, it means that the thing is inconsistent."
I never said the island is drawn inconsistently. I'm saying everything on the panels is drawn inconsistently, and is therefore not to scale.

"When there are consistent showings of the fist being around the size of the island, the consistency of other things is hilariously useless"
Except Luffy's fist is also inconsistent in size as I've shown. In some shots is about as big as the island, in other shots it's clearly much smaller. EVERYTHING in these panels is inconsistent, and not just the dragons and Yamato. To say "Well, since it's consistently comparable to the island" is quite literally irrelevant, unless by this logic we now upscale Kaido and Momotsuke's sizes due to appearing as big as the fist.

https://imgur.io/a/dZvDmI9

The clash makes it clear that Luffy'a fist is around the size of Kaido, or else Kaido wouldn't be able to bite his entire fist. And Kaido is consistently not anywhere near the island's size except in these few NOT FOR SCALE chapters. So using extremely inconsistent panelling to say "Nu-huh Luffy is definitely meant to scale to the island." is a stretch at best.

 

[KingTempest]

"No, someone being inconsistent to an island doesn't mean the island is inconsistent, it means that the thing is inconsistent."
I never said the island is drawn inconsistently. I'm saying everything on the panels is drawn inconsistently, and is therefore not to scale.

"When there are consistent showings of the fist being around the size of the island, the consistency of other things is hilariously useless"
Except Luffy's fist is also inconsistent in size as I've shown. In some shots is about as big as the island, in other shots it's clearly much smaller. EVERYTHING in these panels is inconsistent, and not just the dragons and Yamato.

https://imgur.io/a/dZvDmI9

"Not to scale"

Damn near every scan you sent shows the fist to be around the size of the main skull if not a little smaller

The fist is consistently gargantuan

It's inconsistently portrayed cause Oda doesn't have a ruler when he draws everything, but it's consistently as big as a decent part of the island

Should the demon skull eye socket not scale to the skull in that panel cause Momo's inconsistent? Should the horn not scale to the other horn cause Momo's inconsistent

The argument is shit. All because 2 things aren't consistent in a frame, doesn't mean everything isn't

Momo and Yamato not being fit to scale on that doesn't mean that the fist isn't

Textbook association fallacy

 

[Thicc18]

"Damn near every scan you sent shows the fist to be around the size of the main skull if not a little smaller

The fist is consistently gargantuan"

What it shows is that Luffy's fist changes size heavily with each panel.

"It's inconsistently portrayed cause Oda doesn't have a ruler when he draws everything, but it's consistently as big as a decent part of the island"

You're literally admitting that the size is inconsistent. You know that right? We can use the same "He doesn't have a ruler" logic for the island.

"Should the demon skull eye socket not scale to the skull in that panel cause Momo's inconsistent? Should the horn not scale to the other horn cause Momo's inconsistent"

That's a strawman of my position. Nothing here is to scale. Kaido is not to scale. Momo is not to scale. Luffy's fist is clearly heavily changing size with each panel. So again, tell me why should we scale Luffy's fist to the island?

"The argument is shit. All because 2 things aren't consistent in a frame, doesn't mean everything isn't"

You've pretty much admitted that Luffy's fist is not consistent as well. The same fist Kaido, who is normally drawn MUCH smaller than the island, was able to fully bite, showing Kaido's jaw is about the same size when we exclude the flashy visual effects.

 

[KingTempest]

It can be inconsistent in exact size doesn't mean that it isn't consistently comparable to the island

And stop talking about Kaidou and Momonosuke. They have nothing to do with Bajrang Gun

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Yeah I disagree.

 

[Thicc18]

There's a difference between being inconsistent in exact size and shrinking by 90% between panels. There can be minor changes in size between panelling and that's fine. What we see with Luffy's fist is no longer just a minor difference. So yes. It's very clear that NOTHING here is meant to be scaled and nothing here has consistency.

They have a lot to do with it, considering the fact that Luffy's fist should be around the size of Kaido's jaw. Again, flashy visual effects aside and NOT TO SCALE panels aside, Luffy's fist is not that big.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Luffy's fist doesn't need to be the size of Kaidou's attack, we've seen Luffy have an attack bigger than his opponents and still clash with/overpower them.
Example: Final clash with Chinjao
Example 2: King Kong Gun

Like, the ENTIRE point of them moving Onigashima out of the way is because they didn't want a big ass island sized fist crashing down and killing everyone.
So I don't know why there's such a problem with Luffy's attack being bigger than Kaidou's or Onigashima because we've seen this happen before.

 

[Thicc18]

Except Luffy did not just clash with Kaido, Kaido straight up fit Luffy's entire fist in his jaw. So yes. We know that Luffy's fist is not so big without the flashy effects that aren't meant to scale.

To threaten the civilians on the island or to threaten to cause some level of damage to the island does not require Luffy's fist to be anywhere near as big as the island. Against Doflamingo Luffy was causing considerable damage to the enviroment with fists that weren't even that big. So this argument is not valid.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Then why not upscale Kaidou's size? We see that Zoan Kaidou isn't as big as the fist and that he has to amp his size and power to match said fist for a few seconds.
Not to mention the size of the fist got obscured the clash because of Kaidou's flames getting repelled and blocking the view.

 

[Thicc18]

Because Kaido normally isn't depicted anywhere as big as the Onigashima, and his flaming cloak is not much larger than his ordinary size as shown here.

 

[Eseseso]

Agree with OP FRA.

Good catch.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Because Kaido normally isn't depicted anywhere as big as the Onigashima, and his flaming cloak is not much larger than his ordinary size as shown here.

Eh, we still see the fist being comparable to the size of the island.
Kaidou's flame dragon being relative to the fist's size wouldn't really disprove anything.

 

[Thicc18]

Did you not read what I said? Kaido's flame dragon is not all that much larger than Kaido's body, so being able to fit Luffy's fist in his mouth is quite telling considering Kaido is more consistently shown being nowhere near as big as the island. To say "the fist is still shown being as big as the island" is quite literally going circular and ignoring the entire point.