One Piece downgrade thread

[Vzearr]

The explosion is a sign that the light has made contact with the ground. Thus, by the time the light made contact with the ground, Sanji had jumped that distance. Otherwise, Sanji would've gotten hit before he jumped

Are you joking? You would be assuming it just hit the ground which highballs it, we don't actually know when it hit the ground during Sanji's jump which is why the lowball is proposed. Unless you can prove it just hit the ground as Sanji completed his jump (which you can't, you're going off the personal feeling that it just hit the ground because an explosion that's already expanded multiple meters).

 

[SlendVeny]

The fact the explosion is that large means it hit the ground a while ago. Unless the explosions are mftl or something.

Pretty sure lasers are shown with big explosions instantly when they explode in OP, and they disappear very quickly iirc.

 

[Kachon123]

Unless you can prove it just hit the ground as Sanji completed his jump (which you can't, you're going off the personal feeling that it just hit the ground because an explosion that's already expanded multiple meters).

The sfx in the panel heavily points to the explosion going off and Sanji's jump reaching its peak occurring at the same time.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

The explosion is a sign that the light has made contact with the ground. Thus, by the time the light made contact with the ground, Sanji had jumped that distance. Otherwise, Sanji would've gotten hit before he jumped

The fact that the explosion hits the ground tells us that the beam travels to the ground. That means the light travels further than the distance we calculated. That's right, I also said there's no need to jump 6 meters when the beam hits the ground. He just had to jump to avoid being hit by the beam in that moment. After that, when the explosion happened, (This is outside the time frame we calculated based on the movement of light.) Sanji will be able to float up to a height of 6 meters, which is outside the time frame we calculated.

 

[Vzearr]

Is there an anime version of this feat?

 

[Kachon123]

That's right, I also said there's no need to jump 6 meters when the beam hits the ground

Queen shoots a barrage of beams in specific columns as depicted below:

In order to avoid being in the possible line of fire, it makes sense that Sanji would need to jump a height of 6 meters, even though all the beams would eventually hit the ground.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

The sfx in the panel heavily points to the explosion going off and Sanji's jump reaching its peak occurring at the same time.

No of course, you guys forgot that the time frame was calculated by how we calculated the movement of the first beam to reach Sanji's most recent position. The fact that it exploded means it was outside of our calculated time frame.

 

[Vzearr]

Queen shoots a barrage of beams in specific columns as depicted below:

In order to avoid being in the possible line of fire, it makes sense that Sanji would need to jump a height of 6 meters, even though all the beams would eventually hit the ground.

That upper line of fire is a whole 'nother timeframe.

 

[Kachon123]

No of course, you guys forgot that the time frame was calculated by how we calculated the movement of the first beam to reach Sanji's most recent position. The fact that it exploded means it was outside of our calculated time frame.

Regardless, we know for a fact that in order to avoid the beams, Sanji would need to be above Queen's line of fire, which we see is roughly equal to Queen's own height of 6.12 meters, so the 6.8 meter figure is consistent.

 

[Kachon123]

That upper line of fire is a whole nother timeframe.

Sparking Queen is a perfect replica of Ichiji's Sparking Valkyrie.

Sparking Valkyrie does not shoot just one laser, it shoots several beams at once within a line of fire. We see this with both Queen and Ichiji. The timeframe found was for the time it would take all the lasers that are positioned in front of the line of fire to reach Sanji. In order for Sanji to avoid getting hit by any of the lasers, he'd need to be above the line of fire, as if he was just 1 meter above the lowest laser, he'd get tagged by 5 more above him.

Because of this, KingTempest's calc is far better than Shadow_x007x's, which unnecessarily lowballs the distance Sanji jumped seemingly without fully understanding the context of the scene and how Queen's ability works.

 

[Vzearr]

it shoots several beams at once within a line of fire.

This is clearly wrong seeing as all of the beams are at different distances.

he'd need to be above the line of fire, as if he was just 1 meter above the lowest laser, he'd get tagged by 5 more above him.

Those lasers would be out of the timeframe calculated because they aren't the initial shot lasers.

 

[Kachon123]

This is clearly wrong seeing as all of the beams are at different distances.

My friend, that is literally how the attack works. We even see it 2 pages later.

Those lasers would be out of the timeframe calculated because they aren't the initial shot lasers.

The initial shot lasers would occupy the space inside of the line of fire. If Sanji only jumped halfway through the line of fire, he would've gotten hit by beams. Since he didn't we know for a fact that by the time the initial shot lasers reached his initial position, Sanji was already above their line of fire.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Are you joking? You would be assuming it just hit the ground which highballs it, we don't actually know when it hit the ground during Sanji's jump which is why the lowball is proposed. Unless you can prove it just hit the ground as Sanji completed his jump (which you can't, you're going off the personal feeling that it just hit the ground because an explosion that's already expanded multiple meters).

The sfx for the explosion literally comes up when Sanji reaches the apex of the jump. You just keep shouting "highball" this and "personal feelings" that without much substance, and it's frankly getting tiring seeing this deliberate attempt to paint the opposition as nonsensical

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Regardless, we know for a fact that in order to avoid the beams, Sanji would need to be above Queen's line of fire, which we see is roughly equal to Queen's own height of 6.12 meters, so the 6.8 meter figure is consistent.

Yes, he just has to move above Queen's line of fire as you said in the first picture. If you measure the distance accordingly, you will get the following result.
Scan
Sanji's height: 223 px = 1.8 m
Queen's firing line: 697 px = 5.62600896861 m
This is a distance that I consider acceptable because 6.8 meters is beyond the time frame we calculated from the light's movement. Even though the difference is only 1 m, it is worth changing the calculation to a more accurate level. (I would like to reiterate that the 6.8 meter distance that Sanji travels is beyond the time frame. He just had to move so as not to hit the Queen's line of fire that was pointing at him, and it shouldn't be any higher.)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I calculate success According to argument number 4 of this new thread.

One Piece - Sanji dodges the laser beams

vsbattles.fandom.com

yee I don't see how that is the actual timeframe at all, sanji moves in one linear motion to dodge all of the lasers not just one, so the actual timeframe would be where he's leg starts to appear which is a decrease in speed, signified by how it is stretching out, making it a blur to then a more visable sanji

Otherwise he would've already been hit by the lasers, and we see sanji doing only one motion for all of the lasers until he starts slowing down in the air which is how he then got caught after by an attack from queen

So the original Calc should be fine

 

[Vzearr]

My friend, that is literally how the attack works. We even see it 2 pages later.

The beams are at different distance, they physically can't have been shot at the same time.

The initial shot lasers would occupy the space inside of the line of fire. If Sanji only jumped halfway through the line of fire, he would've gotten hit by beams. Since he didn't we know for a fact that by the time the initial shot lasers reached his initial position, Sanji was already above their line of fire.

I don't think you guys understand, do you think we're saying he stopped after jumping the distance Shadow calced? No. He was still moving at fast speed, the distance calced is the initial distance he would of had to move the dodge the initial beams, the extra distance you guys are calculating would include the other beams shot which would require a different timeframe, so no he wouldn't have been hit.

 

[Kachon123]

Yes, he just has to move above Queen's line of fire as you said in the first picture. If you measure the distance accordingly, you will get the following result.
Scan
Sanji's height: 223 px = 1.8 m
Queen's firing line: 697 px = 5.62600896861 m
This is a distance that I consider acceptable because 6.8 meters is beyond the time frame we calculated from the light's movement. Even though the difference is only 1 m, it is worth changing the calculation to a more accurate level. (I would like to reiterate that the 6.8 meter distance that Sanji travels is beyond the time frame. He just had to move so as not to hit the Queen's line of fire that was pointing at him, and it shouldn't be any higher.)

Your pixel scaling is bad.

Sanji: 196.3 px | 1.8 m
Jump Distance: 729.8 px | 6.69 m

If you want to change the calc for a 0.2 meter difference, then sure, but for right now, KT's calc is by far the best.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Your pixel scaling is bad.

Sanji: 196.3 px | 1.8 m
Jump Distance: 729.8 px | 6.69 m

If you want to change the calc for a 0.2 meter difference, then sure, but for right now, KT's calc is by far the best.

Yes, I prefer your scans. I'll change it like this. And we also have a bit more discussion about the distance light travels. Did old calculations measure the distance from Queen to Sanji too much in 2D? I also tried using Pythagoras to make it look more 3D.

 

[Kachon123]

The beams are at different distance, they physically can't have been shot at the same time.

Just like how Ichiji and Queen's beams that are shot from their eyes can't physically been shot from behind and above his own head? Oh wait

I don't think you guys understand, do you think we're saying he stopped after jumping the distance Shadow calced? No. He was still moving at fast speed, the distance calced is the initial distance he would of had to move the dodge the initial beams, the extra distance you guys are calculating would include the other beams shot which would require a different timeframe, so no he wouldn't have been hit.

Like I said above, if you want to the calc to be changed to account for the <0.2 meter difference, then technically you can, but this is a very clear case of nitpicking.

 

[Vzearr]

Just like how Ichiji and Queen's beams that are shot from their eyes can't physically been shot from behind and above his own head? Oh wait

Dude, what are you talking about, you're contradicting the drawings, if they were shot at the same they wouldn't be at different distances.

 

[Mndks]

I agree with your kachon

 

[KLOL506]

Are you joking?

Highly suggest you stop with this dismissive attitude immediately. This isn't the first time you've done this.

You would be assuming it just hit the ground which highballs it, we don't actually know when it hit the ground during Sanji's jump which is why the lowball is proposed.

I'd highly suggest you didn't resort to BS headcanon and useless conjecture based on your personal beliefs, and actually bring hard evidence for whatever it is you're proposing. None of this "He only needs to move X amount to dodge" crap. No. BRING. ME. EVIDENCE THAT HE ACTUALLY MOVED THIS FAR.

Unless you can prove it just hit the ground as Sanji completed his jump (which you can't, you're going off the personal feeling that it just hit the ground because an explosion that's already expanded multiple meters).

Clover already addressed this in his comment, and I'd suggest you take it to heart: Drop this dismissiveness right now and provide evidence for your claims, or just don't make CRTs like this.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Could you guys take a look at my calculations again? I adjusted the distance the light travels to make it look more 3D.

One Piece - Sanji dodges the laser beams

vsbattles.fandom.com

I was able to use Sanji's original travel distance of 6.8 m, but that still made him a Relativistic+ is good in my calculations.

 

[KLOL506]

Could you guys take a look at my calculations again? I adjusted the distance the light travels to make it look more 3D.

One Piece - Sanji dodges the laser beams

vsbattles.fandom.com

I was able to use Sanji's original travel distance of 6.8 m, but that still made him a Relativistic+ is good in my calculations.

For scan 1:

1. Angle isn't skewed enough for ang-sizing to even be an option. A diagonal line alone should've sufficed.

2. I disagree with not using 6 meters for Sanji's jump in any scenario whatsoever based on Clover's reasonings.

Scan 2 is at too severe an angle and Sanji is already high up, which would further mess with the ang-sizing. This scan is bona-fide unusable to figure out distance IMHO.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I've gone through certain calcs pretty extensively so far, so what I'll do is (once I have the free time) go through all the remaining calcs and give my final thoughts on each one along with the ones I've already brought up. That will likely be my last response to this thread, because I'm tied up with other things

 

[Kachon123]

Scan 2 is at too severe an angle and Sanji is already high up, which would further mess with the ang-sizing. This scan is bona-fide unusable to figure out distance IMHO.

I was going to bring this up as well actually.

If we're not using that specific scan, the only way to calc this feat would just using Queen's height of 6.12 meters and KT's calced distance between Queen and Sanji of 5.8447058823529 meters.

It would get 1.05c. Barely a change from what we use for KT's calc. There's no point in scrapping his. All the complaints about it just seems like nitpicks that barely change the results.

 

[Vzearr]

Highly suggest you stop with this dismissive attitude immediately. This isn't the first time you've done this.

You're over-reacting.

I'd highly suggest you didn't resort to BS headcanon and useless conjecture based on your personal beliefs, and actually bring hard evidence for whatever it is you're proposing. None of this "He only needs to move X amount to dodge" crap. No. BRING. ME. EVIDENCE THAT HE ACTUALLY MOVED THIS FAR.

What evidence do you need? Provide evidence Sanji moved the full distance before the beam landed on his original position, you can't.

Clover already addressed this in his comment, and I'd suggest you take it to heart: Drop this dismissiveness right now and provide evidence for your claims, or just don't make CRTs like this.

What SFX?!!? The ******* "DA DA" ?! How is that evidence? Seriously.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

1. Angle isn't skewed enough for ang-sizing to even be an option. A diagonal line alone should've sufficed.

I use ang-sizing to find the distance using the depth axis of the image. And I used the contralateral line as the distance along the x-axis. When I used the Pythagorean formula, we got the distance from the Queen's feet to Sanji's feet. After that, I used Queen's height, because the Queen was looking down and firing the beam. Enter Sanji, if you say just the opposite angle is enough. I think we had to use Pythagoras because the Queen lowered her head and fired a beam at Sanji anyway, so that gives us The distance that light travels:

• c = √((5.8447058823529^2)+(6.12^2))
• c = 8.46256384621 m

 

[Shadow_x007x]

2. I disagree with not using 6 meters for Sanji's jump in any scenario whatsoever based on Clover's reasonings.

ok, most people seem to think so. So I'll do that.

 

[KLOL506]

You're over-reacting.

No I'm not. This is perfectly in line with what you've been doing for the last couple of weeks.

What evidence do you need? Provide evidence Sanji moved the full distance before the beam landed on his original position, you can't.

Clover already did. That and if he didn't jump the explosion would propel him instead and it'd enter the realm of "Not a speed feat, potentially aim-dodging, can't be calc'd".

What SFX?!!? The ******* "DA DA" ?! How is that evidence? Seriously.

Okay I think a strong warning is in order for this one.

@Planck69

 

[KLOL506]

I use ang-sizing to find the distance using the depth axis of the image. And I used the contralateral line as the distance along the x-axis. When I used the Pythagorean formula, we got the distance from the Queen's feet to Sanji's feet. After that, I used Queen's height, because the Queen was looking down and firing the beam. Enter Sanji, if you say just the opposite angle is enough. I think we had to use Pythagoras because the Queen lowered her head and fired a beam at Sanji anyway, so that gives us The distance that light travels:

• c = √((5.8447058823529^2)+(6.12^2))
• c = 8.46256384621 m

Again, it isn't that extreme bruv, a simple diagonal line to find the distance would've sufficed.

 

[Vzearr]

Clover already did.

What SFX?!!? The ******* "DA DA" ?! How is that evidence? Seriously.

if he didn't jump the explosion would propel him instead

I'm not saying he didn't jump wtf?

 

[CloverDragon03]

What SFX?!!? The ******* "DA DA" ?! How is that evidence? Seriously.

Well no, the "Da Da" is the rapid-fire light. The "Da Doom" is the explosion going off from the light making contact with the ground, which happens at the same time as Sanji reaches the apex of the jump

Just wanted to clarify that before I do anything else

 

[KLOL506]

I'm not saying he didn't jump wtf?

Read this:

By that logic, we'd have to assume Sanji sat there and let himself get hit, and then jumped away which makes no sense. My stance remains unchanged

The explosion is a sign that the light has made contact with the ground. Thus, by the time the light made contact with the ground, Sanji had jumped that distance. Otherwise, Sanji would've gotten hit before he jumped

If he gets hit, it's not even a feat to begin with and was never calculable to start.

 

[Vzearr]

Well no, the "Da Da" is the rapid-fire light. The "Da Doom" is the explosion going off, which happens at the same time as Sanji reaches the apex of the jump

That would then be the sound happening at the same time Sanji reaches the apex of his jump. Which would be completely different.

 

[CloverDragon03]

That would then be the sound happening at the same time Sanji reaches the apex of his jump. Which would be completely different.

That's my point exactly. By the time the light makes contact with the ground to trigger that, Sanji reaches the apex of his jump

I really need to stop engaging after saying I won't having already my point. I'm so impulsive it hurts

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Again, it isn't that extreme bruv, a simple diagonal line to find the distance would've sufficed.

Wouldn't that give us a distance that light travels that is too low? I think a thread has already been discussed about this. We should make the values as accurate as possible.

 

[KLOL506]

Wouldn't that give us a distance that light travels that is too low? I think a thread has already been discussed about this. We should make the values as accurate as possible.

Why is the value being low suddenly a problem? Also, the more accurate way would be to simply draw a line given that the depth difference and angle difference is not remotely as extreme as you make it out to be. At this point it isn't accuracy, it's just needless nitpicking and pedantry.

 

[Kachon123]

Feat 2:
1. Small complaint: It doesn't take a genius to realise the distance between Sanji and Queen is larger then 50cm.
2. The distance moved is a large highball without any evidence? Its literally "I think this happened so it happened". We don't know when nor how Sanji moved its as simple as that, lowballing it would be better, unless the anime provides evidence behind Sanji moving 2.82743338823 meters.

I hope you realize that KingTempest assuming that Queen fired the beams when Sanji's feet hit the ground is already a lowball right?

Adding the distance Sanji would've moved when repositioning himself to jump out the way would produce higher results, although on this topic, I noticed that all KingTempest calced was Sanji rotating his body 90º and not him actually jumping away from the lasers.

Here's a better version:

Queen's Nose: 175 px | 0.34971428571429 m
Laser Width: 16 px | 0.031973877551013 m

Laser Width: 16.6 px | 0.031973877551013 m
Explosion Radius: 642.8 px | 1.2381209933604 m

Queen was aiming for Sanji so that means that in order for him to avoid being hit by the explosions, he had to have moved a distance at least as big as the radius of said explosions

Sanji repositioning and rotating his body (~90º for repositioning + an additional ~90º for rotating his body during the jump): 1.8 * 180 * pi/180 = 5.65486678 m

Total Sanji Movement: 5.65486678 m
Speed: 5.65486678/0.53047739757 = 10.659958c

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Why is the value being low suddenly a problem? Also, the more accurate way would be to draw a line given that the depth difference and angle difference is not remotely as extreme as you make it out to be. At this point it isn't accuracy, it's just needless nitpicking and pedantry.

Ok, agreed to that.