speedster352
He/Him- 17,544
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Tosen fra
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I don't see how kuzan can neg kamui, obito also would totally use mind control genjustu as a wincon, he was mind controlling yagura for years. And let's not forget that he was mind controling the 9 tails when he fought minato when he was 13. All it takes is eye contact with kuzan and he's doneVoting Kuzan. His flash freeze takes them both out, and he can neg Kamui with Buso, still fight perfectly fine in Tosen’s Bankai with Kenbun, and can wake up from any Genjutsu as long as it isn’t mind control, which isn’t even IC for Obito to even use in a combat scenario.
What are arc reasons again? Can I have a quick summary?Voting Tosen for Arc Reasons.
What are arc reasons again? Can I have a quick summary?
Neither Aokiji nor Obito have resistance to sleep manip on their profiles. Tosen has AOE sleep manip with his Shikai, which is a move he has opened with in character in the key being used. And before someone says “Aokiji covers his ears with ice or his hands cuz he kenbuns it”, yeah no, neither ice nor your hand are good insulators, especially for loud sharp sounds. Also, if Tōsen puts either of them in his Bankai it’s over, since their only available sense will be touch. Using the Sharingan and Kenbun to see nothing but pitch black will be real nice.
So I’m voting Tosen via his Shikai and Bankai hax, his enhanced mobility with Shunpo, and his general bloodlusted in character behavior.
What's the theme? Best fried egg maker?Just wait until the Itachi match up, they'll be eating.
You say that till you throw them a Bleach character.Just wait until the Itachi match up, they'll be eating.
He's going to wreck Shinji and Kuma in the fake villains tournament tbh.You say that till you throw them a Bleach character.
Itachi paints his nails, we'll be good.He's going to wreck Shinji and Kuma in the fake villains tournament tbh.
Don't agree, and I'll explain why.Kuzan definitely had better arguments and counterpoints.
Tousen's zanpakuto would be instantly frozen upon touching Aokiji's body - Aokiji could simply reshape himself to evade any physical attacks, as he did against WB. Even though Tousen can hit souls with casual sword attacks, he wouldn't be hitting Kuzan here and any attempt to do so could leave him disarmed.
So about Bankai and Shikai. At first Aokiji's Observation Haki would be enough to alert him of the future intentions of Tousen's movements, and what he would do (this is a basic property of kenbunshoku), so, before Tousen used the shikai, Kuzan could simply assume his elemental form, or destroy his ears so he wouldn't hear the noise and fall asleep, precog would give him all the time in the world to do that. Tousen's bankai, if it hits Kuzan, it can even take away his senses, but it wouldn't nullify haki entirely, Haki is not a sense in itself, but a distinct power inherent in every human being, Tousen could at most nulls the extrasensory perception ability of Haki for example, but Aokiji would still be able to precog, IR and so. However, worst of all is that by the SBA, Tousen would not even have the distance to be able to use these two powers in the confrontation, since Kuzan outranges.
Why?one of those blades will eventually hit Kuzan because of the sheer amount of objects thrown at him
Because I don't see Kuzan being capable of constantly freezing the blades while having to deal with Obito and the other actions of Tosen over the span of multiple hours?Why?
...he can literally either think or do a hand movement and freeze all of them. From 23 Kilometers out. I'd be more worried about if Tosen can keep that shit up for as long as Kuzan can... spoiler alert, Kuzan kept fighting despite taking injuries for 10 days against his near-equal.I didn't say that Kuzan can't freeze all of them, I'm saying the likelihood of Kuzan continually freezing all of them over the span of hours upon hours is unlikely. Two massively different assertions.
Yes, I know that Kuzan has massive AOE with his freezing, still doesn't negate the argument I proposed because my argument wasn't an argument against his AOE, but rather an argument against his consistency.
Okay so he makes a hand movement and puts Obito into a block of ice. He can also do that to Tosen. Especially of Tosen gets close to him since Kuzan is tall as all **** and as such has the range advantageBecause I don't see Kuzan being capable of constantly freezing the blades while having to deal with Obito and the other actions of Tosen?
Kuzan can flash freeze everything within over 50+ km. I severely doubt Shunpo would help. Especially considering this is a starting move for Kuzan.Also in regards to the range disparity between the two, Tosen has ways to decrease that disparity through flight and Shunpo, he could dodge the ice through both abilities as well. He could also just teleport to his location with Sentan Hakuja if needed.
Kuzan was able to fight for 10 days without rest against the most aggressive fighter in the verse, who has superior AP, a large elemental advantage, and comparable other stats. He can definitely freeze all of these.Because I don't see Kuzan being capable of constantly freezing the blades while having to deal with Obito and the other actions of Tosen over the span of multiple hours?
The sleep manipulation is useless, as Kenbun has been shown on several occasions to wake the user up while they’re unconscious. (Zoro with Kaku, Sanji with Luffy, Zoro with Hody, etc.)
Technically the superior AP is dura neg but regardlessKuzan was able to fight for 10 days without rest against the most aggressive fighter in the verse, who has superior AP, a large elemental advantage, and comparable other stats. He can definitely freeze all of these.
Or just block them with Buso Emission.
Sure, he could freeze them, and continually keep freezing them for an unknown period of time. It wouldn't debunk the argument I proposed in my post though because I never discredited that capability. I just don't believe he could always keep doing it for over hours upon hours because of all the other shit happening in this fight. It isn't just Tosen vs Kuzan, it also includes Obito who has shit which could heavily affect Kuzan, like Genjutsu, which wouldn't affect Tosen because of his blindness....he can literally either think or do a hand movement and freeze all of them. From 23 Kilometers out. I'd be more worried about if Tosen can keep that shit up for as long as Kuzan can... spoiler alert, Kuzan kept fighting despite taking injuries for 10 days against his near-equal.
Obito has passive intangibility through Kamui, he isn't putting Obito in a block of ice that easily. He could try to do that against Tosen, don't believe it would work that well because of the whole Shunpo shit.Okay so he makes a hand movement and puts Obito into a block of ice. He can also do that to Tosen. Especially of Tosen gets close to him since Kuzan is tall as all **** and as such has the range advantage
How high does he flash freeze, since Tosen will most likely be in the air, not on the ground.Kuzan can flash freeze everything within over 50+ km. I severely doubt Shunpo would help. Especially considering this is a starting move for Kuzan.
As for Sentan Hakuja, Kenbun would allow Kuzan to know where Tosen would pop up before he even uses the attack, which gives him time to freeze the air to levels where if Tosen stands in it, he’d get frozen instantly.
It can reach above extremely tall mountains that peak above other ones in the area.How high does he flash freeze, since Tosen will most likely be in the air, not on the ground.
Can you provide scans of this?It can reach above extremely tall mountains that peak above other ones in the area.
Considering how easy it is for Kuzan to just **** the entire battlefield and then some some danmaku and some change won't be very spooky, plus, that relies on Obito actually, ya know, USING his Genjutsu. I'm sorry but if he's only ever used the Mind Control variant of it on person, I'm not buying him ever dropping it here.Sure, he could freeze them, and continually keep freezing them for an unknown period of time. It wouldn't debunk the argument I proposed in my post though because I never discredited that capability. I just don't believe he could always keep doing it for over hours upon hours because of all the other shit happening in this fight. It isn't just Tosen vs Kuzan, it also includes Obito who has shit which could heavily affect Kuzan, like Genjutsu.
Cool stamina feat for Kuzan, good I'm not arguing the fight will take days on end, but just hours. Which is completely in the capabilities of Tosen to fight at.
Obito has passive intangibility through Kamui, he isn't putting Obito in a block of ice that easily. He could try to do that against Tosen, don't believe it would work at well because of the whole Shunpo shit.
How high does he flash freeze, since Tosen will most likely be in the air, not on the ground.
Sure.
Alright, do you have evidence that this was a casual use of Kuzan's Ice Manipulation, instead of an action which required great effort and time from Kuzan. I'm asking because nothing in either scan actually proves this was a casual feat from Kuzan.
Kuzan
Have you SEEN how often this MFer naps?serious
This was a result of Aokiji simply being there fighting.Alright, do you have evidence that this was a casual use of Kuzan's Ice Manipulation, instead of an action which required great effort and time from Kuzan. I'm asking because nothing in either scan actually proves this was a casual feat from Kuzan.
why do yall keep saying he only used mind control on one person... He used it on the 9 tails when he was 13 + yagura for yearsConsidering how easy it is for Kuzan to just **** the entire battlefield and then some some danmaku and some change won't be very spooky, plus, that relies on Obito actually, ya know, USING his Genjutsu. I'm sorry but if he's only ever used the Mind Control variant of it on person, I'm not buying him ever dropping it here.
Okay, and? Was that ever in combat or did he just say "**** it" and just did it randomly? There's a major differencewhy do yall keep saying he only used mind control on one person... He used it on the 9 tails when he was 13 + yagura for years