Demon Slayer (Kimetsu no Yaiba) - Breath of Discussion: 5th Form

[Nehz_XZX]

Published the 8-C calc which scales to Lower Moons in preparation for the CRT.

Enmu manga flesh expansion KE calc can get like 9-A+, but it is troublesome to scale and properly not worth the effort. The anime/movie flesh pillars likely gets 8-C but the sequence of events got rearranged a bit so I am not sure we can use it.

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We got a legendary episode for the anime history books today.

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Some low-tier demons are able to shapeshift:

And Rui forced his family to assume a spider-like form:

But since it is something that requires effort from most demons and most of them don't seem to be good at it, maybe we can go with Limited Shapeshifting for the demons not shown proficient in it.

Okay, that's interesting to know.

Okay, I'll be watching that episode later.

Limited Shapeshifting might actually be alright in that case. Would Rui stealing the intelligence of other demons give him an ability or power?

 

[Elizhaa]

I guess Limited Shapeshifting could work. In Rui's case, it could be a form of memory manipulation

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I guess Limited Shapeshifting could work. In Rui's case, it could be a form of memory manipulation

Memory Manipulation? Sounds a bit speculative to me. Are you imagining this as him removing memories that relate to knowledge? I kind of figured that this would be closer to Mind Manipulation since intellect is a function of the mind.

 

[Elizhaa]

Memory manipulation I saw associated with knowledge before; looking back, I guess your points make more sense; it is likely Mind Manipulation.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Does anyone have any particular thoughts about the last attack Gyutaro did in the latest episode? It looks different from the manga but also appears larger in scale to me.

 

[Elizhaa]

Does anyone have any particular thoughts about the last attack Gyutaro did in the latest episode? It looks different from the manga but also appears larger in scale to me.

I guess yes to the attack looking larger. The original feat seems a bit smaller; I think at least 2 houses look destroyed.

 

[Elixirr]

But since it is something that requires effort from most demons and most of them don't seem to be good at it, maybe we can go with Limited Shapeshifting for the demons not shown proficient in it.

Looks good to me

Does anyone have any particular thoughts about the last attack Gyutaro did in the latest episode? It looks different from the manga but also appears larger in scale to me.

I dont think we have any way of determining how big the attack was and how much damage it did exactly, so it might be kinda difficult to calc

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I dont think we have any way of determining how big the attack was and how much damage it did exactly, so it might be kinda difficult to calc

We will probably see more of the aftermath in the next episode, so that might help.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

It seems that the big building in the background corresponds to the one shown in the ending.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

It seems that the big building in the background corresponds to the one shown in the ending.

It does seem like as if a number of buildings got destroyed.

 

[Elizhaa]

Here is Kimetsu no Yaiba Fanbook Two Taisho Rumors: Demons. It seems like Rui was weakened in his fight and his true rank could have been Lower Moon 1 or 2.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Here is Kimetsu no Yaiba Fanbook Two Taisho Rumors: Demons. It seems like Rui was weakened in his fight and his true rank could have been Lower Moon 1 or 2.

That fits with what the trivia on the Kimetsu no Yaiba Wiki says about Rui. I guess we can give Rui the Creation of spiders on top of the other powers he has. The fanbook saying that Rui's family wouldn't have been able to use their Blood Demon Arts without him alive makes me wonder if all of their abilities actually belonged to a full power Rui. The vast majority of their physical strength probably belonged to Rui as well given that he strengthened them with his blood.

 

[Elizhaa]

I largely agree I could at least see Rui possibly having the Spider abilities at full power; Currently, Rui just have power bestowal.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I largely agree I could at least see Rui possibly having the Spider abilities at full power; Currently, Rui just have power bestowal.

I guess that would be a second key for Rui. There is also the fact that he could have recovered the power that he shared, so that would need to be noted on his profile as well.

 

[Elizhaa]

Seems fine.

 

[Elizhaa]

I checked; In chapter 41, one of the spider demons stated that Rui has all the abilities which he split among his spider family. I think it is more concrete full power Rui would have all spider abilities now.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I checked; In chapter 41, one of the spider demons stated that Rui has all the abilities which he split among his spider family. I think it is more concrete full power Rui would have all spider abilities now.

Okay, that should be alright like that then. It's perfectly possible that this specific statement could be translated differently but it is in line with the fanbook.

 

[Elizhaa]

It seems like statements roughly say the same things in the raws.
Edit: A verified translation roughly said the same thing.

By the way, I found the Fanbooks raws on Reddit:

• fanbook1:
• fanbook2:

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I kind of wanted to know; does anyone know what is the reference for this scan?
Edit: Nevermind, I got the answer.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Does anyone happen to have the scan where Zenitsu states that his power correlates with his speed? I feel like as if that should be linked on his profile since it's part of Attack Potency justification and the reason for one of the major calculations of the verse.

 

[Elizhaa]

The closest I saw is this scan; though, if I found it I will post it.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

There is a clearer scan in the final battle (Chapter 198), where Zenitsu blames his inability to inflict non-shallow cuts on him being too slow.

Rui getting an additional key is pretty cool.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

The closest I saw is this scan; though, if I found it I will post it.

I recall that the statement was from the battle against Muzan with Zenitsu saying that his next attack would be the last one he could unleash at his full power, so I think it's probably this page.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

There is a clearer scan in the final battle (Chapter 198), where Zenitsu blames his inability to inflict non-shallow cuts on him being too slow.

Rui getting an additional key is pretty cool.

Yeah, the "I'm too slow" at the end of the second panel is quite good.

Zenitsu describing how Breath of Thunder focuses on the legs and how it relates to the fast dash he makes for the First Form helps as well in my opinion.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I've added the links about Zenitsu being able to only unleash one more attack without losing any power due to one his legs being dead and Zenitsu's attack being too shallow as a result of him being too slow to his profile.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

It seems like as if Gyutaro's attack encompassed a pretty large area considering how everything that is shown in the aftermath is in shambles. That fits with how Tanjiro could go around with Nezuko for some time and that Daki and Gyutaro could argue with other out of earshot.

 

[Kin201]

Massively Hypersonic+ (Superior to Zenitsu, who could do this)

Does anyone know why all Pillars scale above Zenitsu in speed? I think they are certainly more powerful, but not necessarily faster than him. However I think they are not that much slower than him either.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Does anyone know why all Pillars scale above Zenitsu in speed? I think they are certainly more powerful, but not necessarily faster than him. However I think they are not that much slower than him either.

Well, all of the Pillars, who fought in the Infinity Fortress, fought opponents that are stronger than an inexperienced Upper Moon 6 like Kaigaku would be, so I can see them being faster than Zenitsu especially with the Demon Slayer Mark. I don't know the exact reasoning that led to them scaling like this though.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Wasn't Kaigaku practically blitzed by this? So even if they upscale from Kaigaku, the upper moon would either just upscale from his speed, or scale to their feats or scaling feats.

I honestly wanna know why they're upscaling from Zenitsu when speed is his forte.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Wasn't Kaigaku practically blitzed by this? So even if they upscale from Kaigaku, the upper moon would either just upscale from his speed, or scale to their feats or scaling feats.

I honestly wanna know why they're upscaling from Zenitsu when speed is his forte.

I heavily doubt that the likes of Muzan, Kokushibo, Doma and Akaza are slower than Zenitsu given what it took to beat them.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

That's an argument of incredulity, which this site isn't about.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Like it's perfectly fine with them upscaling from Zenitsu, but only through feats, scaling, and definitive statements, not through should be's.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

That's an argument of incredulity, which this site isn't about.

That's why I referred to the things that it took to beat them. These things are quite extensive for each one of them and I can go into more details for each case as well:

• Muzan: There were four drugs from Tamayo that massively weakened him, he fought against the five surviving and still active Pillars which had their Demon Slayer Marks unlocked with Inosuke, Zenitsu, Kanao and Tanjiro joining in later and he still ultimately died to the rising sun which he could have escaped from if it wasn't for the efforts of the entire rest of the Demon Slayer Corps on top of the people that were already fighting him. It's also worth noting that Giyu, Obanai, Sanemi, Gyomei and Tanjiro had Bright Red Nichirin Blades and that Obanai, Gyomei and Tanjiro had access to the Transparent World. There is also Tanjiro mastering the Breath of the Sun and therefore becoming superior to when he fought Akaza.
• Kokushibo: Fought against Muichiro, Genya, Sanemi and Gyomei with Muichiro, Sanemi and Gyomei having Demon Slayer Marks and Genya having a boost from eating a flesh blade piece from Kokushibo which caused him to develop a Blood Demon Art. Muichiro, Sanemi and Gyomei all had Bright Red Nichirin Blades and Muichiro and Gyomei had access to the Transparent World. This is also the guy who terrified Kaigaku into becoming a demon in the first place and Kaigaku obviously still considers Kokushibo to be overwhelmingly strong after becoming a demon, so there is quite a big difference between them.
• Doma: Doma was blitzing Shinobu, Kanao and Inosuke and only got taken down due to taking in Shinobu's entire body's worth of poison which wouldn't have worked if he didn't play around too much. Shinobu's entire body being poisonous was the result of an entire year of preparation and she informed Kanao about this to ensure the defeat of Doma on top of warning Kanao with hand signals while she was being absorbed by Doma. You also have to consider that he is superior to Akaza.
• Akaza: Akaza was causing massive trouble to Giyu and Tanjiro despite both having awakened their Demon Slayer Marks and it took Tanjiro gaining access to the Transparent World and subsequently beheading Akaza and Akaza remembering his past and deciding that he wanted to die, which caused him to attack himself and force his body to stop regenerating, for Akaza to die.

It's worth noting in that context that Demon Slayer Marks increase all of the physical capabilities including speed and that Transparent World allows you to view everything in slow-motion and further boosts your speed. That's what Upper Moon 1 - 3 and Muzan were up against and they were still superior to each and every individual opponent they faced and wouldn't have been defeated in a one-versus-one-fight.

 

[Catzlaflame]

god I felt my bones literally tingling during this scene…can already tell this guy boutta be one cold mf.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

can already tell this guy boutta be one cold mf.

Hehehehehehehe, the irony of those choice of words

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Someone once posted a running speed ranking of the Pillars from the author in a CRT I've made. The list has issues like that it seems to be purely about running speed without saying anything about the length that was run or what the running course looked like. The descriptions for Mitsuri, Muichiro and Obanai sound like as if they had factors that impeded them. Because of these things I don't think that it could be used to scale Pillars above other Pillars in terms of speed. But I do think that it might be usable for scaling Tengen and Muichiro just outright to Massively Hypersonic+ since this indicates that the author doesn't think of them as much slower than the other Pillars and there already is a comparison between Mitsuri and Tengen that is used for the current speed scaling.

 

[Elizhaa]

But I do think that it might be usable for scaling Tengen and Muichiro just outright to Massively Hypersonic+ since this indicates that the author doesn't think of them as much slower than the other Pillars and there already is a comparison between Mitsuri and Tengen that is used for the current speed scaling.

I think the scaling could work.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Agree with the speed scaling.

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For Demon Enhanced Senses, Gyutaro was able to hear Tengen's heart stop, and Tengen used this to trick him:

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For Gyutaro's final BDA, we could try a calc based on destruction, or a calc based on rotation speed. Both should give good result. The biggest challenge is in estimating the size.

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Using the square cube law for the giant demon fish can potentially allow 8-C KE calcs:

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Agree with the speed scaling.

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For Demon Enhanced Senses, Gyutaro was able to hear Tengen's heart stop, and Tengen used this to trick him:

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For Gyutaro's final BDA, we could try a calc based on destruction, or a calc based on rotation speed. Both should give good result. The biggest challenge is in estimating the size.

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Using the square cube law for the giant demon fish can potentially allow 8-C KE calcs:

That's nice to hear.

It does seem like as if I overlooked that but Gyutaro should indeed have Enhanced Hearing on top of his other Enhanced Senses feats and statements.

Yeah, I've figured already at the end of episode 10 that this would get good results if it gets calculated.

Getting a feat for Gyokko sounds nice.

 

[Elizhaa]

Neat foundings. Gyokko also looks to have absorption.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Neat foundings. Gyokko also looks to have absorption.

It seems as if I have overlooked that when making Gyokko's profile. That reminds me of Kokushibo and Doma having Absorption, is there evidence for all Upper Moons having Absorption?